Analysis Should we be pursuing a secondary market post-Hobart? If yes, then where?

[Cunnington Cartel]

It’s likely that Tassie will be issued with the 19th AFL licence when the new stadium funding is sorted out in Hobart. After 25 years of selling home games to various locations, this will leave us at an interesting juncture.

If we look at the experiences of other clubs and potential future secondary markets, then there are many factors that need to be considered so the club can select the best pathway forward for our stability, profitability and on-field performance. Would love to hear the ideas and opinions of other North supporters on this issue. Here are mine so far in regards to 5 options:

1. 11 home games in Melbourne (e.g. St Kilda)

+ Melbourne-based members can attend more home games, eliminate the potential for relocation rumours, more efforts can be focused towards building support and membership in key growth areas of Northern Melbourne and also within specific migrant communities, potentially secure our future as a Melbourne-based club.

- missing out on revenue provided from secondary market, removing the ability to develop a secondary membership/supporter base, losing money from having to play games against lower-drawing sides in Melbourne. There are various reasons why St Kilda is struggling financially atm, but they would undoubtedly have benefitted from secondary-market revenue over the past few years.

2. A secondary market that’s close to Melbourne (e.g. Bulldogs in Ballarat, which we were working on until we got shafted)
Examples: Bendigo, Albury

+ Footy loving communities, likely government/local business support, likely to get decent crowds, many Melbourne-based members can still attend, stadium infrastructure (e.g. Lavington in Albury) doesn’t need extensive redevelopments, limited relocation talk about our club as these locations are quite small, potential for long-term partnership because these locations will not be pushing for their own licence, secure revenue from a secondary market, fewer expenses travelling to these games due to shorter distances. The O & M’s used to be our old recruiting zone so we already have a historical connection to the Albury-Wodonga region. Bendigo is one of our community camp locations this year - anyone know why this is the case?

- Small cities so limited opportunities for significant growth, footy fans in these areas already follow other clubs so unlikely to generate large secondary membership-base, AFL will want to keep Albury as an academy zone for the Giants. We don’t have 11 home games in Melbourne.

3. A secondary market that’s far from Melbourne, but in a footy heartland (e.g. Hawks in Launceston, us in Hobart)
Examples: Darwin, Bunbury/SW WA

Fairly similar to category #2 except greater travel expenses, harder for Vic members to attend and greater possibility of re-location talk because these regions are either keen to pursue their own licences or may want to in the future due to their larger population bases.

4. A secondary market that’s far from Melbourne and in a non-footy heartland
Examples: Newcastle, Sunny Coast, Wollongong, NZ.

+ Larger population bases so the potential to generate decent crowd and membership numbers if in for the long haul. Most locals don’t have current allegiances to clubs.

- lack of local interest and potentially poor crowds, lack of stadium infrastructure, lack of government/ local business support. If an area is a success then relocation talks might start up. We don’t have 11 home games in Melbourne.

5. A secondary market in a non-heartland but where footy has a reasonable presence (e.g. Giants in Canberra)
Examples: Canberra and Cairns

+ a percentage of the locals have some interest in footy, likely to attract some government/local business support, stadium infrastructure in place, decent crowds. Ability to generate a secondary membership base by converting some locals.

- AFL media and footy fans will engage in conversations about relocations, probably not viable as the AFL will want to keep Canberra for GWS and possibly Cairns as a secondary market for the Suns to improve the finances of those two clubs. Canberra and N QLD might want to pursue their own licences in the future. Have already been to Canberra and didn’t gain much traction so not much point in going back. We don’t have 11 home games in Melbourne.

There are clearly many things I haven’t considered, but so far, options 1 and 2 are the obvious standouts. Some might say that we should look at Darwin after Tassie. It might rake in more money in the short term, but it will bring a lot of unwanted attention to our footy club since the NT want a licence (could be Gold Coast 2.0).

If we are in the position that we have to develop a secondary market, can anyone suggest better options than Bendigo or Albury?

 

[Firebat]

A VIC regional area would be nice. Gippsland way?

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

A VIC regional area would be nice. Gippsland way?

I agree that something like that would be the best (if we have to do it to compete). We really got shafted with Ballarat because we started an affiliation and then the AFL and Dogs swooped in. Now the Dogs are in a pretty good position by getting cash to sell a few games only a short drive away from home.

