Suicide

[mr bagcroft]

This is a topic which has always interested me, on a number of levels. Not that I have ever attempted it or even planned it myself. More the thought of it as a concept, on a philosophical level, and also the sociological implications.

Recently in every Majak Daw 'incident' related thread on this site, it seems like people are trotting out the common myths and misconceptions about suicide with regards to the male:female imbalance and the 'reporting on it leads to more of it'.

The facts are that men commit suicide far more often than women do. In Australia is is 3:1. People say, 'that is because men don't talk about mental health often enough'. Perhaps. Is it also possible that men in general just have a more difficult life than women these days? Oh, we can't talk about that. In fact we will censor and attack you for even suggesting it.

'Oh but we need to talk about mental health'. Give me a break. Stop with the hypocrisy and virtue signaling. We either talk about why men might be depressed, or we are taking the piss with the entire 'conversation'.

As for the 'reporting it leads to more of it', everybody now knows that Majak's 'incident' was an attempted suicide. What difference does it make by saying 'incident' rather than attempted suicide? I can understand simply not reporting it at all (especially in lower profile cases), but if you are going to run news stories on it, why the euphemisms if everybody knows?

Absolutely fricken' spot on.
"lets talk about mens health"...as long as it suits our beliefs or agenda.
Just an extention of the ridiculous Leftist bullshit we have to put up with these days.
.....FREE SPEECH! As long as I dont think its offensive to someone. Possibly, maybe, sort of , you never know.....just go away.

 

[Scotland]

This is a topic which has always interested me, on a number of levels. Not that I have ever attempted it or even planned it myself. More the thought of it as a concept, on a philosophical level, and also the sociological implications.

Recently in every Majak Daw 'incident' related thread on this site, it seems like people are trotting out the common myths and misconceptions about suicide with regards to the male:female imbalance and the 'reporting on it leads to more of it'.

The facts are that men commit suicide far more often than women do. In Australia is is 3:1. People say, 'that is because men don't talk about mental health often enough'. Perhaps. Is it also possible that men in general just have a more difficult life than women these days? Oh, we can't talk about that. In fact we will censor and attack you for even suggesting it.

'Oh but we need to talk about mental health'. Give me a break. Stop with the hypocrisy and virtue signaling. We either talk about why men might be depressed, or we are taking the piss with the entire 'conversation'.

As for the 'reporting it leads to more of it', everybody now knows that Majak's 'incident' was an attempted suicide. What difference does it make by saying 'incident' rather than attempted suicide? I can understand simply not reporting it at all (especially in lower profile cases), but if you are going to run news stories on it, why the euphemisms if everybody knows?

Good post, m2f.

Have only driven over the Bolte a couple of times, but IIRC it's not something you can easily fall off with the barriers in place. If you are on it one minute then in the river the next, it's deliberate. If a player was involved in a traffic accident on the bridge, it would be reported as exactly that. I'm 100% behind the club saying 'sensitive matter, no questions please' etc. but if it's known that he jumped it should be reported as such. Saying 'incident' just invites speculation and snooping IMO. The AFL media is full of ambulance chasers, they're not going to back off.

RE: the rest it's always about the why. Not too far from where I live in Perth a bloke in his 60s recently murdered his ex wife in her 50s and then took his own life. Horrible situation and everyone related who has commented publicly is at a loss how someone with a non violent nature would end up at that point.

The best football related mental health story I've seen is Dayne Beams on Foxtel. Brutally honest about his own struggles and full credit to him for that, most people couldn't do that in a public forum. If you want people talking about mental health, encourage them to really talk about it. If some things are OK to talk about but others not, you're going to have a problem.

 

[nicky]

I, unfortunately, know too many people that have taken their own life. One was my lifelong sister - closest person to me. Another was a girlfriend that i'd known for 15 years, another a lovely older lady and a guy i grew up with - although i've had nothing to do with him for over 15 years it happened very close to my soul mate sister taking her own life so felt it. I see his mum around, another person i never liked. We had nothing but contempt for each other but i saw her a few months ago and gave her my condolences, a hug and we cried.

Although i know more women that have taken their lives than men i agree that we need to look at wtf is going on. I'm just going to throw it out there but does that fact that it is pretty much not socially acceptable for men to cry a contributor? This isn't a dig at men because women put this pressure on men more than men do.

Like a little bit sucks sometimes so yeah.

I spent most of last year watching youtubes, lectures and reading up about suicide as a way to process what had happened. I found this very interesting lecture which i will try and find. It spoke about needing the trilogy of traits to be able to go through the act of suicide.

