Sydney Swans pushing AFL for a 3 Grand Final series : Caroline Wilson 5aa

[PowerForGood]

There actually isn't any meaningful data that suggests a home ground advantage for finals.

Just looking at the single binary measure of W/L, or by looking at performance of teams in the day?

 

[PowerForGood]

Unless, of course, if you refer to the relevant data.
But I wouldn't do that if I were you. You'll find it destroys your argument.

But it doesn't just because you say so.
And that's all I'm seeing, no logical factual relevant statistical basis at all.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Just looking at the single binary measure of W/L, or by looking at performance of teams in the day?

It's so subjective to look at performances I really dont think you can do that.

 

[HTT]

The grand final should be returned to Princes Park in the interests of fairness.

Just sayin' is all.

I like this. No chance of a night GF there.

 

[HTT]

Except for the statisticians who look at the results and the margins and the scoring accuracy and insist that MCG tenants have a 2-3 goal advantage.

Eg Check out TheArcFooty and their ELO ratings system which has a basis on statistical analysis across all major sports across the world.

But they are clearly wrong because you said so with a sample size of 19 and a fixation on just the W/L result as an indicator.

In short, every home team in every professional sport played on every continent performs better than every away team in every professional sport played on every continent on average over the long run. Indisputable one would suggest.

.

9-8

Do you know what those numbers mean?

 

[PowerForGood]

9-8

Do you know what those numbers mean?

You realise that HGA is measured in points don't you? Maybe work out what 48-31 means.

That's if such a small sample size even matters.

 

[Colonial]

Comprehension really isn't your strong suit.
Your persistent efforts to create fallacious straw man arguments only proves that you know you're wrong.

If you're going to follow the kranky al playbook, you should now hurl some personal insults and disappear. Only to reappear to regurgitate the same failed arguments.

He like you thinks the world will treat you like your parents do: Nag and complain for long enough, throw a tantrum if needs be, and you'll inevitably get your own way. Sadly for you, your parents were wrong when they bought you up to believe that the world revolves around you.

So I actually read your post, no idea why.

There really is nothing of value to it.

The only thing it shows is you probably have a drinking problem.

Your stance of using win loss as a way of showing the home advantage doesnt happen for Grand finals shows this.

That last paragraph is amusing considering your stance on an MCG GF.
I'm not the one wanting it in 1 city only.

Really are entitled down there arent you.

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[LoungeLizard]

Except for the statisticians who look at the results and the margins and the scoring accuracy and insist that MCG tenants have a 2-3 goal advantage.

Eg Check out TheArcFooty and their ELO ratings system which has a basis on statistical analysis across all major sports across the world.

But they are clearly wrong because you said so with a sample size of 19 and a fixation on just the W/L result as an indicator.

In short, every home team in every professional sport played on every continent performs better than every away team in every professional sport played on every continent on average over the long run. Indisputable one would suggest.

.

Ok, here we have another who is using H&A stats.

Does it say why teams have an advantage at home?

I agree H&A games, the home side has a distinct advantage, i also agree there is an advantage at the G in grand finals, but.
The data we have is not showing us how big that advantage is at the moment, it's actually favoring non-Vics so far.

 

[HTT]

You realise that HGA is measured in points don't you? Maybe work out what 48-31 means.

That's if such a small sample size even matters.

I’m guessing 48-31 is the record of home teams in finals. Which you’d expect anywhere since, theoretically, the home team is the best team there.

 

[Gethelred]

So nothing in reply to what I stated.

You guys really ignore that eh?

The home ground advantage is negated by the away ground disadvantage.

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Not really.

Good sides win away. For interstaters, they can get a huge boost based purely off who they oppose interstate; if you get the doubleup against Carlton, GC, Brisbane, Freo - basically, anyone in the bottom half of the ladder - whilst they play the contenders at home, if they're any good they're a surefire chance at being top 4, off the back of the fixture allotted. And this isn't even an inconsistent thing; sides frequently fall/rise, causing a draw that (based upon the previous year) should be a difficult one to be much, much easier.

Put into its simplest form, you are not incorrect to say that the home ground advantage enjoyed by non-victorian sides can be negated by the away ground disadvantage, but it doesn't always follow that it occurs all the time. Non-victorian sides are more at the mercy of the AFL when it comes to their fixture, as who they play interstate and when they get them - a contender off a six day break at home versus a middle of the ladder side interstate, when you're just off a short break - can determine how their season unfolds almost as much as the strength of their list.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Colonial]

Not really.

