VFL 2023 Swans Reserves

[hairy biker]

Figure with the appointment of Damian Truslove as our new reserves coach might as well start the 2023 thread.

Joins us from GWS where he was their reserves coach in 2022.
Reserves should primarily be about development, but for the record GWS finished 13th of 21 last season. 8 wins and a draw from 18 matches.

His background prior to joining GWS;

Truslove to take VFL reins at the Giants

Greater Western Sydney names Luke Kelly's replacement as coach of the state league side

www.afl.com.au

As I say I hope the focus will be on development rather than results in 2023, something I feel Laidler strayed from with us in 2022.

 

[Ticky009]

SEASON DATES AND FINALS QUALIFICATION:

• Round 1 will begin on March 25th to align with AFL round 2
• 18 matches, and 4 byes will follow for a total of 22 home and away rounds.
• Wild card round will begin on August 26th, which will basically expand finals qualification from 8 teams to 10 teams.
• Finals to begin September 2nd
• Grand Final to be played on September 24

The 2023 VFL Finals will be as follows:

Wild Card Round:
(August 26 - 27)
7th vs 10th
8th vs 9th

Qualifying and Elimination Finals:
(September 2 - 3)
First Qualifying Final: 1st vs 4th
Second Qualifying Final: 2nd vs 3rd
First Elimination Final: 5th vs lower ranked wild card winner
Second Elimination Final: 6th vs highest ranked wild card winner

Semi-Finals:
(September 9 - 10)
First Semi Final: Loser of first qualifying final vs winner of first elimination final
Second Semi Final: Loser of second qualifying final vs winner of second elimination final

Preliminary Finals:
(September 16 - 17)
First Preliminary Final: Winner of first qualifying final vs winner of second semi final
Second Preliminary Final: Winner of second qualifying final vs winner of first semi final

Grand Final
(Sunday, September 24)
winner of the first preliminary final vs winner of the second preliminary final

 

[Kiama Chris]

Likely team:
Rankin Gould Cunningham
Melican Francis DRAFTEE
Warner Roberts Campbell
HHK Amartey DRAFTEE
Wicks McLean VFL
Ladhams Sheldrick Sheather
McAndrew DRAFTEE ROOKIE VFL VFL
Obviously positions are a moveable feast!

 

[caesar88]

As I say I hope the focus will be on development rather than results in 2023, something I feel Laidler strayed from with us in 2022.

I'd have thought development and results go hand in hand, wouldn't do much for the kids if they're getting a touch up every week. I also think we're one of the best clubs in the comp at developing youngsters for AFL level, so what makes you say this HB? (Not having a go, genuinely think your input on the reserves is as valuable as anyone's)

 

[hairy biker]

I'd have thought development and results go hand in hand, wouldn't do much for the kids if they're getting a touch up every week. I also think we're one of the best clubs in the comp at developing youngsters for AFL level, so what makes you say this HB? (Not having a go, genuinely think your input on the reserves is as valuable as anyone's)

I'll just highlight a couple of players and how Laidler used them in 2022.

Firstly I've mentioned James Bell's use in the reserves a few times.
He played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought. He was never likely to make it as a midfielder in the firsts, but perhaps playing down back may have extended his time at the Swans.

Perhaps the more obvious development issue was with McAndrew.
A rugby union convert who needs time on ball to develop his craft yet (particularly after coming back from his injury) he played limited minutes in the ruck.
Sinclair was always leaving at the end of the season, yet he was clearly played as first ruck and took minutes off McAndrew.

I've previously highlighted how Rhyce Shaw was willing to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I'm not suggesting throwing players around willy-nilly and copping a regular hiding, but to ensure opportunities are presented.

For example next year I wouldn't mind seeing Corey Warner tried as a small pressure forward.
He has the speed and the hardness and at this stage I'm unsure he'll get enough of the ball to impact as a winger.

For me Laidler was much more a result focused coach than Shaw.
I guess looking on from the outside, it's a perception of a coach's mindset.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I'll just highlight a couple of players and how Laidler used them in 2022.

Firstly I've mentioned James Bell's use in the reserves a few times.
He played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought. He was never likely to make it as a midfielder in the firsts, but perhaps playing down back may have extended his time at the Swans.

Perhaps the more obvious development issue was with McAndrew.
A rugby union convert who needs time on ball to develop his craft yet (particularly after coming back from his injury) he played limited minutes in the ruck.
Sinclair was always leaving at the end of the season, yet he was clearly played as first ruck and took minutes off McAndrew.

I've previously highlighted how Rhyce Shaw was willing to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I'm not suggesting throwing players around willy-nilly and copping a regular hiding, but to ensure opportunities are presented.

