Should we be treating 2014 as a development year?

[wednesdaywarrior]

I tried to find some stats on our current age profiles but could only really find details re: overall lists rather than best or current 22s. Others may be able to help with this.

At least from an overall list perspective our age profile is similar to teams like Melbourne, The Dogs, Brisbane and Port. Leaving aside Port for a second, who have torn it up and now seem to be declining in the second half of the season, you would say that our young and relatively inexperienced side have actually done alright this year, depending on what people expect.

It interests me how Melbourne, Brisbane and the Dogs are always referred to in the media as 'young, developing sides' and given a free pass for dishing up practically anything while we are always perceived as being a more experienced team.

Should we ratchet down our expectations for this season? Have we actually done alright? Are we being too harsh on a quite young playing group or are we just not good enough?

I didn't see the Suns game which seems to indicate a low point in our season in so far as skills and teamwork and goal kicking accuracy so I get why people are despairing. But I wonder if our expectations weren't so high this season whether we could see more positives.

Is this a team in development or a team in contention?

 

[Manic Magpie]

Why does this topic require two identical threads?

 

[Buena]

It could be a development year, but we haven't really developed anyone. Adams aside, it's obvious that Bucks likes him. We've left Martin, Kennedy & Broomhead in the 2's all year, and Scharenberg & Freeman have been injured all season. Blair, Ball, Lumumba etc playing 22 games is not going to help us at all. They're the cancer, not the cure.

 

[Manic Magpie]

It could be a development year, but we haven't really developed anyone. Adams aside, it's obvious that Bucks likes him. We've left Martin, Kennedy & Broomhead in the 2's all year, and Scharenberg & Freeman have been injured all season. Blair, Ball, Lumumba etc playing 22 games is not going to help us at all. They're the cancer, not the cure.

I reckon you are correct. I cannot think of anyone who has improved this year. So much for development.

 

[Pendles!]

Wasn't this year always a development year?

 

[Pendles!]

I reckon you are correct. I cannot think of anyone who has improved this year. So much for development.

Oh c'mon! Langdon, frost, seedsman, elliot, witts, Adams, Kennedy?? Grundy and keefe will be better for the run too.

 

[SuperSub17]

I reckon you are correct. I cannot think of anyone who has improved this year. So much for development.

Macaffer, Goldsack, Kennedy, Adams, Witts, Elliott, Sidebottom, Keeffe, Thomas, Williams, Seedsman, Langdon, Frost have all played better than they did last year.

Stop overreacting so much.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Oh c'mon! Langdon, frost, seedsman, elliot, witts, Adams, Kennedy?? Grundy and keefe will be better for the run too.

Langdon was better at the start of the season than he is now. Elliot is or was an improver. Seedsman is not as good as he was last year. Witts has improved but was always going to be better than last year, as developing ruckmen usually are. Kennedy was treading water till this week. Adams is not as good as we had anticipated and still hasn't cemented a spot in the team. Frost has fallen away in recent weeks. Grundy was better last year and Keeffe looks more suspect with each week that passes. There is not much there to get excited about.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Macaffer, Goldsack, Kennedy, Adams, Witts, Elliott, Sidebottom, Keeffe, Thomas, Williams, Seedsman, Langdon, Frost have all played better than they did last year.

Stop overreacting so much.

Williams, Thomas, Seedsman, Langdon (see above), Adams and Keeffe were all better players in the past. Goldsack's best year was his first year. I don't see too much overreaction. Perhaps you are too easily pleased.

 

[Yidaki]

It was always going to be a development year. In fact, we have been in development ever since Buckley took over. I'm not sure why people were thinking that we were in with a shot at the flag this year. In the words of Bwad SCott, "That's fantasy stuff that".

 

[PepperFace]

We have already been told by the club we are building for a tilt at the flag in 2016. Why do people on here continually overrate us? Of course its a development year. I, like many others just hoped we had developed at a faster rate

 

[SuperSub17]

Langdon was better at the start of the season than he is now. Elliot is or was an improver. Seedsman is not as good as he was last year. Witts has improved but was always going to be better than last year, as developing ruckmen usually are. Kennedy was treading water till this week. Adams is not as good as we had anticipated and still hasn't cemented a spot in the team. Frost has fallen away in recent weeks. Grundy was better last year and Keeffe looks more suspect with each week that passes. There is not much there to get excited about.

Williams, Thomas, Seedsman, Langdon (see above), Adams and Keeffe were all better players in the past. Goldsack's best year was his first year. I don't see too much overreaction. Perhaps you are too easily pleased.

