Somewhow I don't think this will hurt Collingwood...

[bomberstomake8]

nice rant but you overlook the fact that every single one of those players would be in your best 22.... and that your lot would have had Malthouse in a heartbeat.

not really.... we would have no room for rocca... he wouldnt get a gig in our forward line

 

[DarthTed]

Simple Question:
What would you prefer, a team that finished top four, or a team that finished bottom four?

Because you seem to think your side is much better than ours atm, when we all know otherwise.

Actually, I don't think Essendon's team is currently better than Collingwood's and the finishing positions in 2007 tell the story. Not sure how you possibly came to that conclusion from what I said. I do think that Michael and Fletcher are better than Presti and Wakelin and that Lloyd and Lucas are both better than Rocca but in other parts of the ground Collingwood has us covered at the moment. But even grand final teams sometimes have players that wouldn't necessarily be walk up starts
in weaker teams.

 

[DarthTed]

They also seem to think Davey would get a game ahead of Didak, Medhurst & Leon.

Where did you get that idea from?

I'd take Davey ahead of Leon Davis any day. Medhurst is a very different type of player so it would depend on team balance. Didak is clearly on a different level to the rest of those players.

 

[cs61]

What are you talking about Mark T. Ed is complaining about the new relocation unfairly benefiting the Roos, and in the same conversation he talking about a fixture where he wouldn't have to play any interstate team in their own state (except for Brisbane) which would not only benefit Collingwood dramatically but hurt all interstate sides and Melbourne sides.

How can you possibly say its just because its Collingwood. It is one of the most ridiculous proposals i have ever seen, and can't believe that he is actually being serious or that anyone could possibly take his suggestion seriously.

I personally think Eds just trying to get the Collingwood brand out there again and get some news time exposure, but he if he is serious he has lost the plot.

Is the most hypocritical person in football. Pies' supporters go on that "its just because we're Collingwood", no, its because of people like Eddie coming up with crap like this then being the biggest whinger in the AFL.

 

[Maxwell#27]

Agree Jeff. But hard to blame him. They have won one flag in 50 years. Have just re signed a coach who is nearing a decade of failure (bizarre move to say the least!) and Eddie checks out a list that has guys like Presti and Wakes down back and guys like Rocca, Shaws, Thomas and Fraser still getting senoir gigs. I can see why he is chasing for a big advantage.

You are an absoloute C@#k smoker. "Lets rely on Fletcher not to play on a man because we have mal michael to free him up" your club is a joke, maybe you guys can get another campo in the pre-season draft or maybe jason johnson can re-invent him self as a quality midfeilder, or possibly myer could be another kepler bradley at pick 6 (i doubt it, but i'll throw it in there) This is why i hate Essondon so, so, so very very much.

 

[privatopia]

not really.... we would have no room for rocca... he wouldnt get a gig in our forward line

You make a solid, spicy argument there, well done wtf does your opinion on Rocca and the bomber's fwd line have to do with the pies at Carrara? Geez, you reckon pies supporters are one-eyed. I refer back to the call on the clouds and the mushrooms.

 

[magpie_militia]

You are an absoloute C@#k smoker. "Lets rely on Fletcher not to play on a man because we have mal michael to free him up" your club is a joke, maybe you guys can get another campo in the pre-season draft or maybe jason johnson can re-invent him self as a quality midfeilder, or possibly myer could be another kepler bradley at pick 6 (i doubt it, but i'll throw it in there) This is why i hate Essondon so, so, so very very much.

I hate to break it to you after that rant - but he actually supports Carlton

 

[JeffDunne]

Makes me laugh how you look at things too Jeffrey. Do you think Eddie would be happy enough to open everything up? No rigging anything. No artificially influencing success?

As I too laugh at your simplistic view of the universe. Your swallowing of Collingwood mythology is almost Carltonesque.

Anyhow, do I think Eddie would be happy to open 'everything' up?

No I don't.

The draft and cap are the fundamental levelling agents. Tipping the draft and the cap are THE tools of success manipulation. The draw probably has some impact. Ultimately the results are the arbiter. 6 consecutive grand finals for 4 wins for the only 2 teams with salary cap allowances. Near on 7 year premiership success for all the list assisted start-ups bar Freo.

Carlton cheated the cap and finished with the spoon.

Collingwood regularly spend more on their TPP than teams with concessions.

Collingwood regularly spend more on their TPP than most other teams.

How do those facts fit in with your theory on why teams win premierships?

Now rigged draws – what do you think the success rates for those beneficiary clubs is? I guess Essendon won a flag in 2000. Do you think their draw was a factor?