What’s the biggest city out Gippsland way? Are there any big enough to host regular games? (I’m not from Vic).

 

[Nate7]

I agree that something like that would be the best (if we have to do it to compete). What’s the biggest city out Gippsland way? Are there any big enough? (I’m not from Vic).

Traralgon 27000
Warragul 19000

Although those numbers are low, the surrounding areas of those towns would increase the catchment. Secondly, both have frequent public transport services to Melbourne and connecting regions.

 

[hilly]

Regional VIC only imo (outside the first option).

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Duck_18_]

Bendigo would be good. Only and hour from home in Echuca!

 

[Tas]

We don't need a secondary market, we need to work harder on developing our primary market. The state government thinks as many people that currently live in WA will be moving into Melbourne by 2056 and the vast majority are moving into our neck of the woods in the North West corridor. We have our foot in the door in Wyndham and it has been a huge part of our membership growth since we started to work in the region since saying no to Gold Coast.

What we are doing now in Wyndham we need to emulate in Melton, Hume, Brimbank and Whittlesea.

Docklands only holds 50k, we were averaging over 30k games at Docklands last time we didn't suck despite not drawing many home games against big clubs. Bulldogs and Saints have become more important to us than games against Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn. We just need to grow so we get good crowds against franchise clubs.

Membership rose from 38,667 in 2020 to 46,357 in 2021 and 50,191 in 2022 despite us sucking massive arse. We will get this up to over 100k and Docklands will be packed like a can of sardines and people will be saying remember the days you could sit anywhere. It will happen, we just need an administration that puts the focus on our home.

 

[Frank Thring]

Kensington

 

[DuckYeah]

We don't need a secondary market, we need to work harder on developing our primary market. The state government thinks as many people that currently live in WA will be moving into Melbourne by 2056 and the vast majority are moving into our neck of the woods in the North West corridor. We have our foot in the door in Wyndham and it has been a huge part of our membership growth since we started to work in the region since saying no to Gold Coast.

What we are doing now in Wyndham we need to emulate in Melton, Hume, Brimbank and Whittlesea.

Docklands only holds 50k, we were averaging over 30k games at Docklands last time we didn't suck despite not drawing many home games against big clubs. Bulldogs and Saints have become more important to us than games against Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn. We just need to grow so we get good crowds against franchise clubs.

Membership rose to from 38,667 in 2020 to 46,357 in 2021 and 50,191 in 2022 despite us sucking massive arse. We will get this up to over 100k and Docklands will be packed like a can of sardines and people will be saying remember the days you could sit anywhere. It will happen, we just need an administration that puts the focus on our home.

I hope not. I like speedy service at the bar. One of the all time best things about following our club.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Bendigo would be good. Only and hour from home in Echuca!

Have you heard a reason why our community camp is in Bendigo this year? We’re listed as Bendigo (North)-Rochester and the Bombers are Bendigo (South)-Castlemaine. Just wondering if this could be part of a long-term strategy?

AFL Community Camps return in 2023

www.afl.com.au

 

[RightWingRoo]

Still think the dollars from a 2nd market will be handy. Given we'll always be one of the smaller Victorian clubs, due to historical confines.
FWIW was in Albury last night and this morning and stopped past Lavington for a look. Doesn't appear to need much if any work done to it, to achieve AFL standard. The historical connection to Albury/Wodonga and wider NE Vic, is a bonus.
Not sure if we still have significant support up that way?

 

[amaz199]

Fix the issues with home attendance and onfield performances before doing stuff like this. You gain a lot more from your primary market than you would from your secondary by just being a better team on game day.

That's where we are at. We can have a look at the regional Victoria areas when we have the team with enough ability to make supporters that aren't members ring up and get on board.

There's potential in Melbourne and this is where our priority should be.

 

[Tas]

I hope not. I like speedy service at the bar. One of the all time best things about following our club.

I never understood the appeal of drinking at games, my brother used to spend more time moving between his seat, the bar and the bathroom than he did watching the game. I liked it when we used to hit a pub before the game, have a meal and a few drinks, then go to the game and then go for a few after the game depending on the time slot.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Pursue Ballarat again if regional otherwise try takeover Kensington

 

[Steele7]

 

[Mav]

Port Adelaide.

