Snoops Annual List Strategy incl Trade & DRAFT targets

[ksardog]

I reckon Witt's and a first rounder would be plenty for some of our GWS & GC targets. Witt's may turn out to be the next Sandilands, but I reckon he's surplus with Grundy there. Get a Ben Hudson type in to help Grundy if he gets injured throughout the season, etc

Or if we can develop both witts and grundy to be able to go forward and hit the scoreboard and be the most lethal ruck/forward combo in the league. Both are 23 and under, their best years ( by ruckmans standards ) will be 24-29.
The AFL will be slowing the game down again, far fewer interchanges. The return of the big men is near. Back them in to lead our rucks for the rest of the decade.

 

[jackcass]

Would you say either have more or less value than Beams had at the end of last year?

Danger more, the GWS guys are still finding their way but could potentially surpass Beams.

 

[swoop42]

I'm now thinking if we want Treloar then snoop dog is probably right and it'll take Witts plus our first rounder to snare him at a minimum.

Witts is probably the only player on our list that has both enough currency as trade bait and a player we could cope in losing and still have a shot at a flag ourselves thanks to the presence of Grundy.

We of course would then need to find a suitable ruck back from either the state leagues or a player currently on an AFL list limited in his opportunities who may move for more money but not necessarily more opportunity.

Of course with how the game is progressing we might prefer a highly mobile type of option as our 2nd ruck anyway as a point of difference to Grundy so trading Witts could also make sense from that point of view.

Who knows the club may not be even considering this option and depending on what occurs for the remainder of the season may end up in a position where it's not even an option at all.

 

[Old Spice]

Or if we can develop both witts and grundy to be able to go forward and hit the scoreboard and be the most lethal ruck/forward combo in the league. Both are 23 and under, their best years ( by ruckmans standards ) will be 24-29.
The AFL will be slowing the game down again, far fewer interchanges. The return of the big men is near. Back them in to lead our rucks for the rest of the decade.

I don't see how fewer interchanges would help teams carry lumbering rucks, if anything it's the other way. An expanded bench by itself would help carry 2 rucks but a capped interchange would mean athletic rucks like Stanley or Blicavs would be at a premium not 2 #1 ruckmen.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I'm now thinking if we want Treloar then snoop dog is probably right and it'll take Witts plus our first rounder to snare him at a minimum.

Witts is probably the only player on our list that has both enough currency as trade bait and a player we could cope in losing and still have a shot at a flag ourselves thanks to the presence of Grundy.

We of course would then need to find a suitable ruck back from either the state leagues or a player currently on an AFL list limited in his opportunities who may move for more money but not necessarily more opportunity.

Of course with how the game is progressing we might prefer a highly mobile type of option as our 2nd ruck anyway as a point of difference to Grundy so trading Witts could also make sense from that point of view.

Who knows the club may not be even considering this option and depending on what occurs for the remainder of the season may end up in a position where it's not even an option at all.

I am doubtful he would leave. We all love the Pies but really why would he go? YOu'd stay and sign a 2-3 year agreement on decent coin and try and win a premiership I would have thought. But alas Treloar would be good. They would want 2 x first round selections would think as they won't have room I suspect for 'star' players and would have no desire for average players. Not sure how we get there though unless we package up Rd 2 with a player to a club who doesn't rate the draft. Other alternative is maybe Rd 1 selection plus Witts and then ask for something else back from them (e.g. Stewart, Plowman, Wilson, Hampton etc) depending on our needs.

Nirvana for me is still Dangerfield because he won't cost anything but seems unlikely still.

A midfielder and key forward for me are the priorities. Key forwards though are very hard to get and not sure you could fit a Dangerfield in the cap with Dixon. We certainly couldn't get treloar and Dixon to the club as impossible to construct appropriate trades to do so.

As an aside, I am also warming to the idea of Yarran as well.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Dangerfield, Dixon and Yarran.....make it happen

 

[ksardog]

I don't see how fewer interchanges would help teams carry lumbering rucks, if anything it's the other way. An expanded bench by itself would help carry 2 rucks but a capped interchange would mean athletic rucks like Stanley or Blicavs would be at a premium not 2 #1 ruckmen.

All clubs use to play the 2 rucks before the sub rule came in, that rule will be gone very soon, maybe next year.

AFL want to slow the gamw down, reduce interchange, players staying on the ground longer. The resting ruckman in the forward line will come back in vogue. Thats why a player who can play forward/ruck is so valuable.

I believe grundy and witts are both capable of playing this role.

The examples u gave, blicavs and stanley are the exception not the norm. Who else has a 200cm player that can run like them? We may possibly have a 211cm one, but they are rare.

