Autopsy Suns loss & Vent Thread

[Juddalenko]

I'd typed out a rant, but accidentally clicked the back button on my mouse - kinda synonymous with Carlton's season. I'll surmise with the following example:

In the 2000's we were the worst team in the competition. I still remember Darren Hulme trying to extract the footy from under packs, young and pretty ordinary players trying their guts out in 100 point floggings. I went home from those matches knowing that my team had tried their best - they simply weren't good enough. This team has more skill in its left pinky than our 2000s teams had. If there is one thing I cannot excuse in a football club - it is not trying your best. A CUT-THROAT game against 2nd year kids (with half their team out) and MY TEAM trots out there and serves up that performance - no accountability, no guts, no pressure.

I will always buy my membership, and always support my team...but hot-damn, somebody stick a hot poker up these players rear ends!

 

[Sin City]

I really liked Hulmey, real goer.

 

[Silvagnis]

I really liked Hulmey, real goer.

Ben Kennedy?

 

[The Grover]

Absolutely agree with a previous poster Warnock has to be traded. Cannot carry 3 supposedly good ruckmen on the list. Recruit a mature age ruckman on the rookie list as our 3rd stringer.

Unfortunately getting warnock was a massive mistake, costing us our second rounder in what was a super draft. Missed Beams, Hannebury, Redden.

what craps me is we had 8-10 years to build a great list & I believe we have fallen well short.

The 3 No.1 draft picks we picked will not end up being the best player from those drafts.

If hard, bold decisions need to be made I don't think ratten is the man.

 

[blueboy25]

After the weekends loss I know how supporting Richmond must feel

 

[Gary Wilson's Helmet]

Sums up pretty much everything I've read here, but when you boil it all down, all I have to say about Saturday night is... 'F*** it!' http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/the-peoples-elbow-xxii-it/

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Sums up pretty much everything I've read here, but when you boil it all down, all I have to say about Saturday night is... 'F*** it!' http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/the-peoples-elbow-xxii-it/

Yeah.... F*** it!!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The 3 No.1 draft picks we picked will not end up being the best player from those drafts.

You don't guarantee the best player of their year when you use a number one pick, you select a safe bet.

I can't think of any number one pick who is definitely the best player of their draft year. Riewoldt is close but Cox was taken in the rookie draft that year. Goddard too is close but it is arguable.

 

[Sin City]

You don't guarantee the best player of their year when you use a number one pick, you select a safe bet.

I can't think of any number one pick who is definitely the best player of their draft year. Riewoldt is close but Cox was taken in the rookie draft that year. Goddard too is close but it is arguable.

I agree with that, you don't take any risks with a number one pick.

Regardless of that, Murphy is the best player from his draft.

 

[The Facepainter]

Take your pick. Apparently it's already been decided he's delisted at the end of the season, or Thornton has already decided he's leaving.

Sad as TBird has been a solid citizen at CFC without being a star.
Hope he gets a chance elsewhere and gets to 200 games

 

[The Facepainter]

SO.. I have been away skiing for 3 days with no internet/TV. SO can someone please explain to me WHAT THE **** HAPPENED??!!

Apparently the tennis professionals are not paid enough?

 

[rampar]

The last time I remember them doing something like this was back in 2009 when we publicly dropped Heath Scotland and Nick Stevens. Stevens was gone at the end of the year due to an injury but it was possibly the best thing that ever happened in Heath's career.

I think Carazzo copped it too? Been a different player since.

 

[The Facepainter]

The lead story on the Channel 7 news tonight (outside of the breaking news of an armed robbery at Myer) was Ratten's future. This came ahead of the report on the death of Neil Armstrong. No golden run here. Just more & more pressure from the media to hopefully claim another coaching scalp. Some of the media are like vultures & they know they have a captive audience for this sort of thing.

Who did Neil Armstrong play for?