Langdon has been nothing short of a revelation. Yesterday he played a solid game. Even if he's had a few quiet games that doesn't mean he hasn't developed.

Seedsman has been better this year. You're wrong there.

Kennedy has been carving up the VFL and has now played two excellent games in the seniors. That's more than you can say about him last year.

Again Adams had played three excellent games prior to yesterday and will be a big part of the side long term.

Frost has been excellent. Has won battles against just about everyone. If you're arguing he hasn't developed you have no clue.

Keeffe doesn't look vulnerable as the weeks go by. He played an excellent game just last week. The short memory there is ridiculous.

Williams has been instrumental for us and is still very young. Thomas likewise is very inexperienced and has played a few excellent games this year.

Your negativity here is just completely misplaced.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

There has definitely been improvement in the team, and we are doing it the right way by balancing the kids with experienced players. If we just got flogged very week while playing kids you end up like GWS or Melbourne. Winning breeds a winning culture. Players like Elliott, Langdon, Witts, Grundy, Adams, Seedsman etc have all had decent years so far and have got valuable experience and games into them. Yes, ultimately we want Scharenberg and Freeman to getting games, but they are injured.

Balancing giving kids games and being competitive is the best experience these kids will get. It sucks to be playing players like Blair and Dwyer, but it a necessary evil at the moment given all our injuries. However, I probably would still have gotten more games into players like Kennedy and Martin, but the coaching staff have had a more cautious approach.

 

[Pendles!]

Langdon was better at the start of the season than he is now. Elliot is or was an improver. Seedsman is not as good as he was last year. Witts has improved but was always going to be better than last year, as developing ruckmen usually are. Kennedy was treading water till this week. Adams is not as good as we had anticipated and still hasn't cemented a spot in the team. Frost has fallen away in recent weeks. Grundy was better last year and Keeffe looks more suspect with each week that passes. There is not much there to get excited about.

Nah, you're wrong. Sorry. There's a lot to be excited about.

Kennedy, just because he has been playing VFL doesn't mean he has been treading water.

Langdon has just been getting better and better.

Frost's first full year adtAFL level so you'd expect him to drop off but that doesn't be means he hasn't improved.

Anyway, don't know why I'm bothering..

 

[Manic Magpie]

Langdon has been nothing short of a revelation. Yesterday he played a solid game. Even if he's had a few quiet games that doesn't mean he hasn't developed.

Seedsman has been better this year. You're wrong there.

Kennedy has been carving up the VFL and has now played two excellent games in the seniors. That's more than you can say about him last year.

Again Adams had played three excellent games prior to yesterday and will be a big part of the side long term.

Frost has been excellent. Has won battles against just about everyone. If you're arguing he hasn't developed you have no clue.

Keeffe doesn't look vulnerable as the weeks go by. He played an excellent game just last week. The short memory there is ridiculous.

Williams has been instrumental for us and is still very young. Thomas likewise is very inexperienced and has played a few excellent games this year.

Your negativity here is just completely misplaced.

How can you possibly say that Williams, Thomas, Seedsman and Adams are better than last year? Langdon and Frost were at least as good at the start of the season. Keeffe certainly looked very vulnerable yesterday and against Adelaide. And surely Kennedy was always going to be better in his 2nd year given he was a first round draft pick. Then look at all the players who seem to have gone backwards.

 

[SuperSub17]

As far as the team goes as a whole, last year we were flogged multiple times. Hawthorn 55+35 points, Essendon 46, Freo 27, Port 35, Sydney 47. Our average losing margin was 32 points. This year we've lost 3 games by under 2 goals and just lacked polish when it's got close late. Average losing margin since the Freo game is 15 points.

We're heading in the right direction.

 

[Pendles!]

Langdon has been nothing short of a revelation. Yesterday he played a solid game. Even if he's had a few quiet games that doesn't mean he hasn't developed.

Seedsman has been better this year. You're wrong there.

Kennedy has been carving up the VFL and has now played two excellent games in the seniors. That's more than you can say about him last year.

Again Adams had played three excellent games prior to yesterday and will be a big part of the side long term.

Frost has been excellent. Has won battles against just about everyone. If you're arguing he hasn't developed you have no clue.

Keeffe doesn't look vulnerable as the weeks go by. He played an excellent game just last week. The short memory there is ridiculous.

Williams has been instrumental for us and is still very young. Thomas likewise is very inexperienced and has played a few excellent games this year.

Your negativity here is just completely misplaced.