 

[kaistar]

Snoop I reckon if treloar wants to come which I hope he does. We should offer witts 1st rounder for treloar Hampton. Hampton has heaps of potential but not given a chance at GWS

 

[DaveoTench]

I reckon Henderson would be perfect for our forward setup. He can also play back. With the upcoming draft supposedly weak and the talent all linked to academies etc maybe we will look to trade picks. I wouldn't really be keen to trade Witts or any other player on our list really. IMO we do need to find a replacement for Cloke however im sure the club has a plan and our list is actually evolving nicely.

 

[Matt_352]

If we trade Witts then we could sign Matty Kreuzer

 

[Apex36]

If we trade Witts then we could sign Matty Kreuzer

An excellent addition to our rehab group.

Funny how people are ending Reid's career for him, but seem to ignore the fact that Kruezer has been off the park for just as long as him.

 

[SquirrelGrrripp]

Snoop I reckon if treloar wants to come which I hope he does. We should offer witts 1st rounder for treloar Hampton. Hampton has heaps of potential but not given a chance at GWS

I've seen Curtly's name mentioned a few times in this thread now.

I had a decent chat with Curtly at the recent Hawthorn GWS game in Sydney. An extremely approachable and affable young man..

Curtly was surprisingly, quite open with his current disposition and future prospects in relation to his career.

Curtly is a obviously frustrated he can't break into the seniors and he's certainly not sold on living and working out of Western Sydney..

My point... I probed him about playing in Victoria and he is definitely weighing up his options atm and he said there was a few Vic clubs on his radar..

By no means solid evidence he will leave the Giants but it was a seemingly honest conversation with a polite and talented young man..

 

[soreplums]

I've seen Curtly's name mentioned a few times in this thread now.

I had a decent chat with Curtly at the recent Hawthorn GWS game in Sydney. An extremely approachable and affable young man..

Curtly was surprisingly, quite open with his current disposition and future prospects in relation to his career.

Curtly is a obviously frustrated he can't break into the seniors and he's certainly not sold on living and working out of Western Sydney..

My point... I probed him about playing in Victoria and he is definitely weighing up his options atm and he said there was a few Vic clubs on his radar..

By no means solid evidence he will leave the Giants but it was a seemingly honest conversation with a polite and talented young man..

It would be interesting to find out what it would cost us trade and contract wise. I rate him running off half back. The only thing is that we have a stack of players on our list who can play his position. Toovey, Ramsay, Williams, Langdon, Maynard, scharenberg, Oxley (anyone else?). Can any of them push into the midfield?

 

[soreplums]

In relation to trading with GWS, they would be looking at first rounders to bid on their academy players and potentially a senior listed player- not necessarily a top liner due to salary cap payments. More top line talent heading their way without breaking the bank.

 

[Scodog10]

Knightmare I had to bring the discussion across from our pre-match because that thread has been locked and I was shocked by your statement re Elliott and his standing as a small forward in 2015.

Betts, Dalhaus, Thomas, Cripps and Smith are all having more impact in 2015 with Elliott's numbers bloated by standout performances against bottom 4 teams in GC and St Kilda accounting for 9 of his 16 goals this year. He hasn't improved his game from 2014 where he averaged two goals a game and 6 marks which are identical to 2015. All told if he's been one of our top 3 performers I've been watching a different team this past 8 weeks because Crisp, Swan, Grundy, Pendlebury, Brown, Toovey and Williams have all been more consistent and valuable contributors, IMO. I would also have Oxley ahead despite not particularly rating him and his up and down form.

Separately I'm looking for insight into Nick Amato and his draft hopes in 2015? I was speaking to a mate yesterday about Ben Kennedy and where he's at. His thoughts were that Amato is outshining him at the respective state levels due to the relative strength of the SANFL and VFL. I regard this individual as the best judge of SA talent going around so I did a bit of digging and could only find limited info on him which generally confirmed that he's performing well in 2015.

I'm not keen on Dwyer receiving another contract so I'd be interested in feedback on Amato's likelihood of lobbing with us as a mature age rookie in 2015. Snoop Dog if your likewise able to provide insight into Amato that would be fantastic.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare I had to bring the discussion across from our pre-match because that thread has been locked and I was shocked by your statement re Elliott and his standing as a small forward in 2015.

Betts, Dalhaus, Thomas, Cripps and Smith are all having more impact in 2015 with Elliott's numbers bloated by standout performances against bottom 4 teams in GC and St Kilda accounting for 9 of his 16 goals this year. He hasn't improved his game from 2014 where he averaged two goals a game and 6 marks which are identical to 2015. All told if he's been one of our top 3 performers I've been watching a different team this past 8 weeks because Crisp, Swan, Grundy, Pendlebury, Brown, Toovey and Williams have all been more consistent and valuable contributors, IMO. I would also have Oxley ahead despite not particularly rating him and his up and down form.