 

[Lomas]

Fix the issues with home attendance and onfield performances before doing stuff like this. You gain a lot more from your primary market than you would from your secondary by just being a better team on game day.

That's where we are at. We can have a look at the regional Victoria areas when we have the team with enough ability to make supporters that aren't members ring up and get on board.

There's potential in Melbourne and this is where our priority should be.

As much as would like to see us engage with country Victoria, you make a good point. Reservoir and Preston would have bigger combined populations than some of the regions we'd look at.

 

[DuckYeah]

I never understood the appeal of drinking at games, my brother used to spend more time moving between his seat, the bar and the bathroom than he did watching the game. I liked it when we used to hit a pub before the game, have a meal and a few drinks, then go to the game and then go for a few after the game depending on the time slot.

Because watching this club gives me ******* anxiety and I cant sit ******* still.

In my days on the outer, I would stand behind the oppo supporters home goal and get my kicks out of trolling and scrapping them.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

As much as would like to see us engage with country Victoria, you make a good point. Reservoir and Preston would have bigger combined populations than some of the regions we'd look at.

This is true, but the main difference is that people from these metro areas can go and watch any team, any time. The passion for the game in regional Vic is so strong that we’d surely get plenty of neutrals attending who would be keen to go and see a game played, locally. If we can generate near-sell outs at a regional venue then a game against the Suns, Freo, Port etc becomes a profitable game instead of a loss-making one. Would be satisfied with a strategy of 11 games in Melbourne, but in doing so, it’s undeniable that we’re turning our backs on the cash that comes with playing in a secondary market.

 

[Lomas]

This is true, but the main difference is that people from these metro areas can go and watch any team, any time. The passion for the game in regional Vic is so strong that we’d surely get plenty of neutrals attending who would be keen to go and see a game played, locally. If we can generate sell outs at a regional venue then a game against the Suns, Freo, Port etc becomes a profitable game instead of a loss-making one. Would be satisfied with a strategy of 11 games in Melbourne, but in doing so, it’s undeniable that we’re turning our backs on the cash that comes with playing in a secondary market.

At least now we don't make a loss on Docklands matches.
I would love to see some well supported games in rural Victoria, but outside of possible Bendigo I can't see the numbers or additional funding. Unless we tie it in to some Rural Commonwealth Games hype and sponsorship. That won't help long term though.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Fix the issues with home attendance and onfield performances before doing stuff like this. You gain a lot more from your primary market than you would from your secondary by just being a better team on game day.

That's where we are at. We can have a look at the regional Victoria areas when we have the team with enough ability to make supporters that aren't members ring up and get on board.

There's potential in Melbourne and this is where our priority should be.

A pretty solid theory. I happened to be in Melbourne for the game v the Giants last year and we were all in the outer with our heads in our hands half the game. Hardly the types of performances that are going to attract a crowd in any location. We’re most likely going to be playing in Hobart for the next few years anyway so maybe by the time we’re moving on from there we’ll be playing much better footy and more of an attractive proposition for spectators.

 

[shinboner magic]

Albury /wodonga area might be a possibility but I’d hope we would try n make a go it in Melb after Tassie games sell off
We should do a deal with immigration or Melb airport of giving any new residents that arrive a kangas showbag by pushing the kangaroo angle.
Also the fast growing areas of outer Melbourne should be targeted as others have said.

 

[Rooboys Rool]

Arden Street

Make it into a boutique little stadium (that holds say 10-15k) and hold 3 games against low drawing franchise teams. Whilst not a lot of direct revenue (compared to a secondary market that pays for us to come) the fact that we could have lower drawing games there and higher drawing games at Marvel, instead of playing Vic teams in Tassie and franchise teams at Marvel, would make up for it. It also better supports the development of the Melbourne market as well.

Obviously the upgrade to Arden Street is the main issue, but with the coming train station and ease of access, Arden Street could be a good location for AFLW games. Seek funding on that basis, which could help our club a lot directly in its own right. Then piggyback off that for the men’s team too.

 

[Gasometer]

The City of Greater Katamatite

 

[Gorman2Geister]

It should be Bendigo. Outgrowing Ballarat, reasonable public transport, the airport connects interstate, marginal seat, close to other sizeable regional centres like Shepp and Echuca.
Regional people love their footy more than their metro counterparts too. Only issue will be the impact on local leagues means Saturday arvo games might be a no no.