Suicide

[FlyingBurittoBro]

How could you disagree with this premise? Several people in this very thread have stated that they have abstained from suicide due to the people they believe they will 'leave behind'.



I've already posted a link to a very useful wiki page for anybody interested in anything to do with life/death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism

Basically, it seems to me that the only way that one could fear the 'consequences' for their loved ones of their passing is if they believe in a dualistic conception of their own existence. That is, they believe the 'universe' is something distinct from them, something which existed more or less as it is before they were born and will exist more or less as it is once they are dead.

I find such a conception of ones existence utterly absurd, and it still surprises me somewhat that seemingly-intelligent people can buy into it if they have given the matter any real thought (pun not intended).

Before you ask how else one could conceive of their own existence, read that link above. The tl;dr is that an alternative belief to the dualistic framework posited above is that our relationship with the 'universe' (which includes our loved ones) is entirely codependent (for want of better word). As radical as it might sound (especially to those who have never attempted to study ontology), some people - and this includes me - believe that what we know as the 'universe' is entirely dependent on our own subjective experience and therefore the idea that there is anything to be 'left behind' should we 'disappear' is unintelligible on a number of levels.

Before any turkeys come along and try to tear down anything I have written above (as it is a very brief explanation of a very deep topic), I will be more than happy to continue the minutiae of this tangent in the conversation in a dedicated thread. What I have posted above is simply meant to aid people like ppg05 who probably had no idea what the hell I was talking about in my earlier post. I'm not even in the ballpark of expert ontologist but I think what I posted above is a sufficient explanation (of my own beliefs) for this thread.

if fairdinkum kills himself we all disappear?

 

[fairdinkum]

if fairdinkum kills himself we all disappear?

Yes and no.

 

[Caesar]

Reminds me of the old joke about putting all the idealist philosophers in the world on a boat and drilling a hole in the hull. Either they become realists and fix the leak, or they all drown. Either way it's win-win.

 

[Cruyff14]

Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

[fairdinkum]

Reminds me of the old joke about putting all the idealist philosophers in the world on a boat and drilling a hole in the hull. Either they become realists and fix the leak, or they all drown. Either way it's win-win.

Compared to your usual work, that is champagne comedy.

It doesn't make sense and isn't funny, but it gets three *clings* from FD.

*cling* *cling* *cling*

 

[Caesar]

No surprises that you missed the point, I suppose.

 

[fairdinkum]

Stop derailing the thread, dude.

 

[nicky]

Oh please, everyone has a sob story to tell. Some just deal with shit better.

I have suicidal thoughts myself, but i wouldnt act on them. Life is up and down, most people deal with it.

I had to listen to a family friend share her sob story and depress everyone at a party last weekend. I wanted to hand the bith some ratsack. Its not my problem shes a drunk and her babys all screwed up and her BF left her. Its only a matter of time but at least she wont ruin any more of my sundays.

Spoilt bitches that make shit life decisions are not worthy of my compassion.

There's a difference between dealing with lifes ups and downs and being genuinely depressed. It seems like you're blurring them into the same thing. Good for you that you deal with lifes ups and downs with strategies that work for you. But there are people who are mentally ill and cannot just "deal with shit better".

You're probably referring to these folk

http://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com.au/

Difficult to work with clinically, a ****in' nightmare if family or friend

Absolutely. I have a close family member with that condition - it is ****ing horrid. Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to people with this disorder in the mental health system (industry? not sure the right word) and they're often put in the too hard basket. It's horrid for their family, friends and obviously a nightmare for the person with bpd.

I'm reading "stop walking on eggshells" which is about bpd. I recommend it to anyone who has someone close to them with this disorder.

Well if they dont get better then they should just **** off and die instead of spreading their misery and pain.

It sounds like you need help dealing with people with mental illness. Your attitude is diabolical, not only for someone with a mental illness and unfortunate enough to be apart of your life, but moreover, for yourself.

 

[Cruyff14]

It saddens me that there are some right pricks in this thread.

 

[vealesy]

It saddens me that there are some right pricks in this thread.

Good, so im right.

Thats settled.



All i did was offer my opinion and gave an honest explanation of what formed my opinion. I can repeat it in more graphic detail if you like.