Separately I'm looking for insight into Nick Amato and his draft hopes in 2015? I was speaking to a mate yesterday about Ben Kennedy and where he's at. His thoughts were that Amato is outshining him at the respective state levels due to the relative strength of the SANFL and VFL. I regard this individual as the best judge of SA talent going around so I did a bit of digging and could only find limited info on him which generally confirmed that he's performing well in 2015.

I'm not keen on Dwyer receiving another contract so I'd be interested in feedback on Amato's likelihood of lobbing with us as a mature age rookie in 2015. Snoop Dog if your likewise able to provide insight into Amato that would be fantastic.

Jamie Elliott I'd regard as the same player as he was last year. And that generally seems to be the case once our players reach a particular age and have been with the club for a few seasons.

In terms of Elliott's standing on the Collingwood list he would if the B+F was counted today, he would be my third choice after Pendlebury and Grundy. Reason being, Cloke hasn't been effective. Reid has been hurt. Sidebottom missed that stretch of matches. Swan has had his up and down games (and would be fourth after Elliott in my count) and those games when used forward has been ineffective.
So it's not like Elliott has had many competing against him at the podium 8 rounds in. Toovey, Crisp, Langdon, Seedsman, Goldsack, Brown and Frost have otherwise been those only other AFL standard performers to this point, but I like what Elliott has offered more, as our best and only reliable forward.

In terms of standing among small forwards with Elliott. If depends on your criteria and exactly what you're looking at. Betts has probably started the season hottest of all the small forwards.
But from the standpoint of, you can pick any two small forwards to play in the forward pocket. Breust and Elliott would be my two picks. The thing that sets them both apart for me is that reliability in front of goal. Rioli with his incredible pressuring game would be unlucky to miss, and Wingard would probably be that next on that list and all in that conversation but I see him more as a combo mid/fwd. Steven Motlop is every bit as good as Elliott but I like him more up the ground. Dahlhaus could be in that discussion on his current form though I slightly favour others.

On Nick Amato. He is a small mid (in his draft year - two years ago he was 178cm) so he'd be around that mark. He isn't a flashy/classy/special player. But someone who gets the job done. He can play a negating/shutdown role which was what he did during the u18s. And he can also win his own ball through the midfield as well as on the outside and is starting to really accumulate big numbers and start to offer some more scoreboard impact. So he is progressing. And it was surprising in 2013 when he was overlooked, as he always had the performances on the board.
For a player comparison. I liken him to a shorter Liam Picken. He plays a good hard brand and similarly can be used as a negating mid, can play in the back half, or be a ball winner through the midfield.

Amato could prove to be a wise rookie selection, but probably not a fashionable type that would go in the national draft.

On who would I take of Kennedy or Amato? I'd go Kennedy. I wouldn't go as far as to say comfortably as Kennedy is still developing into an AFL standard mid and projects more as a low level rotation mid, but Amato wouldn't be so far behind and like I said before should have been drafted in his draft year.

On whether I'd back Amato to make the grade or whether I'd want him at Collingwood. I'd personally pass. We've got enough sub 180cm players, and our primary midfield need is star power, and Amato is more a component to a midfield, than a reason why your midfield will be effective. We've got enough who fit into that component to a midfield/capable but by AFL standard low level midfielders.

Is Amato better than Dwyer? Definitely different. I'd regard them as while different to be similar standard performers as high level state leaguers who can as required play at AFL level. But I'd be letting Dwyer go anyway at seasons end given we're not a top 8 team and need to get games into our younger players, with Dwyer more a late career depth standard player.

 

[Matt_352]

Just heard on Future Stars mentioning Sam Wiedeman being drafted by Carlton, nearly threw up

 

[Apex36]

Just heard on Future Stars mentioning Sam Wiedeman being drafted by Carlton, nearly threw up

They wouldn't be able to keep him beyond his initial contract imo. The kid grew up in a Collingwood family and was taught to hate the scum. Even as a Tigers supporter, he would still hate the Blues with a passion. You could imagine how his grandad would be in his ear for two years if the Blues were to select him.

Would be a massive mistake for them to pick him imo, on par with Brisbane picking James Aish.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If Weideman barracked for the Tigers, there is no romance element in it for me. I hope we go best available and that best available happens to be an athletic, competitive tall KPP.

 

[Knightmare]

Just heard on Future Stars mentioning Sam Wiedeman being drafted by Carlton, nearly threw up

Weideman has been grossly overrated by the media to this point.

He is pretty much Dawes without the endurance or willingness to tackle and pressure.

He's a second rounder on my draft board anyway.

He has nice height and size. His main weapon is his marking ability, but at the same time, he can at times struggle to read the flight and also drop marks he should be taking.

So at this point. Weideman has more to prove to me before he is someone I'd be willing to draft.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He's a second rounder on my draft board anyway.

He has nice height and size. His main weapon is his marking ability, but at the same time, he can at times struggle to read the flight and also drop marks he should be taking.