For example next year I wouldn't mind seeing Corey Warner tried as a small pressure forward.
He has the speed and the hardness and at this stage I'm unsure he'll get enough of the ball to impact as a winger.

For me Laidler was much more a result focused coach than Shaw.
I guess looking on from the outside, it's a perception of a coach's mindset.

That's a fair interpretation, particularly regarding Sinclair minutes vs McAndrew, though he did run Sheather down back.
I wonder if the coaching group form specific development plans for individual players or if they leave it to the VFL coach and do it ad hoc.
From Horse's comments about Gould you get the feeling there are specific plans/objectives for some players at least.
Maybe for coaches too.

 

[caesar88]

I'll just highlight a couple of players and how Laidler used them in 2022.

Firstly I've mentioned James Bell's use in the reserves a few times.
He played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought. He was never likely to make it as a midfielder in the firsts, but perhaps playing down back may have extended his time at the Swans.

Perhaps the more obvious development issue was with McAndrew.
A rugby union convert who needs time on ball to develop his craft yet (particularly after coming back from his injury) he played limited minutes in the ruck.
Sinclair was always leaving at the end of the season, yet he was clearly played as first ruck and took minutes off McAndrew.

I've previously highlighted how Rhyce Shaw was willing to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I'm not suggesting throwing players around willy-nilly and copping a regular hiding, but to ensure opportunities are presented.

For example next year I wouldn't mind seeing Corey Warner tried as a small pressure forward.
He has the speed and the hardness and at this stage I'm unsure he'll get enough of the ball to impact as a winger.

For me Laidler was much more a result focused coach than Shaw.
I guess looking on from the outside, it's a perception of a coach's mindset.

Very fair points, particularly astute observation about Bell. Hadn't considered how a change in his role might've opened up more opportunities both for him and others.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

The ruck duties will be very interesting if Ruck Jesus and/or Ladhams get injured (or in Ladhams case suspended).

McAndrew won’t have the luxury of being a project player for too long.

 

[Kiama Chris]

The ruck duties will be very interesting if Ruck Jesus and/or Ladhams get injured (or in Ladhams case suspended).

McAndrew won’t have the luxury of being a project player for too long.

IF Stretch is fair dinkum he'll relish the challenge. Amartey (probably) will take some load too.

 

[kelpie_X]

That's a fair interpretation, particularly regarding Sinclair minutes vs McAndrew, though he did run Sheather down back.
I wonder if the coaching group form specific development plans for individual players or if they leave it to the VFL coach and do it ad hoc.
From Horse's comments about Gould you get the feeling there are specific plans/objectives for some players at least.
Maybe for coaches too.

I don't know about Sydney, but know for a fact West Coast used to have set plans in reserves for their players.

 

[Bloods86]

I'll just highlight a couple of players and how Laidler used them in 2022.

Firstly I've mentioned James Bell's use in the reserves a few times.
He played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought. He was never likely to make it as a midfielder in the firsts, but perhaps playing down back may have extended his time at the Swans.

Perhaps the more obvious development issue was with McAndrew.
A rugby union convert who needs time on ball to develop his craft yet (particularly after coming back from his injury) he played limited minutes in the ruck.
Sinclair was always leaving at the end of the season, yet he was clearly played as first ruck and took minutes off McAndrew.

I've previously highlighted how Rhyce Shaw was willing to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I'm not suggesting throwing players around willy-nilly and copping a regular hiding, but to ensure opportunities are presented.

For example next year I wouldn't mind seeing Corey Warner tried as a small pressure forward.
He has the speed and the hardness and at this stage I'm unsure he'll get enough of the ball to impact as a winger.

For me Laidler was much more a result focused coach than Shaw.
I guess looking on from the outside, it's a perception of a coach's mindset.

I'd assume limited ruck minutes for McAndrew is because he is a rake and they don't want to ruin him.

Also, Laidler has been coach in a much stronger league than Shaw was. Shaw probably had the luxury of being able to experiment. Laidler probably didn't want to get pumped every game.

That and Shaw is just a great coach. There's a reason why he got given a senior gig, I'd love to him back sometime as a senior assistant.

 

[Wolftone]

Figure with the appointment of Damian Truslove as our new reserves coach might as well start the 2023 thread.

Joins us from GWS where he was their reserves coach in 2022.
Reserves should primarily be about development, but for the record GWS finished 13th of 21 last season. 8 wins and a draw from 18 matches.

