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Should the AFL allow Essendon to play if charged with doping ?

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Baldur said:
Yep, I spent a couple minutes of thinking about the worst case scenario. Therefore my worst case is predictable, forseeable, with very little effort. The thing about negligence cases is proving the bad event was predictable, even if not likely and bad enough that a certain action should have been taken. If the AFL allows them to play, they are negligent.
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I don't think you have to wait every long for a player to call a bombers player a junkie most likely this Friday mighty mouse will be in someone's ear. He shits alot of players.
 
BigJoeD said:
I am not suggesting anything other than players are instructed to consult the club doctor prior to putting anything in their bodies. I am also suggesting that the players trust the doctors implicitly.

FWIW, I feel the timing of Reid's induction is absolutely disgraceful
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But Joe, what I would like to clarify is; if Essendon have been found to have taken nasty things. And the players in your opinion did all that they should to ensure they didn't take nasty things. Well then someone is responsible for the players taking nasty things, if it is the responsibility of the Club Doctor to make sure the players don't take nasty things. Then it would stand to reason that the Club Doctor is at fault. Or do you think that maybe certain people at the club controlled a situation so the Club Doctor couldn't correctly perform his duties and maybe they are also at fault.........but who would do that and why?

So in summary, if Essendon players did take nasty things and the players are not at fault for taking nasty things. Then someone is responsible for the players taking nasty things. But who.........
 
BigJoeD said:
I am not suggesting anything other than players are instructed to consult the club doctor prior to putting anything in their bodies. I am also suggesting that the players trust the doctors implicitly.

FWIW, I feel the timing of Reid's induction is absolutely disgraceful
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I congratulate you on this, Reid is as much to blame as the golden one by his inaction.
 

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BigJoeD said:
Players are told to consult the club doctor re supplements, injections, whatever, amirite Rocky?
Hindsight is always 20/20 is it not?
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If 40 players get show cause notices as expected, where does this leave Doc Reid and his current role at the club?
 
However, the Doc had no idea it was happening, and nor did he know what the drugs injected that were "approved by the doc" were. Kind of hurts the defence that the Doc said it was ok...
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For all the players know, Doc did say it was ok. I don't think they expected Dank to be possibly pulling a dirty.

It blows me away that not a single person thought "this is unusual" and looked further. It's the kind of thing that someone complicit would do.
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OK, let's just assume that the players could tell that multiple trusted employees at their club were deceiving them, and decided to ask ASADA about the substances they were receiving.

They ask about AOD: well, ASADA didn't even know what its status was at the time, so I doubt they'd get a clear response there (doctors couldn't get a clear response so I doubt the players know what was going on)

They ask about Thymosin.: "there's a banned version, and a version that isn't banned"... "Danky, which version of Thymosin are you using?".... "the good one".
 
BigJoeD said:
I've got nothing? You responded with a rant about players not meaning what they say - 'the players are shielding their knowledge from the media'.

I actually genuinely laughed at your feeble response :thumbsu:
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You think that was a rant?

That's the funny part.
 
Cronos said:
If my six figure income depended on it, and my only defence is that the Doc said it was ok, then yes, I'd check with my club doctor at the absolute minimum.

At least one other that allowed it to happen got a contract extension, and a free study trip while being paid to not do his job.


However, the Doc had no idea it was happening, and nor did he know what the drugs injected that were "approved by the doc" were. Kind of hurts the defence that the Doc said it was ok...


It blows me away that not a single person thought "this is unusual" and looked further. It's the kind of thing that someone complicit would do.
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your "six figure income"?

Oh wow :D
 
Jobe Watson said:
The players requested the consent forms.


Is that how it works is it?

The media attention wouldn't have been any worse had they just confessed to knowingly cheating?

Do you think any player at any club would run to their club doctor if their own sports scientist, an employee of the club and someone they trusted was telling them the injections were safe and legal and, possibly, had been ticked off by the doctor?

That letter shows the breakdown in communication between Dank and Doc Reid, and how much of a free reign Dank had. Don't worry, the people who allowed that to happen (Robinson, Hamilton, Robson) are already gone.


That "off-site clinic" was across the road from Windy Hill. And it would be almost impossible for Doc Reid to be there on every occasion... he has a job and a life outside the football club.

They trusted a fellow EFC employee, someone they believed was an ethical, responsible, trained expert to act in their best interests. As any player would.
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BigJoeD said:
I am not suggesting anything other than players are instructed to consult the club doctor prior to putting anything in their bodies. I am also suggesting that the players trust the doctors implicitly.

FWIW, I feel the timing of Reid's induction is absolutely disgraceful
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I do feel sorry for you guys, as this is will be impacting multiple seasons (2012-16) and possibly 2017 depending how long your club decides to string it out for

Ahmed Saad gets 18 months for not realising that what he took was ok for 6 days of the week but not on match day and ASADA is appealing the 18 month ban as too lenient

Seriously what do you think ASADA and WADA are making of a club endorsed doping regime???
 
I Rock said:
But Joe, what I would like to clarify is; if Essendon have been found to have taken nasty things. And the players in your opinion did all that they should to ensure they didn't take nasty things. Well then someone is responsible for the players taking nasty things, if it is the responsibility of the Club Doctor to make sure the players don't take nasty things. Then it would stand to reason that the Club Doctor is at fault. Or do you think that maybe certain people at the club controlled a situation so the Club Doctor couldn't correctly perform his duties and maybe they are also at fault.........but who would do that and why?

So in summary, if Essendon players did take nasty things and the players are not at fault for taking nasty things. Then someone is responsible for the players taking nasty things. But who.........
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A number of key figures have already gone.

I have been unequivocal in my position regarding Hird (much to the chagrin of the majority of my EFC contempories) as much for his behaviour last year as anything else.

Should the bans come, as now look more likely, all remaining figures (Reid, Thompson et al) surely must go IMO.

But I think you know that ;)
 

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Lance Uppercut said:
Haha no I'm not the one trying to bignote myself on an internet forum with the size of my salary :D
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Just in case you hadn't noticed Lance, and I know it may surprise you, but I'm not an AFL footballer. I wasn't talking about my salary, but the hypothetical "if I was in this position".
 
BigJoeD said:
A number of key figures have already gone.

I have been unequivocal in my position regarding Hird (much to the chagrin of the majority of my EFC contempories) as much for his behaviour last year as anything else.

Should the bans come, as now look more likely, all remaining figures (Reid, Thompson et al) surely must go IMO.

But I think you know that ;)
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The Misses knows I love her, she still likes to hear me say it every now and then.......;)
 
Cronos said:
Just in case you hadn't noticed Lance, and I know it may surprise you, but I'm not an AFL footballer. I wasn't talking about my salary, but the hypothetical "if I was in this position".
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haha ah ok, in that case I did completely misread it, and I apologise and take it back.

My bad.
 

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vjknight said:
the only question at this point would be 'how does the public react to essendon players taking the field after IN's issued' ?
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Same way they have with unproven accusations?
 
Echols said:
LOL. Of course he did. He also knew that Nich Riewoldt was having the same treatment.

There was no veil of secrecy, unlike Essendon's daily stomach injections.
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Guerra was quoted and had NFI what he was injected with.

Faaaaaaaaaail.
 
vjknight said:
no - id assume the fence sitters (i'll wait to see what asada say) will open up with 'considered opinions' too.
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Reality is, it is ONLY Essendon fans that matter - Christ we've seen that this year.

So only the reaction of that fan base that will dictate any change in 'acceptance' to players on the field.
 

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Should the AFL allow Essendon to play if charged with doping ?


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