Choking your dying mother back to life as she spits "this is all your fault you karmichael hunt" will form a differing view on the subject to most others. So jokes can be made about wasting good scotch and good pills, but i cant call cowards gutless?

Sit there and imagine that happening with your own mother when you were 23.

Then get off your high horses and stop acting like i dont know anything about "mental illness".

 

[j0rdy1]

Had serious thoughts of killing myself at the start of this year, had the rope tied and was on my stairs in my house if I had of stepped forward wouldn't be here today. Found out a week later that my sister was pregnant and haven't looked back since, hadn't really thought of what I would do to my family and the few friends that would actually give a shit about me if I killed myself.

After seeing my newborn nephew for the first time I regret even thinking about taking my own life, but I understand why people might decide to kill themselves.

 

[stmookeyj]

Had a mate who unfortunately did this close to 2 years ago now. Basically to cut a long story short there was an accusation that he was involved as an accomplice in a crime in another state, and basically he got spooked over the prospect of prison. The saddest part of that was that his mother who couldn't bear life without him (I believe she was at least separated if not divorced) was in the same car when they gassed themselves.

Fear does drive people to do things you might not expect, and I guess suicide is one of them.


I've only considered it once myself, after screwing up a decent relationship with a female friend (which really should not have been more than a friendship)......but I haven't truly felt happy since the parents divorced in 1996.

 

[TheStinger]

A great doco on the subject.

 

[nicky]

Good, so im right.

Thats settled.



All i did was offer my opinion and gave an honest explanation of what formed my opinion. I can repeat it in more graphic detail if you like.

Choking your dying mother back to life as she spits "this is all your fault you karmichael hunt" will form a differing view on the subject to most others. So jokes can be made about wasting good scotch and good pills, but i cant call cowards gutless?

Sit there and imagine that happening with your own mother when you were 23.

Then get off your high horses and stop acting like i dont know anything about "mental illness".

Wasn't it you that said everyone has a sob story?

It's obvious you've formed your opinions on this topic from some trauma but they're still rubbish. Yes you've been through something tough but that doesn't mean you have any insight on the topic. I don't have any respect for any of your posts in this thread.

 

[Cruyff14]

Good, so im right.

Thats settled.



All i did was offer my opinion and gave an honest explanation of what formed my opinion. I can repeat it in more graphic detail if you like.

Choking your dying mother back to life as she spits "this is all your fault you karmichael hunt" will form a differing view on the subject to most others. So jokes can be made about wasting good scotch and good pills, but i cant call cowards gutless?

Sit there and imagine that happening with your own mother when you were 23.

Then get off your high horses and stop acting like i dont know anything about "mental illness".

Whatever.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Yeh sounds about right.

They shit me because they dump all their shit on you for attention. I detatch myself from people like that pretty quickly, it never ends up well for anyone involved.

Hence why I have no problem with them offing themselves.

The reasons for suicide are often more concrete, brain studies have shown an overabundance of serotonin in the pre-frontal cortex of suicidal patients. This, rather than whiny bitching, is most correlative with suicide.

 

[vealesy]

So?

They still whinge about everything, or appear to be upset by life, and people have to let them go on and on incase they say something that tips them over the edge and then they might feel guilty.

Its PC bullshit. I like being the prick, so if anyone i knew came and told me "im suicidal" i would retort "so wtf you waiting for you weak campaigner?" Wether they have a brain condition or not. I only saved my mother for my younger siblings sake. And i didnt want responsibility for her debts.

Im not the only one who thinks like this. Deal with it. There are other options to suicide. And if there isnt in some cases, be done with it already, its not hard to jump in front of a train*. It wont hurt you, just every other person that loves you.

*family friends dad did this when i was a youngin. Probably too young to understand why someone who seemed happy would do this. It affected me. It made me think of things i shouldnt have had to at a young age. It was a gutless and selfish thing to do. **** him.

 

[bunsen burner]

So?

They still whinge about everything, or appear to be upset by life, and people have to let them go on and on incase they say something that tips them over the edge and then they might feel guilty.

Come on, that's just silly (having to tip toe around them).

Its PC bullshit.

Actually, it's called depression. It's medically acknowledged and is serious.

Im not the only one who thinks like this.

God invented more than one dumb arse. It's not just you, you know.