So at this point. Weideman has more to prove to me before he is someone I'd be willing to draft.

You only have hypothetical first round picks?

 

[Scodog10]

Jamie Elliott I'd regard as the same player as he was last year. And that generally seems to be the case once our players reach a particular age and have been with the club for a few seasons.

In terms of Elliott's standing on the Collingwood list he would if the B+F was counted today, he would be my third choice after Pendlebury and Grundy. Reason being, Cloke hasn't been effective. Reid has been hurt. Sidebottom missed that stretch of matches. Swan has had his up and down games (and would be fourth after Elliott in my count) and those games when used forward has been ineffective.
So it's not like Elliott has had many competing against him at the podium 8 rounds in. Toovey, Crisp, Langdon, Seedsman, Goldsack, Brown and Frost have otherwise been those only other AFL standard performers to this point, but I like what Elliott has offered more, as our best and only reliable forward.

In terms of standing among small forwards with Elliott. If depends on your criteria and exactly what you're looking at. Betts has probably started the season hottest of all the small forwards.
But from the standpoint of, you can pick any two small forwards to play in the forward pocket. Breust and Elliott would be my two picks. The thing that sets them both apart for me is that reliability in front of goal. Rioli with his incredible pressuring game would be unlucky to miss, and Wingard would probably be that next on that list and all in that conversation but I see him more as a combo mid/fwd. Steven Motlop is every bit as good as Elliott but I like him more up the ground. Dahlhaus could be in that discussion on his current form though I slightly favour others.

On Nick Amato. He is a small mid (in his draft year - two years ago he was 178cm) so he'd be around that mark. He isn't a flashy/classy/special player. But someone who gets the job done. He can play a negating/shutdown role which was what he did during the u18s. And he can also win his own ball through the midfield as well as on the outside and is starting to really accumulate big numbers and start to offer some more scoreboard impact. So he is progressing. And it was surprising in 2013 when he was overlooked, as he always had the performances on the board.
For a player comparison. I liken him to a shorter Liam Picken. He plays a good hard brand and similarly can be used as a negating mid, can play in the back half, or be a ball winner through the midfield.

Amato could prove to be a wise rookie selection, but probably not a fashionable type that would go in the national draft.

On who would I take of Kennedy or Amato? I'd go Kennedy. I wouldn't go as far as to say comfortably as Kennedy is still developing into an AFL standard mid and projects more as a low level rotation mid, but Amato wouldn't be so far behind and like I said before should have been drafted in his draft year.

On whether I'd back Amato to make the grade or whether I'd want him at Collingwood. I'd personally pass. We've got enough sub 180cm players, and our primary midfield need is star power, and Amato is more a component to a midfield, than a reason why your midfield will be effective. We've got enough who fit into that component to a midfield/capable but by AFL standard low level midfielders.

Is Amato better than Dwyer? Definitely different. I'd regard them as while different to be similar standard performers as high level state leaguers who can as required play at AFL level. But I'd be letting Dwyer go anyway at seasons end given we're not a top 8 team and need to get games into our younger players, with Dwyer more a late career depth standard player.

Thank you for the info/ insight into your views on Amato relative to Dwyer and Kennedy

The key concern I have is that VFL footy is akin to a level between SANFL reserves and SANFL seniors. Putting up the numbers at VFL level is just not the same as putting up numbers at SANFL level, IMO.

The only thing I would add was that your initial assessment was that Elliott has been one of our three best performers this year. I agree from an overall assessment of our list and where its at with Sidebottom and Reid missing chunks of the season that as a list fit he would be top 3, but on performances he just isn't close, IMO. With a number of others putting up more consistent and quality performances.

 

[magpies53]

They wouldn't be able to keep him beyond his initial contract imo. The kid grew up in a Collingwood family and was taught to hate the scum. Even as a Tigers supporter, he would still hate the Blues with a passion. You could imagine how his grandad would be in his ear for two years if the Blues were to select him.

Would be a massive mistake for them to pick him imo, on par with Brisbane picking James Aish.

There not going to take sam with pick 1 or 2

 

[Scodog10]

There not going to take sam with pick 1 or 2

I believe the inference was that they would select him with pick 19 or 20.

 

[ace andy]

They wouldn't be able to keep him beyond his initial contract imo. The kid grew up in a Collingwood family and was taught to hate the scum. Even as a Tigers supporter, he would still hate the Blues with a passion. You could imagine how his grandad would be in his ear for two years if the Blues were to select him.

Would be a massive mistake for them to pick him imo, on par with Brisbane picking James Aish.

Has there ever been a player that left a club because of who he supported as a kid though? Sounds more like how supporters think than afl players.

I'm pretty sure once you are in the system you don't think in terms of clubs but in terms of your mates and your relationships at the moment with the current coaches/players.