Spoon in '08??

[Smyth94]

The thread isn't about winning flags...its whether or not we're a spoon side. Crap midfield or not, we're not a spoon side.

Watson's footskills arn't as ordinary as a lot of people think. IMO he's actually improved a lot since last year.

Also, I don't believe in this "going through lists" rubbish. Looking at someone's list is like looking at a company's balance sheet - its just a snapshot of quality/performance at a given point in time. Collingwood's list looked pretty ordinary last season which led many to tip them bottom four - now people are raving on how great Collingwood's list is.


This time next year our very same midfield could become fantastic.

 

[rines]

Where do you think we'll finish then

Sorry for late reply, been concentrating on other things. I guess we will all differ in opinion but I think we will finish 8-12 next year.

Jetta, Houli, Hislopm Winders, Monfries have proven nothing

I think winders proved a lot this year. his run off half back when not injured was the reason we won a lot of early games. the other 4 have shown exactly the right amount according to friends who watch BB closely for 1/2nd year players. monfries was great in 07 and dropped off a bit 08 so i reserve judgement. but he has shown he is not a dud.

Michael played his best footy long ago.

This is very true, although he was good enough to do his job which enabled ryder and fletcher to play up the ground. very rarely did he get spanked this year (don't feel the need to list them please..)

Watson and McVeigh are arguably the two worst 'best 2 midfielders' at any club.

I think this is wrong. i personally love the way watson goes about it. he slimmed down, put the work in and was easily our best clearance player. his skills by hand are 100% and foot skills were improving week by week with training and confidence. I can't find the post atm but i think his "defensive" weakness is the result of a poorly coached midfield. he is not worse than scott west or sam mitchell. you can afford to have one slower mid except last year when regularly had 4. mcVeigh is speedy and hits a lead up forward almost every time. Has footy smarts and looks to bring the young kids in. i do conceed that they are definately not the best "best 2 mids" in the comp but they are not the worst.

Neither hille or Laycock would be in the best 10 rucks in the league based on last years performance.
that is true but as a combo they are not in the bottom 3. which is all i said.

Lloyd lucas and Fletcher all pushing up into their 30's next year. It is proven that once past 30 you are more succeptible to injury and less likely to play your best footy consistently (Though Fletch and Lucas did a great job this year).
Another person who doesn't appreciate lloyd did ok last year and will be even better this year. was played out of position with absolute crap delivery in to him and still came top 5 goal kickers in the league!! All three have got 3 years left, which means the can be included in arguments why we won't win the spoon NEXT year...

Hird gone.
This is undisputed. this will leave a gaping hole. this can not be fixed, repaired or otherwise avoided. The loss of one player will not however plunge us teams such as richmond.

All points to another year down the bottom end if you ask me. I am hopeful that we see plenty of the youth next year. I really am confident that our 21 and under players are going to provide an awesome foundation for future flags though next year needs to be about getting games into and developing the crop of 10 gun youngsters we have.

Go Dons.
I agree we will be closer to the bottom than the top. Next year will all be about development for sure. I guess ultimately we are arguing semantics here... we both agree its going to be another long season of disappointment, i guess i just feel really strongly we won't win the spoon. I think we have enough talent to win 10-12 games next year.

See response included above.

 

[BluesCrusader]

Carlton of Melbourne will get the wooden spoon, more than likely Carlton. Essendon will play finals.

How much would you like on that?

 

[HighettBomber]

How well we do the next couple of years will come down to how well our young talent develops:

Winderlich, Monfries, Nash, Davey, Houli, Gumby, Jetta, Dempsey, Hislop, Ryder etc. all seem to have a lot of ability, we need them to show it consistently. A number of the above a particulalry quick, so hopefully this will become a strength for us in coming years, whereas at the moment our midfield is probably the slowest in the comp.

 

[strategy]

If all the players " step up " and not wait for someone else to do the" work " i cant see why the top 8 isnt a go .
They also have to learn to sprint and shoot better when going for goals with and without pressure.They also have to tell each other if they are under pressure when they have the ball .In otherwords talk to each other loud and quick.
They also have to work hard at covering the defence when needed and back themselves .
They also have to be tougher and quicker at getting the ball in the centre and players all over the field have to hold onto their tackles and tackle harder so the opposition know all year they have been tackled .