You really do believe Eddie is doing this for the benefit of the competition and not for an advantage to Collingwood?

Is that what you're suggesting?

Actually I gave you too much credit. Even Carlton supporters wouldn't swallow that.

 

[boulos]

Actually, I don't think Essendon's team is currently better than Collingwood's and the finishing positions in 2007 tell the story. Not sure how you possibly came to that conclusion from what I said. I do think that Michael and Fletcher are better than Presti and Wakelin and that Lloyd and Lucas are both better than Rocca but in other parts of the ground Collingwood has us covered at the moment. But even grand final teams sometimes have players that wouldn't necessarily be walk up starts
in weaker teams.

I'm Just amazed at how you conveniently mentioned the players on our list that supposedly wouldn't be in your best 22, but failed to mention the 75% of players on your list that would be lucky to get a gig in our reserves!

Bias much??

 

[Bloben]

Collingwood regularly spend more on their TPP than teams with concessions.

Collingwood regularly spend more on their TPP than most other teams.

How do those facts fit in with your theory on why teams win premierships?

Would you care to explain what you meant by this?

 

[MarkT]

Is the most hypocritical person in football. Pies' supporters go on that "its just because we're Collingwood", no, its because of people like Eddie coming up with crap like this then being the biggest whinger in the AFL.

Funny thing is Eddie has been Collingwood president for only 9 years. Anyone older than 15 knows nothing has changed in this regard over the last 9 years. It’s all because of Eddie they say. I suppose it was once all because of the bloke on the footys. In 1990 the Sun had a middle page liftout of the Copeland count round by round and compared to Brownlow votes. Tony Shaw was King of Moomba.

You better pray we don’t win flag. If you don’t remember 1990 you aint seen nuthin’ yet and 1990 will pale by the time Eddie is through.

 

[JeffDunne]

Would you care to explain what you meant by this?

I was simply throwing out some facts that contradict MarkT's (& coincidently Eddie's) theory on why some teams win flags.

There is no correlation between what teams spend on their TPP and winning flags.

Ed knows the truth of this, MarkT however . . . .

 

[Bloben]

I was simply throwing out some facts that contradict MarkT's (& coincidently Eddie's) theory on why some teams win flags.

There is no correlation between what teams spend on their TPP and winning flags.

Ed knows the truth of this, MarkT however . . . .

I would think that winning games of football is directly related to the talent of players in the side and that having extra room in the TPP to retain and attract players is an absolute advantage.

Geelong are going to have some difficulty in retaining all nine of their All Australian players in the coming years and would love to have some concessions in their salary cap.

 

[carmi99]

argh, how many flags for Sheeds in 25 years, didn't have such a great GF record either.

Didn't Sheedy have one of the best GF recprds in the business?

Only guy that i can think of with a better record would be Mathews?

 

[MarkT]

As I too laugh at your simplistic view of the universe. Your swallowing of Collingwood mythology is almost Carltonesque.

The universe is complicated. Footy is simple. What do I swallow that is BS?

Anyhow, do I think Eddie would be happy to open 'everything' up?

No I don't.

Why?

Carlton cheated the cap and finished with the spoon.

Can’t see how that matters.

Collingwood regularly spend more on their TPP than teams with concessions.

?

How do those facts fit in with your theory on why teams win premierships?

My theory, to the extent I touched on it in this thread, is that the results are statistically mind boggling. Get a maths nerd to work out the odds of a given club winning the flag then expand that to 2 given clubs playing in 6 consecutive GF’s winning 4. Then figure the odds of an approx 7 year flag turnaround for start-up list concessions. Lots of things influence premierships. The stats are too big for my calculator.

You really do believe Eddie is doing this for the benefit of the competition and not for an advantage to Collingwood?

I am quite sure you can read. I reckon I’ve answered this about 100 times in this and other threads and more again in threads on similar themes.

The answer is NO. If I did I wouldn’t want him as president.

Eddie is doing this for Collingwood. Whether or not there are benefits elsewhere is another matter and how he sells his plan is another matter again.

Actually I gave you too much credit. Even Carlton supporters wouldn't swallow that.

You gave me too much credit by making a stupid impossible to fathom assumption that I have clearly indicated to be false time and again? Gee lucky me. Save your credit Jeff. It’s worthless.

 

[cs61]

Funny thing is Eddie has been Collingwood president for only 9 years. Anyone older than 15 knows nothing has changed in this regard over the last 9 years. It’s all because of Eddie they say. I suppose it was once all because of the bloke on the footys. In 1990 the Sun had a middle page liftout of the Copeland count round by round and compared to Brownlow votes. Tony Shaw was King of Moomba.