 

[Gough]

Once again we should be thankful of our gun laws. If Majak had ready access to a firearm the tone of this thread might be very different today.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Been reading through the Majak threads both on the main board and the North board.

A bit surprised by how many people have reported that they have attempted suicide in the past.

And then there is an even greater number, a remarkable number, speaking about their experiences with depression, psychiatrists, etc.

Just how prevalent is this in Australian society today?

 

[radiojake]

Been reading through the Majak threads both on the main board and the North board.

A bit surprised by how many people have reported that they have attempted suicide in the past.

And then there is an even greater number, a remarkable number, speaking about their experiences with depression, psychiatrists, etc.

Just how prevalent is this in Australian society today?

Huge

I know of three people in the last 6 months who have jumped infront of trains. One of them is a really close mate (and he somehow survived and is recovering reasonably well considering)

The other I didn't know personally but was told about them through their friends

It happens way more than that - nearly 3 attempts a week via train in Melbourne alone

 

[Run n Spread]

Absolutely fricken' spot on.
"lets talk about mens health"...as long as it suits our beliefs or agenda.
Just an extention of the ridiculous Leftist bullshit we have to put up with these days.
.....FREE SPEECH! As long as I dont think its offensive to someone. Possibly, maybe, sort of , you never know.....just go away.

True. Or just talk then shut up. No one is really serious.

 

[Run n Spread]

Having said that it is an important issue. Something that has become really immediate. It is important but I think something where the approach really needs to be gotten right.

 

[Shell]

This year- like 6 months of it was really low and i would say a. Was not depressed and b. Thought about it in the sense i fantasized about it, without being serious or making concrete plans. Im ok now but in the back of my mind it scares me i could go back to that place again..


A guy at work last year commited suicide. On the anniversary this year (is a day the whole school has a carnival) i just sat in my office and didnt participate. Just didnt feel right.

 

[MWPP]

The rates of completed suicide are much higher amongst doctors and medical students . This is due to a number of factors - knowledge, access to means , stigma, work pressures and stresses and personality traits . I’m glad there has been more awareness recently , but it’s still not recognised or talked about enough . Ironically , we make the worst patients

 

[Scotland]

This was harmless US mainstream TV in the 90s.

 

[utility]

https://priceonomics.com/the-professions-with-highest-and-lowest-suicide/

 

[Ok Boomer]

The facts are that men commit suicide far more often than women do. In Australia is is 3:1. People say, 'that is because men don't talk about mental health often enough'. Perhaps. Is it also possible that men in general just have a more difficult life than women these days? Oh, we can't talk about that. In fact we will censor and attack you for even suggesting it.

Men are demonised simply for being men, punished for being themselves and are laughed at when struggling while being lectured on how privileged they are to have an underpaying 40hour a week job with a whinging demanding partner that makes him miserable.

The problem will only get worse.

 

[Restricted Free Agent]

A guy at work last year commited suicide. On the anniversary this year (is a day the whole school has a carnival) i just sat in my office and didnt participate. Just didnt feel right.

The rates of completed suicide are much higher amongst doctors and medical students . This is due to a number of factors - knowledge, access to means , stigma, work pressures and stresses and personality traits . I’m glad there has been more awareness recently , but it’s still not recognised or talked about enough . Ironically , we make the worst patients

Suicide isn't talked enough in your professions but its literally never talked about at schools. (From my experiences at 3 schools in Melbourne) Schools are known and are breading grounds for mental health issues. The stress and expectations put on teenagers is too much. That on top of whatever is happening at school is a deadly combination. This stigma, this lack of knowledge, this lack of recourses resulted in the death of my friend. She was only 14. It's an indescribable feeling that feeling of loss, hopelessness. It's terrible.

A single conversation can save a life.

 

[MWPP]

Suicide isn't talked enough in your professions but its literally never talked about at schools. (From my experiences at 3 schools in Melbourne) Schools are known and are breading grounds for mental health issues. The stress and expectations put on teenagers is too much. That on top of whatever is happening at school is a deadly combination. This stigma, this lack of knowledge, this lack of recourses resulted in the death of my friend. She was only 14. It's an indescribable feeling that feeling of loss, hopelessness. It's terrible.

A single conversation can save a life.

