Swans best 22 in 2018?

[Tedeski]

Good afternoon Ted!

The way I see it...
(1) Like you said, if we are flying then someone will have taken his role, however...
(2) I also think that if we are struggling (like 0-6) then it makes no sense to spend all your best draft tickets on run & carry types and not give them an opportunity (a) Because it clearly is an identified need and (b) So long as they have shown enough to play seniors then it would be no different to 2016 and 2017 when we blooded youngsters.
(3) By almost reluctantly acquiescing to his wish for another contract the club showed their hand
(4) Leg speed, that appears to be the next evolution in the game. Macca doesn't have any.
(5) There will always be a role for players with the kicking ability of Macca but like ROK I think the club has placed him in the one-dimensional basket.

I too agree that if we again find ourselves at 0 & 6 or 3 & 7 then we would have come to move on from such players as it would also mean that they haven't got the job done.
At this point in time though you always give such a player the benefit of any doubt if they are statistically in the leading group for the strengths they provide to our team, much like Goodesy did even though he dropped off his usual best. Once they drop off significantly & consistently from their usually high markers, then it's time. Poor old ROK was a clear example of this as his mind was still AFL competitive but his body was not.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I too agree that if we again find ourselves at 0 & 6 or 3 & 7 then we would have come to move on from such players as it would also mean that they haven't got the job done.
At this point in time though you always give such a player the benefit of any doubt if they are statistically in the leading group for the strengths they provide to our team, much like Goodesy did even though he dropped off his usual best. Once they drop off significantly & consistently from their usually high markers, then it's time. Poor old ROK was a clear example of this as his mind was still AFL competitive but his body was not.

As opposed to the likes of Rohan, Towers, Rose et al whose bodies and skills are AFL competitive but whose minds are not.

 

[Wayne Swan]

I just want Jordan Dawson to have a good preseason and demand a best 22 spot. He's an ideal big inside mid/high fwd and unlike a few (most) of our other mids, he can give the ball a big roost. His NEAFL form in the latter half of the year was outstanding, how he didn't get senior games has me stumped when much lesser types got games.

We've got a few fringe players getting games who have low ceilings, a player like Dawson really could be a game breaker, needs to played.

The list now has a lot of depth, albeit some of that depth are the low ceiling types, the extra depth makes me more comfortable heading into next year as we got caught out early this year.

This years recruits unlikely to see senior game time unless we have a long injury list but the early finish and almost no post season ops sees us better placed than we have been for many years.

 

[caesar88]

Not me... I like Mills just where he is. We have the best back six in the comp imo, and we saw what happened last year when we messed with it. In future years, Mills will be Captain and will have a similar role to Hodge at Hawthorn imo.

If Aliir makes it, then he will have to force his way in (but not for Mills spot), but talent alone is not enough. As said previously, he needs to want it badly enough to make himself undeniable...

I agree with you RE Mills but I don't agree RE Aliir having to force his way back in. We need more key defenders down back who can use their height to at least help out their fellow defenders. This year going in with only 3 (sometimes only 2!) key defenders they were getting isolated left right and centre because teams figured out that our back line works best as a collective unit. Having Aliir down back would alleviate some of the pressure on blokes like Mills and Rampe who IMO were not as good this year as they were in 2016. Aliir could be our fourth key defender down back then have the likes of Lloyd, Mills, Newman and/or McVeigh taking care of the ground balls and using the ball well.

But i also subscribe to the idea that Aliir would make a good ruck option for us since all of our existing rucks do SFA and I think Aliir would genuinely energise our midfield brigade. Two positions I think we really need AA and he wasn't used in either of them. People wonder why it drives me mad

 

[RUNVS]

I agree with you RE Mills but I don't agree RE Aliir having to force his way back in. We need more key defenders down back who can use their height to at least help out their fellow defenders. This year going in with only 3 (sometimes only 2!) key defenders they were getting isolated left right and centre because teams figured out that our back line works best as a collective unit. Having Aliir down back would alleviate some of the pressure on blokes like Mills and Rampe who IMO were not as good this year as they were in 2016. Aliir could be our fourth key defender down back then have the likes of Lloyd, Mills, Newman and/or McVeigh taking care of the ground balls and using the ball well.