 

[Brad Goodman]

I like being the prick.

Naaaahh...

 

[liam_13]

I knew a kid when I was younger who committed suicide at 11 years of age. Because he was being bullied senseless everyday. How ****ing selfish

I knew a 16 year old girl who was spat on repeatedly on her last ever bus ride, and called a "****" a "whore" and had her body laughed at. She committed suicide later that night. How ****ing selfish

And I also met a man a week before he committed suicide, after his wife took off with another man (and took the kids with her) then got her extended family to abuse him and create rumours, making him basically an outcast in his suburn, a place where everyone thought they knew everyone and hence thought it was their place to comment. Again, how selfish

It's not the best way for someone to go, and the grief it causes the family/friends is unimaginable. But if you haven't been in that situation, a situation where you have been pushed to your limits and you have been relentlessly told by a minority of people that you are not good enough (even though most people don't believe that) for this world - so much so that you irrationally believe you are not good enough - then you have no right to say it's gutless or cowardly imo. Some people on here no doubt have considered/attempted suicide, and I feel for you people, but I guess there would be two types
1) the ones who consider people who actually went through with it selfish/cowardly
2) the ones who understand just what it would've been like to actually go through with it

I'm lucky enough to have not been in a situation like that, always been a relatively happy person (compared to others) - and so I am not about to sit in a corner and speak ill of dead people who may as well have been tortured in their lives. Honestly, how can you drive a 11 year old to such pains that he thinks the best thing is to kill himself? That there is imo mental illness, the irrationality and the absolute depression, and that is the issue that we all think we understand, but we actually don't.

 

[vealesy]

Yeh kids are totally different. Everything i have written about relates to adult suicide only.

 

[Hodgepodge]

So?

They still whinge about everything, or appear to be upset by life, and people have to let them go on and on incase they say something that tips them over the edge and then they might feel guilty.

Not the suicidal people I've met. I have intervened in two suicides, and I unplugged the hose from the car and lied to her that she wouldn't have killed herself anyway. She went to a lot of trouble to make sure she wasn't found in time. The other one told me that she'd taken a drug overdose but she didn't cry about her feelings. And just about every famous person I know didn't exhibit any suicidal thoughts publicly either.

Its PC bullshit. I like being the prick, so if anyone i knew came and told me "im suicidal" i would retort "so wtf you waiting for you weak silly?" Wether they have a brain condition or not. I only saved my mother for my younger siblings sake. And i didnt want responsibility for her debts.

In which case you'd be glad that she talked or threatened suicide before she successfully completed it. 90% of suicidal people are actually pretty ambivalent about dying, so it's natural that they'd want to express their plans to others in order to seek alternatives that they haven't been able to find on their own. I don't know why you think this is PC bullshit?

Im not the only one who thinks like this. Deal with it. There are other options to suicide.

There's other options to a lot of things, but there's so much of human behaviour that is unconscious. Choice, and options, are often invoked by organisations that prey on these behaviours and vices and exploit them. Gaming venues, fast food restaurants, etc.

And even so, suicide isn't normally a considered choice, it's seen as one of two very negative options. Again, the analogy of jumping out of a burning building to avoid flames is a good one.

 

[vealesy]

If they cant express their thoughts, then they are weak.

Celebs? The more that kill themselves the better.

 

[vealesy]

If my mother did kill herself i would still curse her name to this day.

 

[Hodgepodge]

The Big 4 Myths

1. "You'd have to be out of your mind to die by suicide." In fact, one can be coherent while undergoing some sort of mental break that leads to seeing death as "a comfort to others and to themselves." You don't have to be drunk, psychotic, demented, or delirious.
2. "Most people who die by suicide leave a note." In fact, three-quarters don't. Some of those notes, surprisingly, contain "considerable positive emotion" along with the negative ones.
3. "If people want to die by suicide, we can't stop them." In fact, barriers on bridges, automatic gun bans, and restrictions on the number of pills per package have been shown to cut down the number of suicides. The wish for death and the wish for life co-exist, and often one attempt does not mean there will be another.
4. "It's just a cry for help." Suicide talk does not indicate a low-risk situation. Still, studies have shown that once-suicidal individuals who received "caring letters," or even impersonal postcards expressing concern, engaged in fewer subsequent suicidal behaviors.