This is so true unfortunately. I went to school in Perth and it was only briefly glossed over in Health Education ?in Year 9 and discussed again in a little more depth ?in Year 10 or 11 when medical students from Dr YES came to visit our school to talk about a bunch of issues including mental health/suicide. I got involved in Dr YES years later whilst I was at uni. We only visited a few schools though, and I have no idea what's available in other states.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss - so tragic

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Being in HR, a lot of people at work come to me when they're struggling with mental health issues. I find it hard to deal with because I'm not a trained counsellor, so all I can really do is offer them names and numbers to contact someone who can help them. I have to hear about a lot of personal issues from other people and it does weigh me down sometimes.

 

[William Wonka]

The rates of completed suicide are much higher amongst doctors and medical students . This is due to a number of factors - knowledge, access to means , stigma, work pressures and stresses and personality traits . I’m glad there has been more awareness recently , but it’s still not recognised or talked about enough . Ironically , we make the worst patients

I would wager the first two are the main factors.
Doctors also have the option to self euthanize when faced with terminal illness (very distinct from suicide) which would skew the numbers.

One of the reasons men commit suicide more than women is because the methods they choose are usually more effective.

 

[MWPP]

I would wager the first two are the main factors.
Doctors also have the option to self euthanize when faced with terminal illness (very distinct from suicide) which would skew the numbers.

One of the reasons men commit suicide more than women is because the methods they choose are usually more effective.

Yep . The gender difference in the rates of completed suicide is more insignificant amongst doctors than in the general population too .

 

[Off The Couch]

You would struggle to find a single aboriginal family that has not been touched in some way by suicide. It is so prevalent that no one is even shocked anymore when a death occurs.

 

[William Wonka]

The stress and expectations put on teenagers is too much.

Its ridiculous and disgusting.

Learning should be an enjoyable and relaxing experience.
There is NOTHING that you can do or not do scholastically in year 9/10/11 (or even 12 tbh) that will permanently damage your future.
If you miss an assignment or fail a test it will have zero impact on the rest of your life.

(Apologies raskolnikov but I speak the truth)

 

[mouncey2franklin]

This was harmless US mainstream TV in the 90s.

Holy s**t, that is gold.

 

[PP34]

Hard to speak for Majak Daw’s case because in the eyes of many blokes his life looks pretty good. Paid big bucks do play a game a great deal of Australian men fantasise about playing professionally since they were 6.

But I definitely understand why men continue to do it more than women. I view it as something that starts at a young age.

A lot of men grow up and realise their life isn’t going to involve that amazing career as a footy player or being ultra rich with the choice of any girl they desire.

Now girls have their own desires and dreams too. Women talk though. Maybe I’m being stereotypical and a bit naive but in my expifjwce women are far more

For me at least all my conversations with my mates involve sport, women and typical bloke stuff like what we did drinking some night a while ago. There’s probably one mate I’ve got who I’ve ever talked to about mental health. The rest don’t bring it up at all. We were all shocked when a bloke we’d known through basketball since our primary school days killed himself earlier this year. But it didn’t change anything for us. Nobody started asking one another how they’re all travelling mentally. I doubt anyone would have said anything deep and meaningful anyway.

Society always brings up how women are body shamed by magazines, ads etc. And they are right, women are. But for some reason society seems to ignore that males are also impacted negatively by magazines, ads, Instagram, pr0n etc.

In my school expedience too which is recent the level of depth that they go into mental health was fairly pathetic. I went to a boys school too where you’d expect them to be doing everything they can to go into depth about mental health. Instead our life talks so to speak were about not drinking too much, not taking drugs, STDs etc. When it came to drugs and alcohol they basically just acted like nobody would make bad decisions and have to deal with mental health issues as a result. So nobody is taught any sort of way to deal with it. Instead it’s just standard rubbish don’t do it message which has never worked.

The school system in general surely has to shoulder some of the blame. You’ve got kids being put under ridiculous pressure to succeed. They push the idea that you should know what you want to do after school by year 10-11. Instead of enjoying their last few years of high school, they’re wishing it would end quicker. Instead of encouraging you to get out and see the world they just want you getting the best score possible so their preference results look better. In my experience I’ve come out of uni, still worried I may end up doing something I won’t end up enjoying and I’m asking myself why the hell didn’t I take my time more going travelling etc.

And yes I don’t know if there’s some sort of proof that reporting about suicide in a case like Majak’s is harmful. I know it’s obviously a tough issue for his mates, teammates and family and I don’t think anyone would want to be the centre of attention when it came to suicide. But a case like his could easily be used to show blokes, particularly young blokes that you’re not the only ones struggling. I just feel like awareness and talking openly about it would be far more beneficial than this tip toeing around the matter.