But i also subscribe to the idea that Aliir would make a good ruck option for us since all of our existing rucks do SFA and I think Aliir would genuinely energise our midfield brigade. Two positions I think we really need AA and he wasn't used in either of them. People wonder why it drives me mad

Like Terry Wallace said a week or two ago, our coaching staff lack imagination.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

B: Nick Smith, Heath Grundy, Dane Rampe
HB: Jake Lloyd, Lewis Melican, Jarrad McVeigh
C: Dan Hannebery, Josh Kennedy, Callum Mills
HF: Isaac Heeney, Sam Reid, Kieren Jack
F: Will Hayward, Lance Franklin, Tom Papley
R: Kurt Tippett, Luke Parker, George Hewett

I: Zak Jones, Dean Towers, Nic Newman, Aliir Aliir

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

B: Nick Smith, Heath Grundy, Dane Rampe
HB: Jake Lloyd, Lewis Melican, Jarrad McVeigh
C: Dan Hannebery, Josh Kennedy, Callum Mills
HF: Isaac Heeney, Sam Reid, Kieren Jack
F: Will Hayward, Lance Franklin, Tom Papley
R: Kurt Tippett, Luke Parker, George Hewett

I: Zak Jones, Dean Towers, Nic Newman, Aliir Aliir

The team is good but very slow.

 

[DST]

Hard pressed to say Tippett is best 22 come round 1, but if we want to be absolutely challenging come preliminary final week he will need to be our undisputed number 1 ruckman and in career best form.


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[CD__]

People not having Rohan in their 22 have very short memories, he is an absolute certainty to be playing Round 1, injuries aside.

 

[Number37]

People not having Rohan in their 22 have very short memories, he is an absolute certainty to be playing Round 1, injuries aside.

I hope they play him in one spot the whole year (off half back running the ball at every opportunity).

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I hope they play him in one spot the whole year (off half back running the ball at every opportunity).

Agree, but in the magoos.

 

[Tuco]

Looking through all these lists...we should win some games this year.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Looking through all these lists...we should win some games this year.

I agree. There has been much media chatter about how the lists of the Drug-ons, Cats and Port have made them ultra competitive. However I think with a good run with injury and some further development of the kids we will be even more competitive.

The Tiggers and Drug-ons will be found out from harder draws and the latter has a pedestrian midfield. One or both will miss the 8. Port will be an improver though. I also expect the Crows to have another good year. The little Giants will also have a great year.

Looking at list status, I think the Dees and Taints to both have big years with the Brions and Freo to improve. The Dees and Taints are locks for the 8.

I see little improvement on the Bullies list. The Cats will really miss Lonergan and Mackie in defence. The Weazel midfield needs a rebuild and while they have a solid defence and potent forward line they will struggle. The Gold Coast will struggle again but I hope there are enough signs for GC to persuade Lynch to stay.

The Dawks will be competitive and will improve. Clarko is a legend - unfortunately.

The Pies list is ordinary and their coaching and culture worse. They and #lolNorf will continue their descent down the ladder.

I hope there is a fair Grand Final this year, preferably with the Bloods playing an interstate club.

I expect 4-5 interstate teams to compete in the Finals, with 2-3 Melborne based clubs and the Cats.

 

[BloodySwan]

Going from previous years at least 1 recently drafted kid makes it into the best 22 round 1. Who do people think it will be? A couple if injuries leading up to the season I wouldn't be surprised to see Ling there

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

He's certainly a chance.

 

[swansfan51]

Best 28 (because the best 22 is irrelevant, and in any given round we should be planning to have 4-6 players unavailable):

Jarrad McVeigh
Lance Franklin
Heath Grundy
Kieren Jack
Josh Kennedy
Daniel Hannebery
Nick Smith
Kurt Tippett
Luke Parker
Sam Reid
Dane Rampe
Gary Rohan
Jake Lloyd
Harry Cunningham
Callum Sinclair
Isaac Heeney
Zak Jones
Dean Towers
George Hewett
Callum Mills
Tom Papley
Sam Naismith
Nic Newman
Will Hayward
Lewis Melican
Aliir Aliir
Daniel Robinson
Oliver Florent

And since every year 31-35 players will get games, I reckon these guys get a couple of guernseys here and there:

Matthew Ling
Jordan Dawson
Colin O'Riordan
Darcy Cameron

 

[mikey_san]

Well this is an interesting thread. We have a damned fine team shaping up.

