2nds Swans Reserves 2019

[Blood red]

I usually tend to agree with you but not on this one, mate. I’ll say two things - firstly, I think the toppies distribution skills are in general no worse than the majority of the listed players in the Reserves and I don’t think the team loses much, if anything, in getting the ball to them. Secondly, if we don’t want the toppies to “feel the pressure” then get them used to ball by, you know, passing to them and getting them involved. Three of the Academy kids had only six touches each today. I highlighted earlier in the comments where one of them, Geddes, was totally burnt by McInerney who looked right at him, ignored him and then proceeded to attempt a ridiculous handball to Rowbottom who promptly got done for holding the ball.

I have to agree with Ralphyboy on this one, this is all about some listed players being desperate to get into the seniors and not caring enough about the team they happen to be playing for today.

Just had a look at the game.
Wow. The academy boys were simply ignored on several ocassions.
Gedes was a massive example, as was the several times players blazed away while Rayner, McGrath and Barling provided easy pass options which were ignored.
But it's a funny situation, by trying so hard, and ignoring the toppies, the listed players are hanging themselves because they turn the ball over too often.

 

[caesar88]

I usually tend to agree with you but not on this one, mate. I’ll say two things - firstly, I think the toppies distribution skills are in general no worse than the majority of the listed players in the Reserves and I don’t think the team loses much, if anything, in getting the ball to them. Secondly, if we don’t want the toppies to “feel the pressure” then get them used to ball by, you know, passing to them and getting them involved. Three of the Academy kids had only six touches each today. I highlighted earlier in the comments where one of them, Geddes, was totally burnt by McInerney who looked right at him, ignored him and then proceeded to attempt a ridiculous handball to Rowbottom who promptly got done for holding the ball.

I have to agree with Ralphyboy on this one, this is all about some listed players being desperate to get into the seniors and not caring enough about the team they happen to be playing for today.

That would imply that it’s a conscious, deliberate mentality adopted by these players, and I just don’t think that’s the case. It’s giving them too much credit. They are young players themselves and I highly doubt that with a split-second decision to make, they have the time to differentiate whether a player to their immediate right is a top-up kid or not. Do you really believe McInerney, in his hurried efforts to run the ball out of half back, had the time to sit there and think, “hmmm should I go a listed player, or a toppie? The toppie is in the better position, but a listed player is a better player. OK, I’ll go with the listed player.”

Of course not! He just saw the red and white jumper in his blazing away from the pack. Does it mean he needs to maybe work on his composure so he can assess all of his options, instead of just the safest option? Yes. That’s all it says IMO. Nothing about any kind of mentality these players are going into the game with.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Yes Caesar88, however 'composure' is a vital attribute for all Listies wanting a game in the seniors.

 

[DavyRed]

That would imply that it’s a conscious, deliberate mentality adopted by these players, and I just don’t think that’s the case. It’s giving them too much credit. They are young players themselves and I highly doubt that with a split-second decision to make, they have the time to differentiate whether a player to their immediate right is a top-up kid or not. Do you really believe McInerney, in his hurried efforts to run the ball out of half back, had the time to sit there and think, “hmmm should I go a listed player, or a toppie? The toppie is in the better position, but a listed player is a better player. OK, I’ll go with the listed player.”

Of course not! He just saw the red and white jumper in his blazing away from the pack. Does it mean he needs to maybe work on his composure so he can assess all of his options, instead of just the safest option? Yes. That’s all it says IMO. Nothing about any kind of mentality these players are going into the game with.

Actually yes, yes I do believe it’s a conscious act and, yes, I do believe that they think “hmmm should I go a listed player, or a toppie? The toppie is in the better position, but a listed player is a better player. OK, I’ll go with the listed player.”. And why do I think that, because I’ve seen it on too many occasions this season and in previous seasons. I’ve seen these players in the middle of handballing to a red & white player running past them, where 99 times out of a 100 they’d pass to that player, look at the player, stop in mid action and then either try to go on a spectacular run, or turn and kick blindly, or try some forced stupid kick to another listed player.

These toppies know where to run to and the listed players do see them and are easily good enough to hit them. They simply choose not to.

 

[caesar88]

Actually yes, yes I do believe it’s a conscious act and, yes, I do believe that they think “hmmm should I go a listed player, or a toppie? The toppie is in the better position, but a listed player is a better player. OK, I’ll go with the listed player.”. And why do I think that, because I’ve seen it on too many occasions this season and in previous seasons. I’ve seen these players in the middle of handballing to a red & white player running past them, where 99 times out of a 100 they’d pass to that player, look at the player, stop in mid action and then either try to go on a spectacular run, or turn and kick blindly, or try some forced stupid kick to another listed player.