You better pray we don’t win flag. If you don’t remember 1990 you aint seen nuthin’ yet and 1990 will pale by the time Eddie is through.

Bla bla bla.

Again avoiding the point.

What Eddie is saying is absurd, and hilarious considering he is complaining about injustices within the same article. That is an observation, what that has to do with anything else I'm not sure.

Complains and whinges yet heaps and takes any advantage Collingwood has had, such as him being the host of the footy and being able to blindly defend them on each occasion, or the favourable 'draw' which is always kind to Collingwood.

That is what the issue is about, but you guys turn it around into "its just because we're collingwood". I couldn't care less about Collingwood, but I can't stand Eddie and he is a hypocrit who most in the media are too scared to attack.

 

[JeffDunne]

I would think that winning games of football is directly related to the talent of players in the side and that having extra room in the TPP to retain and attract players is an absolute advantage.

Show me the figures that illustrate talent is directly proportional to the amount you spend?

I agree with the general concept in that it's why we have a cap - i.e. so teams with a financial advantage can't load up on talent - but that's to prevent teams spending multiples of what others spend, not fractions. The reality is that even with the concessions, the TPP difference between the teams is minimal and most seasons Collingwood are one of the largest spenders. Ed's whinging on this has more to do with justifying failure than it does his concern over concessions. His timing on when he started the public campaign and his initial vote for the concessions are ample evidence.

 

[morgoth]

Agree Jeff. But hard to blame him. They have won one flag in 50 years. Have just re signed a coach who is nearing a decade of failure (bizarre move to say the least!) and Eddie checks out a list that has guys like Presti and Wakes down back and guys like Rocca, Shaws, Thomas and Fraser still getting senoir gigs. I can see why he is chasing for a big advantage.

Go have a look at your list tosser. You will spoon in the next 3 years and as for coaches, pffffftttt, Matty Knights, DUD.

 

[JeffDunne]

Why?

Has he ever voted or taken a proposal to the commission to abolish the draft or the cap?

Collingwood profit from equalisation - it hasn't harmed them at all.

My theory, to the extent I touched on it in this thread, is that the results are statistically mind boggling. Get a maths nerd to work out the odds of a given club winning the flag then expand that to 2 given clubs playing in 6 consecutive GF’s winning 4. Then figure the odds of an approx 7 year flag turnaround for start-up list concessions. Lots of things influence premierships. The stats are too big for my calculator.

Change the parameter in your equation from "clubs with concessions" to "non-Victorian clubs" and do you get the same answer (you don't need a calculator if you're using a computer)?

Am I to presume being "non-Victorian" influences your chances to win a flag?

 

[thatday]

This is just funny, Eddie is doing what he should be doing, he is the president of a football club, he should only be doing things that benefit the football club. He doesn't have to give a shit about the rest of the league, he does whats best for Collingwod. Every president should be doing the same, and if they aren't they aren't doing the job they are meant to be doing.

 

[morgoth]

Has he ever voted or taken a proposal to the commission to abolish the draft or the cap?

Collingwood profit from equalisation - it hasn't harmed them at all.


Change the parameter in your equation from "clubs with concessions" to "non-Victorian clubs" and do you get the same answer (you don't need a calculator if you're using a computer)?

Am I to presume being "non-Victorian" influences your chances to win a flag?

Nope equalisation has not harmed us but neither would a free for all. With good management we will be strong regardless due to our scale, simple as that.

Enjoy Frankston, it really is a good fit.

 

[morgoth]

This is just funny, Eddie is doing what he should be doing, he is the president of a football club, he should only be doing things that benefit the football club. He doesn't have to give a shit about the rest of the league, he does whats best for Collingwod. Every president should be doing the same, and if they aren't they aren't doing the job they are meant to be doing.

But Butters always did what the AFL wanted. He was the AFL lap dog. How do you expect Aint fans to understand what a club prez is meant to do?

 

[JeffDunne]

I don't think anyone is having a go at Ed for doing what's best for Collingwood.

It's his insulting of our intelligence we're having a go at.

It might sell with his constituency, clearly it does, but to the rest of us it's patronising at best.

 

[thatday]

I don't think anyone is having a go at Ed for doing what's best for Collingwood.

It's his insulting of our intelligence we're having a go at.

It might sell with his constituency, clearly it does, but to the rest of us it's patronising at best.

Do you blame him for putting this proposal forward? As i said, he is doing whats best for Collingwood, and if he wasn't i'd be pissed off.

 

[morgoth]

he does not give a stuff about you JD. Is that so hard to grasp.

Do you see us going on about your proposal to play games on the GC? Good luck, your club is looking after itself. Same as us.