My two cents - playing Macca, Smith and Mills in the same team won't cut it come finals time due to total lack of pace. Though individually they are all bloody good. I hope Stoddart surprises in first year and really claims a spot somewhere there during the season - a turn of pace, and a bit of unpredictability would be a real bonus. (Ling appears to be too slight for this season - but I guess we wait and see, I just get the feeling Stoddart will be the quicker to develop physically.)

Similarly having a mid set up of Kennedy, Parker, Hanners, Hewett, Mills, Heeney, Jack and Jones only leaves one guy with break away pace. Hopefully Florent and Ronke will buzz around on the fringes playing well in preseason and NEAFL ready to get a game if KJ's/Hewett/Hanners/Papley form dips or injury strikes. We can simply bash a lot of the comp to get a win in the middle during H&A - but to win come finals time we'll need a change of gear too. Hope we get games into them before finals come.

I'm also all for Tippet as a solo ruck when 100% fit - with help from either Towers or Aliir - the later of which hopefully develops into a ruck/fwd all round the grounder type. When Tippet isn't fit it's btwn Naismath and Sinclair - pick depending on match ups I guess.

 

[CaptainChardonnay]

Hayward & Rohan don't both play in any best 22.

Towers & Tippett are in the same boat.

Mills will get a lot more midfield time with McVeigh setting up the backline.

Smith will have to start well to keep his spot.

Grundy will be feeling Aliir breathing down his back as well.

 

[Donza]

Like Terry Wallace said a week or two ago, our coaching staff lack imagination.

I back Stevie J to have more imagination than anyone.... Dr Suess excepted

 

[bungwahl]

Best 28 (because the best 22 is irrelevant, and in any given round we should be planning to have 4-6 players unavailable):

Jarrad McVeigh
Lance Franklin
Heath Grundy
Kieren Jack
Josh Kennedy
Daniel Hannebery
Nick Smith
Kurt Tippett
Luke Parker
Sam Reid
Dane Rampe
Gary Rohan
Jake Lloyd
Harry Cunningham
Callum Sinclair
Isaac Heeney
Zak Jones
Dean Towers
George Hewett
Callum Mills
Tom Papley
Sam Naismith
Nic Newman
Will Hayward
Lewis Melican
Aliir Aliir
Daniel Robinson
Oliver Florent

And since every year 31-35 players will get games, I reckon these guys get a couple of guernseys here and there:

Matthew Ling
Jordan Dawson
Colin O'Riordan
Darcy Cameron

It's a fair point about injuries but naming 28 players is taking the easy way out. Naming 22 players means you have to make the tough decisions about which forward or defender to drop, which senior player to put out to pasture, how to inject enough speed, etc.

To me it's more about the hypothetical scenario of how the team may look come 2018 finals. There tends to be a turnover of 4-6 players every year in terms of being "best 22". Will McVeigh and Jack remain? Which of the younger guys will force their way in? How many talls do we need?

Yes, it's half guess work, but more interesting than just listing those who will play games at any stage next year.

 

[BloodySwan]

It's a fair point about injuries but naming 28 players is taking the easy way out. Naming 22 players means you have to make the tough decisions about which forward or defender to drop, which senior player to put out to pasture, how to inject enough speed, etc.

To me it's more about the hypothetical scenario of how the team may look come 2018 finals. There tends to be a turnover of 4-6 players every year in terms of being "best 22". Will McVeigh and Jack remain? Which of the younger guys will force their way in? How many talls do we need?

Yes, it's half guess work, but more interesting than just listing those who will play games at any stage next year.

And why top 28? Why stop there? I'm surprised they didn't list the top 44 Swans!

 

[Kirkswan]

I agree with you RE Mills but I don't agree RE Aliir having to force his way back in. We need more key defenders down back who can use their height to at least help out their fellow defenders. This year going in with only 3 (sometimes only 2!) key defenders they were getting isolated left right and centre because teams figured out that our back line works best as a collective unit. Having Aliir down back would alleviate some of the pressure on blokes like Mills and Rampe who IMO were not as good this year as they were in 2016. Aliir could be our fourth key defender down back then have the likes of Lloyd, Mills, Newman and/or McVeigh taking care of the ground balls and using the ball well.