His background prior to joining GWS;

Truslove to take VFL reins at the Giants

Greater Western Sydney names Luke Kelly's replacement as coach of the state league side

www.afl.com.au

As I say I hope the focus will be on development rather than results in 2023, something I feel Laidler strayed from with us in 2022.

Isn't Aamon Buchanon our Development Coach? He will oversee Truslove. I think the club realised Laidler put more into picking a form team than developing AFL listed players. The other thing is the VFL team was at times playing a different type of game to the seniors. This must confuse the players when they get to senior level as the places they run to in the reserves are not the same places they are expected to be in the Seniors.

I think some games we started playing stodgy defensive footy and got opened up. Only when we started playing the same daring Seniors style footy did we prosper. I thought some of Jeremy's positioning of players at times confusing. At one centre bounce I remember there was not one AFL listed player. There were several listed players available, having returned from injury, but they were not played. VFL listed players replaced them. At one stage, Melican injured or playing one of his few Seniors games, Gould was the only AFL listed player in the backs. Yet Rankin played on a wing I think.

I have no idea about Truslove. But I hope he adheres to the game plan and develops the players to step into AFL footy. I don't think Laidler did that. I think players were confused by the transition from Reserves to Seniors. That can happen if coaches have vastly different philosophies on footy. Jeremy seemed to be a naturally highly defensive coach who was in a system that was highly attacking with a defensive base.

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[Wolftone]

I'll just highlight a couple of players and how Laidler used them in 2022.

Firstly I've mentioned James Bell's use in the reserves a few times.
He played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought. He was never likely to make it as a midfielder in the firsts, but perhaps playing down back may have extended his time at the Swans.

Perhaps the more obvious development issue was with McAndrew.
A rugby union convert who needs time on ball to develop his craft yet (particularly after coming back from his injury) he played limited minutes in the ruck.
Sinclair was always leaving at the end of the season, yet he was clearly played as first ruck and took minutes off McAndrew.

I've previously highlighted how Rhyce Shaw was willing to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I'm not suggesting throwing players around willy-nilly and copping a regular hiding, but to ensure opportunities are presented.

For example next year I wouldn't mind seeing Corey Warner tried as a small pressure forward.
He has the speed and the hardness and at this stage I'm unsure he'll get enough of the ball to impact as a winger.

For me Laidler was much more a result focused coach than Shaw.
I guess looking on from the outside, it's a perception of a coach's mindset.

I agree rẻ McAndrew. Bell was used by previous coaches as a back at the start of his career. I remember him playing back flank in a season and seeing a game where Dawson starred as a mid against GWS. Bell was fantastic. Dawson turned the game single-handed. He was being played as a third tall forward and we were losing at half time. He was put into the centre and dominated. He kicked 3 and got so many clearances I list count. He made space and exposed the lack of defensive run in their midfield. He ended up with 38 disposals, 4 goals, umpteen clearances, kicking at 98%.

I agree about Laidler being result focused. He also started some matches in a very defensive mode that did not work. After half time the team came out and played the seniors style and blitzed the opposition. I think he was told to adhere to the system at half time.

I don't believe there has to be a gap between development and success. I think as players develop, trusting McAndrew will only increase his confidence, they will become better every game and will therefore lead to more team success.

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[Wolftone]

I'd assume limited ruck minutes for McAndrew is because he is a rake and they don't want to ruin him.

Also, Laidler has been coach in a much stronger league than Shaw was. Shaw probably had the luxury of being able to experiment. Laidler probably didn't want to get pumped every game.

That and Shaw is just a great coach. There's a reason why he got given a senior gig, I'd love to him back sometime as a senior assistant.

McAndrew was given very limited opportunities. Hardly played any minutes at all. When he was played he actually did stuff. He proved to be quite clever when he got near the pill. His rucking is good although he needs to stack on the kilos.

I don't think the NEAFL was that much worse than the VFL to be frank. I mean, all the NEAFL clubs are at the top of the VFL, including the Sharks. The stand alone VFL clubs, other THAN NEAFL Sharks, are all bottom.

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[Bloods86]

Isn't Aamon Buchanon our Development Coach? He will oversee Truslove. I think the club realised Laidler put more into picking a form team than developing AFL listed players. The other thing is the VFL team was at times playing a different type of game to the seniors. This must confuse the players when they get to senior level as the places they run to in the reserves are not the same places they are expected to be in the Seniors.

I think some games we started playing stodgy defensive footy and got opened up. Only when we started playing the same daring Seniors style footy did we prosper. I thought some of Jeremy's positioning of players at times confusing. At one centre bounce I remember there was not one AFL listed player. There were several listed players available, having returned from injury, but they were not played. VFL listed players replaced them. At one stage, Melican injured or playing one of his few Seniors games, Gould was the only AFL listed player in the backs. Yet Rankin played on a wing I think.