These toppies know where to run to and the listed players do see them and are easily good enough to hit them. They simply choose not to.

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just don’t buy it at all. Why would these listed players who only care about their selection chances only pass it off to other listed players who they are essentially competing against?

 

[DavyRed]

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just don’t buy it at all. Why would these listed players who only care about their selection chances only pass it off to other listed players who they are essentially competing against?

No worries, yep, we’ll disagree on this one

 

[Ralphyboy]

On my observation rowy, mcinerny and stoddard burnt toppies and listed players. Rowbottom was the best by far but on two occasions he had a listed player on the outside, an easy handball for a certain goal and he chose to smash a kick which resulted in a point. Having said that laidler said he has stepped up and is playing seniors footy.


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[bedford]

Kingy and Mick what a frenzy !

 

[grimlock]

Darcy Cameron unspecified injury in training was the reason for his withdrawal from this game

NEAFL: Rowbottom, Jack star in win

The Canberra Demons surged late but two of the game’s stand-outs combined at the death to give the Sydney Swans breathing space on Saturday afternoon, joining forces for a critical goal en route to an eight-point win at UNSW Canberra Oval.

m.sydneyswans.com.au

 

[Skystyler]

if I was Jeremy Laidler and saw listed guys looking off top ups on a regular basis I would go medieval on their asses.
The fact that he hasn't just reinforces my opinion of him as a developmental coach.

 

[Tedeski]

Darcy Cameron unspecified injury in training was the reason for his withdrawal from this game

NEAFL: Rowbottom, Jack star in win

The Canberra Demons surged late but two of the game’s stand-outs combined at the death to give the Sydney Swans breathing space on Saturday afternoon, joining forces for a critical goal en route to an eight-point win at UNSW Canberra Oval.

m.sydneyswans.com.au

Perhaps he tripped over Rampe's chain in his rush to sign with one of the 3 clubs "chasing" him Grim.

 

[caesar88]

if I was Jeremy Laidler and saw listed guys looking off top ups on a regular basis I would go medieval on their asses.
The fact that he hasn't just reinforces my opinion of him as a developmental coach.

It is not a conspiracy led by a bunch of 18, 19 and 20 year olds. It’s a part of footy that happens at every level.

 

[Ralphyboy]

It is not a conspiracy led by a bunch of 18, 19 and 20 year olds. It’s a part of footy that happens at every level.

True, however I do think the swans value the neafl less than the three other afl clubs. The swans see it simply as a vehicle to prepare players for senior spots. For example rowy was brilliant on the weekend but in a team environment he did not always take the best option for the team. Yet as stated by the coach his play was of afl standard. On my observation the neafl teams like brisbane and gws are playing to win a neafl flag. For example they seem to play their best draft year top ups when ever they can whereas the swans tend to play their nds and keep their best draft year players away from neafl. Likewise the brisbane and GWS teams get around their toppies more.

I do think there are two different approaches between the swans versus the other afl neafl sides. I don't know which is better, however I tend to think the swans approach might be working better. Looking at the progression of the swans neafl players into the seniors I would have to say the approach works. I went to the hawthorn game on friday and looked at the number of guys performing well at seniors who played most of last year in the neafl. In the backline was melican, orierdan, allir, dawson. Then there was rose running around. Pretty impressive to have most of the backline from last years neafl.

 

[caesar88]

True, however I do think the swans value the neafl less than the three other afl clubs. The swans see it simply as a vehicle to prepare players for senior spots. For example rowy was brilliant on the weekend but in a team environment he did not always take the best option for the team. Yet as stated by the coach his play was of afl standard. On my observation the neafl teams like brisbane and gws are playing to win a neafl flag. For example they seem to play their best draft year top ups when ever they can whereas the swans tend to play their nds and keep their best draft year players away from neafl. Likewise the brisbane and GWS teams get around their toppies more.

I do think there are two different approaches between the swans versus the other afl neafl sides. I don't know which is better, however I tend to think the swans approach might be working better. Looking at the progression of the swans neafl players into the seniors I would have to say the approach works. I went to the hawthorn game on friday and looked at the number of guys performing well at seniors who played most of last year in the neafl. In the backline was melican, orierdan, allir, dawson. Then there was rose running around. Pretty impressive to have most of the backline from last years neafl.

All true points. I’m not disputing that it happens, I just don’t think it’s a deliberate conspiracy by our listed players, and where do we start drawing the line between when a player backs himself vs when a player does the team thing? If we’re using Rowbottom as an example, imagine if everytime he was in a position to burst away from a stoppage, he instead took the safe option so he could bring a team-mate into the play? Somehow I don’t think that’s why we drafted him, nor do I think it would benefit the team much. His style of play did lead directly to multiple scoring opportunities for the team on the weekend, and no he didn’t always pull it off, but what do they say about living by the sword?