But i also subscribe to the idea that Aliir would make a good ruck option for us since all of our existing rucks do SFA and I think Aliir would genuinely energise our midfield brigade. Two positions I think we really need AA and he wasn't used in either of them. People wonder why it drives me mad

Nope, still not convinced... We lost three games from round 7 on last year, and a major part of that is our defence. Aliir wasn't good enough to crack it then, why we would bring him in now? Has anybody actually seen Aliir play ruck and thought 'Brilliant!!! We've uncovered a new ruckman!' I don't think so, at least not that I've seen reported last year in the reserves thread. He's helped out a few times, and done okay on occasion, but there has been no sustained run of outstanding form in either position.

So what we have is a guy who wasn't good enough (either skills-wise, team-wise or effort-wise), or who didn't fit the make-up of the team, or who didn't play as instructed and failed to break into the team. It doesn't really matter which of these was the reason, he just didn't make it. Guys like Mills and Rampe (and Heeney, Franklin, Lloyd, Reg, Parker, Hannebery, JPK, etc) thrive on pressure, they are compelled to compete. They don't want someone to help out, they want someone they can depend upon to play their role, to be a known factor in every situation... nothing I've seen of Aliir leads me to believe he is that kind of player. As much as I would like to see him succeed and be part of best 22, he's not there yet...

As always, all my comments are IMO....

 

[Kirkswan]

B: Nick Smith, Heath Grundy, Dane Rampe
HB: Jake Lloyd, Lewis Melican, Jarrad McVeigh
C: Dan Hannebery, Josh Kennedy, Callum Mills
HF: Isaac Heeney, Sam Reid, Kieren Jack
F: Will Hayward, Lance Franklin, Tom Papley
R: Kurt Tippett, Luke Parker, George Hewett

I: Zak Jones, Dean Towers, Nic Newman, Aliir Aliir

Nice... Who is Aliir in for?

What's your opinion on McVeigh and Jack playing the season out?

 

[RUNVS]

I back Stevie J to have more imagination than anyone.... Dr Suess excepted

I am really hoping that Johnson and Cox are able to bring in new ideas into the fold, and Longmire is the type of person who will listen to those ideas.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

The team is good but very slow.

Unfortunately at this point some of our speedy outside runners Cunningham, Florent are to inconsistent for me to consider them best 22. Hayward over Rohan is a line ball call but I'm tipping Hayward to improve with another preseason under his belt and kick upwards of 30 goals.

Nice... Who is Aliir in for?

What's your opinion on McVeigh and Jack playing the season out?

At this point I didn't find a spot for Rohan. But he it's a case of him or Hayward, Aliir's not in competition with him.

I'd include him in the team mainly because it allows us to change up our structure a bit. Aliir's a strong reader of the play, good at intercepting as well as providing some rebound for someone his size. I'd bring him back as third tall and this has two effects. Firstly, Rampe will no longer be accountable to defending one of the opposition's best player such as Dangerfield in the semi. Rampe is fully capable of defending a gun tall/medium forward and is an option if someone starts to get on top of us, but he is also our best in setting up attacking play from defense. So our first preference should be to free him up when possible. It also pushes Mills up the ground into the midfield. Not that he hasn't been good in defense but given he was drafted as a mid and played all his juniors as a mid it would be remiss of us if he isn't given an extended run through there to see what he's capable of. I actually think we need to improve our midfield depth and have more players capable of spending significant minutes in the midfield because it was the depth was exposed at the beginning of this year when we had a Jack and Heeney out, and JPK/Hanners/Parker had to shoulder all the load. Batting deeper allows Heeney and Parker to rotate through the forward line a bit more to make use of their strong overhead marking.

As for us Macca and Jack, confident Jack would play out the season if he remains fit. Consistently been one of our best in delivering the ball inside 50 and setting up scores, was covering the ground very well when he came back. Less sure about McVeigh given injury struggles in the first half of last year, but I'd be purely speculating if I were to try and name his replacement in the best 22. He's 33 next year so some management and rest here or there could help him.