 

[SOT4]

It is easy to look at. You make sure the midfield changes opponents and picks up the loose guys. It is what Collingwood do week in and week out and one of the reasons they went as far as they did.
Geez guyz think outside the square a little.

I was being sarcastic in reference to the comment that guys are either fast or not, should've put a but thought the ludicrous nature of my statement would cover that haha.

Jobe can get quicker if it is an area that he wants to focus on. He wont ever get explosive pace but his ability to repeatedly sprint can certainly be improved which will lead to a greater ability to stay with his man. He'll never break away from packs like Judd or Foley but he wont stay as unaccountable as he currently is if he works on speed.

 

[pazza]

9th.

Finals in either '09 or '10.

 

[Smyth94]

I was being sarcastic in reference to the comment that guys are either fast or not, should've put a but thought the ludicrous nature of my statement would cover that haha.

Jobe can get quicker if it is an area that he wants to focus on. He wont ever get explosive pace but his ability to repeatedly sprint can certainly be improved which will lead to a greater ability to stay with his man. He'll never break away from packs like Judd or Foley but he wont stay as unaccountable as he currently is if he works on speed.

You're clueless.

You're either fast or your not period. If I was fast, I'd be winning Stawell Gifts. I'm slower than a snail, I could train for years and only improve my pace marginally.

Jobe is not fast, will never be fast, it will never be a weapon of his. Even if he concentrated on pace all summer for a few off-seasons he would still never be as fast as a Winderlich.

Maybe if we had more of the ball Jobe wouldn't look so slow. There's a thought.

 

[SM10]

Its really unpredictable ATM, we will just have to wait and see what Knights does for us.

But on paper I think we are around 9th-12th.

 

[SOT4]

You're clueless.

You're either fast or your not period. If I was fast, I'd be winning Stawell Gifts. I'm slower than a snail, I could train for years and only improve my pace marginally.

Jobe is not fast, will never be fast, it will never be a weapon of his. Even if he concentrated on pace all summer for a few off-seasons he would still never be as fast as a Winderlich.

Maybe if we had more of the ball Jobe wouldn't look so slow. There's a thought.

Umm no champ I'm not. This is an area that I do know about. People can improve pace. Its stupid to say they cannot. I'm pretty sure I said he'll never get expplosive pace, but Jobe can improve his repeat sprints endurance which will mean he can keep up with his man. Did I say he'd be as fast as WInderlich? No I didn't. if you think I did re-read my post. If Jobe focused on pace eh would improve his pace. He dpoesn't need to be as fast as Winderlich because he plays a different role, he simply needs to be able to keep with his man. Saying your either fast or your not is too simplistic.

If you trained for years I can guarentee you you would substantially improve your pace. Once again, I'm not saying that he can be fast in the Davey, Winderlich mold, but he can be not slow.

 

[Smyth94]

Umm no champ I'm not. This is an area that I do know about. People can improve pace. Its stupid to say they cannot. I'm pretty sure I said he'll never get expplosive pace, but Jobe can improve his repeat sprints endurance which will mean he can keep up with his man. Did I say he'd be as fast as WInderlich? No I didn't. if you think I did re-read my post. If Jobe focused on pace eh would improve his pace. He dpoesn't need to be as fast as Winderlich because he plays a different role, he simply needs to be able to keep with his man. Saying your either fast or your not is too simplistic.

If you trained for years I can guarentee you you would substantially improve your pace. Once again, I'm not saying that he can be fast in the Davey, Winderlich mold, but he can be not slow.

I didn't mean to imply that Jobe can't get faster at all, what I'm trying to say is (and I get frustrated when people attack Jobe for being too slow) Watson's pace (or lack of) is a minor issue in the scheme of things. If we can develop a game plan that utilises Jobe's attributes whilst at the same time manages his weaknesses (anaerobic endurance) his lack of pace will become less and less of an issue.

In 2000, our midfield was very slow, it didn't matter much because we always had the ball and our skill level and decision making was very very good.

Our current midfield is much, much more faster than our premiership midfield of 7 years ago however, our decision making and skill level is no where near that of our 2000 side.