 

[Plugger35]

High school were the best years of my life, luckily had a good group of mates so never got bullied, we were probably the bullies thinking back on it.

My problems started when I went to uni and I went from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond, my HS mates weren't around anymore.

Wasn't helped with people telling me that uni would be the best days of my life and you'd meet so many amazing people, yeah maybe back in the 60s.

I studied finance and did tutes with Asians that would speak their own languages to each other, hard to meet amazing people in those circumstances.

No Ronnie Chieng's in my tutes.

Hard to speak for Majak Daw’s case because in the eyes of many blokes his life looks pretty good. Paid big bucks do play a game a great deal of Australian men fantasise about playing professionally since they were 6.

But I definitely understand why men continue to do it more than women. I view it as something that starts at a young age.

A lot of men grow up and realise their life isn’t going to involve that amazing career as a footy player or being ultra rich with the choice of any girl they desire.

Now girls have their own desires and dreams too. Women talk though. Maybe I’m being stereotypical and a bit naive but in my expifjwce women are far more

For me at least all my conversations with my mates involve sport, women and typical bloke stuff like what we did drinking some night a while ago. There’s probably one mate I’ve got who I’ve ever talked to about mental health. The rest don’t bring it up at all. We were all shocked when a bloke we’d known through basketball since our primary school days killed himself earlier this year. But it didn’t change anything for us. Nobody started asking one another how they’re all travelling mentally. I doubt anyone would have said anything deep and meaningful anyway.

Society always brings up how women are body shamed by magazines, ads etc. And they are right, women are. But for some reason society seems to ignore that males are also impacted negatively by magazines, ads, Instagram, pr0n etc.

In my school expedience too which is recent the level of depth that they go into mental health was fairly pathetic. I went to a boys school too where you’d expect them to be doing everything they can to go into depth about mental health. Instead our life talks so to speak were about not drinking too much, not taking drugs, STDs etc. When it came to drugs and alcohol they basically just acted like nobody would make bad decisions and have to deal with mental health issues as a result. So nobody is taught any sort of way to deal with it. Instead it’s just standard rubbish don’t do it message which has never worked.

And yes I don’t know if there’s some sort of proof that reporting about suicide in a case like Majak’s is harmful. I know it’s obviously a tough issue for his mates, teammates and family and I don’t think anyone would want to be the centre of attention when it came to suicide. But a case like his could easily be used to show blokes, particularly young blokes that you’re not the only ones struggling. I just feel like awareness and talking openly about it would be far more beneficial than this tip toeing around the matter.

I had a rugby teammate that took his own life over 20 years ago, they told us it was a car accident initially, only came out later he killed himself.

No one talked about that stuff back then either, his brother played in the same team as me and we never broached that subject, what can you say?

We were teenagers back then but even now I wouldn't know what to say other than meaningless platitudes, just be there for them if they want to talk.

 

[PP34]

High school were the best years of my life, luckily had a good group of mates so never got bullied, we were probably the bullies thinking back on it.

Yeah that’s sort of what I was trying to say. Looking back now I’d love to be back in high school. I wished it would end quickly as I got into VCE all while ignoring that you’re with mates everyday you don’t have to worry about a lot of real world s**t

My problems started when I went to uni and I went from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond, my HS mates weren't around anymore.

Wasn't helped with people telling me that uni would be the best days of my life and you'd meet so many amazing people, yeah maybe back in the 60s.

I studied finance and did tutes with Asians that would speak their own languages to each other, hard to meet amazing people in those circumstances.

No Ronnie Chieng's in my tutes.

Similar experience here with uni. You see your mates far less and you’ve got a heap of confused blokes not really sure what they’re doing with their lives. Suddenly everything becomes a lot more real and you deal with real issues and there isn’t the same support network you have in high school. I see my mates a fair bit with sport still but it’s not the same as high school where you’d see each other daily.

I had a rugby teammate that took his own life over 20 years ago, they told us it was a car accident initially, only came out later he killed himself.

No one talked about that stuff back then either, his brother played in the same team as me and we never broached that subject, what can you say?

We were teenagers back then but even now I wouldn't know what to say other than meaningless platitudes, just be there for them if they want to talk.

Yeah that’s the problem. It’s so taboo that once something like that happens everyone is shocked but that’s about it.

 

[Shell]

Guy at my school was a complete shock. Was 50ish, teacher for 30 years had a wife and young daughter. Did it when he was on LSL was meant to go OS but didnt.