I have no idea about Truslove. But I hope he adheres to the game plan and develops the players to step into AFL footy. I don't think Laidler did that. I think players were confused by the transition from Reserves to Seniors. That can happen if coaches have vastly different philosophies on footy. Jeremy seemed to be a naturally highly defensive coach who was in a system that was highly attacking with a defensive base.

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Buchanan is at GWS.

I think there's just a fading of memories. We played people in different positions or different % of minutes in favoured positions in the NEAFL under others, including Shaw, than we did when we put them into the senior team. Dawson played midfield minutes in the NEAFL and then was never sighted there at senior level for example. You're just not going to be given the same minutes or responsibilities in the senior team, as to what you might get in reserves, because at one level (reserves) you're maybe just as good or experienced as the opposition, and the other (AFL) if you're put in your favoured position with huge responsibility, you'll get shown up.

Whichever reserves level, there's always going to be differences due to injuries. Sometimes you might get a centre bounce without an AFL listed player by accident, but Laidler did not do this with any level of frequency. If Melican is injured, along with Cunningham and COR, and Gould is the only listed defender in the team, then what is Laidler meant to do? Rankin is a first year player, but he mostly played in defense, some wing. I'm not sure which game you're referring to, but I suspect we may have also needed BOC up forward, otherwise he would probably also have been in the team / in defense. Sheather was also injured, and he has spent some time back. If anything this goes to problems with our depth in some areas, not that Laidler had better alternatives he could have tried.

I think Laidler did a fair job. Not as good as Shaw, but not every reserves coach is going to be a gun, otherwise they wouldn't be a reserves coach (or for very long).

 

[dosser]

There is no way that Laidler went rogue and abandoned the coaching team's directions by playing players where he wanted to at the expense of their development. Every (listed) player in the magoos would have a plan for things to work on, etc and the reserves is where it happens. If McAndrew only had limited minutes in the ruck then you can rest assured that it would be because the sports scientists, in conjunction with Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

42

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

, would be all over it and it would have been their idea. Likewise, if we think a player is being played out of position, it is because they would be under coaches' directions to play there to work on areas that need it, not because the reserves coach doesn't know how to win games.

It should be self-evident that the aim of AFL-aligned VFL teams is to develop players for the seniors, not necessarily to win the VFL, and it is here that a VFL coach has to navigate the tension of team-first development vs their own career development as a successful coach.

 

[Bandit55]

Will Collis has nominated Clunes in the Central Highlands League as his home club in 2023. They’re expecting him to play five games. Wonder who is paying to fly him in?


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[Callipygian]

Will Collis has nominated Clunes in the Central Highlands League as his home club in 2023. They’re expecting him to play five games. Wonder who is paying to fly him in?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

How do we know he'll still be playing VFL footy for us?

Maybe he'll drive back and forth.

 

[BloodySwan]

There is no way that Laidler went rogue and abandoned the coaching team's directions by playing players where he wanted to at the expense of their development. Every (listed) player in the magoos would have a plan for things to work on, etc and the reserves is where it happens. If McAndrew only had limited minutes in the ruck then you can rest assured that it would be because the sports scientists, in conjunction with Dean Cox, would be all over it and it would have been their idea. Likewise, if we think a player is being played out of position, it is because they would be under coaches' directions to play there to work on areas that need it, not because the reserves coach doesn't know how to win games.

It should be self-evident that the aim of AFL-aligned VFL teams is to develop players for the seniors, not necessarily to win the VFL, and it is here that a VFL coach has to navigate the tension of team-first development vs their own career development as a successful coach.

Laidler plays them where they are most likely to succeed. This could be out of position to gain exposure or in their position to develop. Laidler wouldn't go rogue but he will 100% play them out of position if he feels that is best for the player.

 

[Kiama Chris]

How do we know he'll still be playing VFL footy for us?

Maybe he'll drive back and forth.

Might play Melbourne games only.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Might play Melbourne games only.

Isn't Clunes up Lismore way?

 

[Kiama Chris]

Isn't Clunes up Lismore way?

Daylesford Vic

 

[Jewelsbon]

Daylesford Vic

Oh another one, that makes more sense.

 

[kelpie_X]

Isn't Clunes up Lismore way?

Ballarat

 

[Bandit55]

How do we know he'll still be playing VFL footy for us?

Maybe he'll drive back and forth.

It’s not uncommon for Victorian country clubs to fly players in from interstate each weekend, especially Darwin.


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