 

[Tanks_Alot]

There's no such thing as a best player from the draft imo. Murphy was a gun choice, and justifies his #1 pick. But Kennedy has also turned out to be another gun, do you rate the mid or the key forward??? Then there's Pendles as well. Daisy to a lesser extent. All 4 are gun players, you can't separate them (well maybe Daisy isn't as good as the other 3), but people will all have a different opinion on who the best is.

Going back to trading Gibbs, relax, it's not going to happen, I just wouldn't mind if we could get an early first rounder for him, I won't miss him. Here's why, he hasn't given his all for his club and his team mates. He likes to run his mouth but doesn't back it up on the field. For a guy with as much experience as he has, he should know not to go to ground from a little touch when he's the last defender, more importantly, he didn't disguise his boundary line attempt enough either, had it gone over, it would've been deliberate anyway. Then doesn't even put his hands up to try and touch Caddy's kick just jogs in front of him like a nutcase. Should've just gathered and held the ball up, he would've been tackled immediately, no prior opportunity, so would've been bounced.

Then there's the Richmond incident, again doesn't want to wear the tackle or bump, so he rotates his body and stretches out with his hands so it gives the Richmond players a chance to steal it from him and again, LUCKILY he got his fingertips to it.

And it's not just those incidents, those only really stand out because of the ramifications (copping a goal and ALMOST copping a goal), but he does this all over the field, waits for opposition players to pick the ball up so he can lay a cheap tackle instead of going in hard to win the ball.

These sort of lacklustre efforts filter out to the whole group, Gibbs is seen as a leader at the club, so when he doesn't wear the tackles, or go in hard to win the ball when it's his time that sends a bad message to the rest of the players who trust him to lead by example and do these things.

He came out at the start of the year and pumped himself up, and got it from the coach and captain as well that he was ready for an outstanding year. IMO, only really good games came in round 20 and 21. Then we always get the "take that you Gibbs bashers!" comments, I literally lol when I see these type of comments. In what universe does 2 good games make up for 20 average games? Tell me, in what universe? When the season's almost over, not good enough, he buys into his own hype far too much. People will say "oh he was played out of position" well guess what, unless you haven't watched any Carlton games over the last few years, Gibbs hasn't really ever been played as a permanent mid, he's always had to fill in a role as a tagger, defender and some times forward. I can't recall him having a worse year than this year relative to his experience. He should be getting better at playing these roles, not worse. There is a reason Ratten doesn't throw him in as a permanent mid and it's not because of our injuries.

We have got to be cruel to be kind with him, we can't drop him anymore the season's over, so offer him up for trade, let's see what we can get, if we can get something really good, then get it, if not, then we keep him but he will know that he's on notice and that may force him to realise that those sorts of efforts are unacceptable. Something MUST be done to change the way he goes about it otherwise shit like that is going to continue to happen.

Lucas is another like this, trust me this guy is not worth persisting with he has a soft mentality and isn't as talented as Gibbs either. We need to cut our losses with this guy imo and trade him before his value drops even further. Third year in the system and still cannot break into the most injury depleted Carlton side in years, should tell you all you need to know about his determination right there.

 

[Silvagnis]

Think I'll go with Shane Rogers on Gibbs and Lucas.

 

[ESKIE]

Our goal kicking has been a problem for years, years

 

[gardiner stand]

There's no such thing as a best player from the draft imo. Murphy was a gun choice, and justifies his #1 pick. But Kennedy has also turned out to be another gun, do you rate the mid or the key forward??? Then there's Pendles as well. Daisy to a lesser extent. All 4 are gun players, you can't separate them (well maybe Daisy isn't as good as the other 3), but people will all have a different opinion on who the best is.

Going back to trading Gibbs, relax, it's not going to happen, I just wouldn't mind if we could get an early first rounder for him, I won't miss him. Here's why, he hasn't given his all for his club and his team mates. He likes to run his mouth but doesn't back it up on the field. For a guy with as much experience as he has, he should know not to go to ground from a little touch when he's the last defender, more importantly, he didn't disguise his boundary line attempt enough either, had it gone over, it would've been deliberate anyway. Then doesn't even put his hands up to try and touch Caddy's kick just jogs in front of him like a nutcase. Should've just gathered and held the ball up, he would've been tackled immediately, no prior opportunity, so would've been bounced.