Don't bother mate

 

[SuperSub17]

How can you possibly say that Williams, Thomas, Seedsman and Adams are better than last year? Langdon and Frost were at least as good at the start of the season. Keeffe certainly looked very vulnerable yesterday and against Adelaide. And surely Kennedy was always going to be better in his 2nd year given he was a first round draft pick. Then look at all the players who seem to have gone backwards.

Sigh...

You're happy to make excuses for Kennedy's good form due to being a first-round draft pick but not willing to offer the same cushion to guys like Langdon, Thomas, Frost, Keeffe etc who were late draft picks or original rookies.

Which players have gone backwards exactly?

 

[Manic Magpie]

Sigh...

You're happy to make excuses for Kennedy's good form due to being a first-round draft pick but not willing to offer the same cushion to guys like Langdon, Thomas, Frost, Keeffe etc who were late draft picks or original rookies.

Which players have gone backwards exactly?

Lumumba, Swan, Blair, Williams, Toovey, Dwyer, Grundy, Clarke, Ball, White, Sinclair and Ramsay have all gone backwards. Keeffe is no longer the great KPD hope he used to be.

 

[SuperSub17]

Lumumba, Swan, Blair, Williams, Toovey, Dwyer, Grundy, Clarke, Ball, White, Sinclair and Ramsay have all gone backwards. Keeffe is no longer the great KPD hope he used to be.

Lumumba has been average for a few years now.

Swan and Ball are both ageing. Neither is important to our next flag tilt, so not sure why you're complaining about that in the development thread.

I disagree with you on Williams as I've said before.

Blair is just an average player, always has been, always will be. Not important in terms of the overall team.

Toovey didn't play at all last year FFS!

Dwyer was always a fringe player. Has been about the same IMO.

Grundy only played a handful of games last year. Has been about the same this year in terms of average output.

Clarke and Ramsay are VFL players and not relevant to the discussion.

White hasn't gone backwards. He struggled for a spot at Sydney and is best 22 for us.

Sinclair has been injured since round 2. Ridiculous call.

So, in summary, you are so far off the mark with most of these. I think I'm done here.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Lumumba has been average for a few years now.

Swan and Ball are both ageing. Neither is important to our next flag tilt, so not sure why you're complaining about that in the development thread.

I disagree with you on Williams as I've said before.

Blair is just an average player, always has been, always will be. Not important in terms of the overall team.

Toovey didn't play at all last year FFS!

Dwyer was always a fringe player. Has been about the same IMO.

Grundy only played a handful of games last year. Has been about the same this year in terms of average output.

Clarke and Ramsay are VFL players and not relevant to the discussion.

White hasn't gone backwards. He struggled for a spot at Sydney and is best 22 for us.

Sinclair has been injured since round 2. Ridiculous call.

So, in summary, you are so far off the mark with most of these. I think I'm done here.

You just want to have everything your own way. Toovey might not have played last year, but he sure as hell is not the player of previous years. Williams will not be a candidate for best and fairest this year. All you can show is a handful of players who have improved, all of them young guys who would have been expected to improve, and you ignore the rest.

 

[jerry springer]

Macaffer, Goldsack, Kennedy, Adams, Witts, Elliott, Sidebottom, Keeffe, Thomas, Williams, Seedsman, Langdon, Frost have all played better than they did last year.

Stop overreacting so much.

Josh Thomas certainly hasn't, neither has the Seed and Adam's has been fairly average for all the hype. Marley was better last year as well compared to this season

 

[Pendles!]

You just want to have everything your own way. Toovey might not have played last year, but he sure as hell is not the player of previous years. Williams will not be a candidate for best and fairest this year. All you can show is a handful of players who have improved, all of them young guys who would have been expected to improve, and you ignore the rest.

I dont get what you mean when you say they are "expected to improve"? You're saying our young players aren't developing and improving, yet those who clearly have improved don't count because they "should improve" anyway..

 

[SuperSub17]

You just want to have everything your own way. Toovey might not have played last year, but he sure as hell is not the player of previous years. Williams will not be a candidate for best and fairest this year. All you can show is a handful of players who have improved, all of them young guys who would have been expected to improve, and you ignore the rest.

So why are you complaining about older players like Swan, Ball, Lumumba and Toovey not improving?

Your double standards are absolutely ludicrous

 

[Pendles!]

Josh Thomas certainly hasn't, neither has the Seed and Adam's has been fairly average for all the hype. Marley was better last year as well compared to this season

Josh Thomas just isn't that good. Seed has been injured, but has been more influential than last year. Adams has been fine. Agree on Marley, but you can understand that given his lead up.