 

[Ralphyboy]

All true points. I’m not disputing that it happens, I just don’t think it’s a deliberate conspiracy by our listed players, and where do we start drawing the line between when a player backs himself vs when a player does the team thing? If we’re using Rowbottom as an example, imagine if everytime he was in a position to burst away from a stoppage, he instead took the safe option so he could bring a team-mate into the play? Somehow I don’t think that’s why we drafted him, nor do I think it would benefit the team much. His style of play did lead directly to multiple scoring opportunities for the team on the weekend, and no he didn’t always pull it off, but what do they say about living by the sword?

I agree, I'm just saying that is the way the swans want them to play. Accordingly no point criticizing the players.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I agree, I'm just saying that is the way the swans want them to play. Accordingly no point criticizing the players.

Just as they look for other Listies, when in the seniors they kick to Buddy and not to others when they are in a better position. Good habits need to be ingrained in the 2s.

 

[grimlock]

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Not Wicks' best game. Did not seem to be tagged.

Almost all the Listies had ordinary games. Few would have slept well feeling assured about contract extensions.

I think a number will be at new homes next year. Unhappily this includes Bell who has plenty of talent but just has not had a leap forward in delivering consistent quality footy.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Nothing from Hirst or McClean suggest they will be best 28 on our list. Move them on. Knowles is big, no worse than Cameron. I'd keep him.

Can anyone mount a case for Stoddard? I am struggling. I see no improvement in his game.

 

[TheMase]

Not Wicks' best game. Did not seem to be tagged.

Almost all the Listies had ordinary games. Few would have slept well feeling assured about contract extensions.

I think a number will be at new homes next year. Unhappily this includes Bell who has plenty of talent but just has not had a leap forward in delivering consistent quality footy.

Wicks got far less midfield time with the return of Fox. That was my take on his game.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Wicks got far less midfield time with the return of Fox. That was my take on his game.

Fair enough. Thanks.

 

[TheMase]

Nothing from Hirst or McClean suggest they will be best 28 on our list. Move them on. Knowles is big, no worse than Cameron. I'd keep him.

Can anyone mount a case for Stoddard? I am struggling. I see no improvement in his game.

Stoddart still has a year to run on his contract. I’ve been more impressed with him this year than last though he still has more work to do. He is still 19, only a year older than Rowbottom. Next year will be make or break for him.

 

[DavyRed]

Nothing from Hirst or McClean suggest they will be best 28 on our list. Move them on. Knowles is big, no worse than Cameron. I'd keep him.

Can anyone mount a case for Stoddard? I am struggling. I see no improvement in his game.

I’d keep the faith with Stoddard. I think he’s worked hard in what has at times been a very inexperienced back six and shown enough skills and dash to keep around for a while longer.

I’m not saying he’ll definitely make it but he’s showing enough promise for now.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Thanks folks. Thoughtful comments.

 

[Blood red]

Stoddart still has a year to run on his contract. I’ve been more impressed with him this year than last though he still has more work to do. He is still 19, only a year older than Rowbottom. Next year will be make or break for him.

I think Hirst has skills, but really can't get near the ball with the bigger bodies just keeping him at bay. Seems he gets a few free kicks for it, but I can't say he should be here next year.
McClean seems to be still finding his feet, but seems to have potential.
Stoddard is a funny one.
He is obviously talented and very fast, but seems to be making more clangers then last year.
Still hasn't added enough size to warrant a call into the 1's. Struggle to make a case for him to stay next year too. Good academy replacement would be Parkes. Bigger, tougher and very talented!
A few weeks ago, I would have said Armety would be better elsewhere, however, his game on the weekend was outstanding.
He makes a good big backman. Prefer him out of the fwd line, and can pinch hit in the ruck, but not too successfully.
Knoll, I agree too. Slow start, but really got going 2nd half vs Demons. Once he finds his feet and gets to understand his mids more, he will be ok. AFL level? Maybe.
Bell is that confusing talent. Can play, everyone knows it, but would I keep him around at the cost of another good Rookie? No. Unfortunately, his lack of improvement and ability to step up in difficult games will ensure he remains a NEAFL level player only. He would best look at WAFL, SANFL or VFL to take the next step if he is to crack the big show.
I just hope Foote and McInerney step up too. They are gathering pretty good numbers, but their fitness, efficiency and decision making seem poor at times.
I have to say, that I didn't think that Rose would be around next year. BUT, he has played well in his call up to the 1's. I believe he deserves an extension now too.