Then there's the Richmond incident, again doesn't want to wear the tackle or bump, so he rotates his body and stretches out with his hands so it gives the Richmond players a chance to steal it from him and again, LUCKILY he got his fingertips to it.

And it's not just those incidents, those only really stand out because of the ramifications (copping a goal and ALMOST copping a goal), but he does this all over the field, waits for opposition players to pick the ball up so he can lay a cheap tackle instead of going in hard to win the ball.

These sort of lacklustre efforts filter out to the whole group, Gibbs is seen as a leader at the club, so when he doesn't wear the tackles, or go in hard to win the ball when it's his time that sends a bad message to the rest of the players who trust him to lead by example and do these things.

He came out at the start of the year and pumped himself up, and got it from the coach and captain as well that he was ready for an outstanding year. IMO, only really good games came in round 20 and 21. Then we always get the "take that you Gibbs bashers!" comments, I literally lol when I see these type of comments. In what universe does 2 good games make up for 20 average games? Tell me, in what universe? When the season's almost over, not good enough, he buys into his own hype far too much. People will say "oh he was played out of position" well guess what, unless you haven't watched any Carlton games over the last few years, Gibbs hasn't really ever been played as a permanent mid, he's always had to fill in a role as a tagger, defender and some times forward. I can't recall him having a worse year than this year relative to his experience. He should be getting better at playing these roles, not worse. There is a reason Ratten doesn't throw him in as a permanent mid and it's not because of our injuries.

We have got to be cruel to be kind with him, we can't drop him anymore the season's over, so offer him up for trade, let's see what we can get, if we can get something really good, then get it, if not, then we keep him but he will know that he's on notice and that may force him to realise that those sorts of efforts are unacceptable. Something MUST be done to change the way he goes about it otherwise shit like that is going to continue to happen.

Lucas is another like this, trust me this guy is not worth persisting with he has a soft mentality and isn't as talented as Gibbs either. We need to cut our losses with this guy imo and trade him before his value drops even further. Third year in the system and still cannot break into the most injury depleted Carlton side in years, should tell you all you need to know about his determination right there.

while youre on the subject of soft yarran garlett need to be mentioned especially yarran he is as pea hearted as he is exciting with ball in hand

 

[albyg]

while youre on the subject of soft yarran garlett need to be mentioned especially yarran he is as pea hearted as he is exciting with ball in hand

I would have agreed with you 2 years ago about Yarran, but he has improved heaps from then, yes he isnt the hardest bloke around but have seen him back into packs this year. Garlett definitely needs to improve here, however for someone that thin do you expect him to be harder? If he gets bigger he loses his speed and agility, my biggest problem with Garlett this year were his lack of pressure acts, yes he chased, but NOT with intent, hence as another posted said he should have been given a rocket and dropped.

 

[pepalenko]

I would have agreed with you 2 years ago about Yarran, but he has improved heaps from then, yes he isnt the hardest bloke around but have seen him back into packs this year. Garlett definitely needs to improve here, however for someone that thin do you expect him to be harder?

Doesn't stop Kade Simpson.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Yep have to agree.with trading Gibbs, but this is Rattens fault as well Gibbs, Garlett etc had to be dropped a long time ago but our coach has his favs, they might like him but only because he lets them get away with playing like shit. They dont respect him and thats the important thing, too many times over the years we have done this it speaks volumes about the team and the coach.

I loved Ratten as a player one of the hardest and most courageous players to have pulled on the Navy Blue, he coached our club in our darkest times and got us to be a middle of the road team and we should thank him for that. But he is too buddy buddy with the players and the players know this and hence the shit they put up, they know there will be no punishment and for years have taken advantage of it.

We should put Gibbs + Yarran on the table along with Hampson + Warnock and try to get some good trades happening, hard decisions have to be made and the time was after Port bent us over. Sorry but my patience with Gibbs and his soft mental and physical attitude is up, we cannot afford too many soft passengers, Yarran is in the same boat as Gibbs both are soft down hill skiers.

We are such a mentally weak team its shocking, cant even string four wins in a row togwther, says a lot about our playing group and coaching staff, we are the new Richmond and Bulldogs.

Why put both of our key future players up for trade?? Yarran & Gibbs are our future talent regardless of what they may reach, we have to stay with them.
Gibbs - elite kick, some think he's soft, a few stupid actions (vs Gary against GC) But he gets in the right positions and gets free and has one of the best kicks at the club
Yarran - breaks the line, brilliant kick, runs all day, takes it on. I don't think he's a downhill skier he gets caught out on his defensive acts, but thats because he's not a backman, we're playing him there.

All of the problems you identified are not with their talent or skills, its mental acts which can be changed, some may think its too late for Gibbs but that's crap, put him in the midfield and get Mick to make him accountable for his spot in the side and he'll turn around i hope.
Trading Yarran is just not an option
Gibbs will not be traded

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why put both of our key future players up for trade?? Yarran & Gibbs are our future talent regardless of what they may reach, we have to stay with them.
Gibbs - elite kick, some think he's soft, a few stupid actions (vs Gary against GC) But he gets in the right positions and gets free and has one of the best kicks at the club
Yarran - breaks the line, brilliant kick, runs all day, takes it on. I don't think he's a downhill skier he gets caught out on his defensive acts, but thats because he's not a backman, we're playing him there.

All of the problems you identified are not with their talent or skills, its mental acts which can be changed, some may think its too late for Gibbs but that's crap, put him in the midfield and get Mick to make him accountable for his spot in the side and he'll turn around i hope.
Trading Yarran is just not an option
Gibbs will not be traded

You'd need to get offers to good to refuse to trade the silky players on our list. You can't build a team around just Robbo types. We would not get what we paid for them and not get what they potentially mean to our team, so a trade is extremely unlikely, unless they request it themselves.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You'd need to get offers to good to refuse to trade the silky players on our list. You can't build a team around just Robbo types. We would not get what we paid for them and not get what they potentially mean to our team, so a trade is extremely unlikely, unless they request it themselves.

Dangerfield for Gibbs
and
Yarran for Shuey
they can sprinkle some first round draft picks along the way as well

After all players ALWAYS want to return to their home state, im pretty sure they spend their entire lives trying to get back there, they;d push these trades through on those grounds alone :/

 

[gardiner stand]

I would have agreed with you 2 years ago about Yarran, but he has improved heaps from then, yes he isnt the hardest bloke around but have seen him back into packs this year. Garlett definitely needs to improve here, however for someone that thin do you expect him to be harder? If he gets bigger he loses his speed and agility, my biggest problem with Garlett this year were his lack of pressure acts, yes he chased, but NOT with intent, hence as another posted said he should have been given a rocket and dropped.

being skinny doesn't stop simmo

 

[albyg]

being skinny doesn't stop simmo

Totally agree with that, but we're not all the same, I want him to go in hard, maybe I am getting soft asd well, lol. Everone has to bring something to the table plus go when its their turn to go, Garlett hasn't done either as much this year. I would keep him.

I also believe we should keep Gibbs and Yarran would be nuts to trade any of them two. Whenever he went into the middle he did well Gibbs, Ratts said he would be played there yet injuries changed that, however this to me wasno excuse we should have had a contingency plan for that. Gibbs has got great skills and makes equally good decisions he should be in the middle. Yarran gives us great run and opens up the game for us, notonly in the immediate play but also gives everyone around him a lift.

 

[thylacine60]

Dangerfield for Gibbs
and
Yarran for Shuey
they can sprinkle some first round draft picks along the way as well

After all players ALWAYS want to return to their home state, im pretty sure they spend their entire lives trying to get back there, they;d push these trades through on those grounds alone :/

God, yes.