Good sides win away. For interstaters, they can get a huge boost based purely off who they oppose interstate; if you get the doubleup against Carlton, GC, Brisbane, Freo - basically, anyone in the bottom half of the ladder - whilst they play the contenders at home, if they're any good they're a surefire chance at being top 4, off the back of the fixture allotted. And this isn't even an inconsistent thing; sides frequently fall/rise, causing a draw that (based upon the previous year) should be a difficult one to be much, much easier.

Put into its simplest form, you are not incorrect to say that the home ground advantage enjoyed by non-victorian sides can be negated by the away ground disadvantage, but it doesn't always follow that it occurs all the time. Non-victorian sides are more at the mercy of the AFL when it comes to their fixture, as who they play interstate and when they get them - a contender off a six day break at home versus a middle of the ladder side interstate, when you're just off a short break - can determine how their season unfolds almost as much as the strength of their list.

Swings and roundabouts.

100% it all evens out in the H&A season in the end.

But not the Grand Final.

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[Gethelred]

100% it all evens out in the H&A season in the end.

But not the Grand Final.

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I think you're incorrect, from a statistical perspective in individual seasons. There's the famous one that happened in Brenton Sanderson's first year, for example.

That being said, though, it probably evens out over time though; good draw followed by difficult one. It's also something that the AFL wouldn't enjoy being brought to light, as it would illuminate their blatant ladder tampering via the fixture (more than the stuff we already complain about already does). From my perspective, if you remove the MCG tenant bias from the GF, does that create another two-tiered competition that favours non-victorian sides? That's the argument, and unless I can adequately see someone prove the negative, I'm against moving the GF away from the G.

Swings and roundabouts. Easier for interstates to make top 4 and get into the GF; easier for Vic sides when they get there.

 

[Jibroni]

Please god no best of three.

 

[Grin]

But not the Grand Final.

Unless you take into account the available evidence.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I think you're incorrect, from a statistical perspective in individual seasons. There's the famous one that happened in Brenton Sanderson's first year, for example.

That being said, though, it probably evens out over time though; good draw followed by difficult one. It's also something that the AFL wouldn't enjoy being brought to light, as it would illuminate their blatant ladder tampering via the fixture (more than the stuff we already complain about already does). From my perspective, if you remove the MCG tenant bias from the GF, does that create another two-tiered competition that favours non-victorian sides? That's the argument, and unless I can adequately see someone prove the negative, I'm against moving the GF away from the G.

Swings and roundabouts. Easier for interstates to make top 4 and get into the GF; easier for Vic sides when they get there.

I dont think the GF at the G is a disadvantage to interstate sides. It inconveniences supporters.
We have three games at the G, one at Optus and two at AO next year. Some would say that's tough as they're all against good sides. I think it's the perfect draw to harden a team up for September.

You're dead right that teams that win flags have a mental strength, and it generally shows in the ability to win hard games away.

 

[Colonial]

Unless you take into account the available evidence.

Keep on drinking.

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[Colonial]

I think you're incorrect, from a statistical perspective in individual seasons. There's the famous one that happened in Brenton Sanderson's first year, for example.

That being said, though, it probably evens out over time though; good draw followed by difficult one. It's also something that the AFL wouldn't enjoy being brought to light, as it would illuminate their blatant ladder tampering via the fixture (more than the stuff we already complain about already does). From my perspective, if you remove the MCG tenant bias from the GF, does that create another two-tiered competition that favours non-victorian sides? That's the argument, and unless I can adequately see someone prove the negative, I'm against moving the GF away from the G.

Swings and roundabouts. Easier for interstates to make top 4 and get into the GF; easier for Vic sides when they get there.

Not at all.

As I said we may have more of a home advantage but theres more of an away disadvantage as well.

Vic sides have a ton of neutral games.

And as for the short breaks it happens all the time for non vic sides and they mostly travel.


I think it evens out through the home and away because of all that.
The only place it doesnt is the GF.

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[Grin]

Keep on drinking.

Just as I predicted

If you're going to follow the kranky al playbook, you should now hurl some personal insults

 

[Colonial]

Just as I predicted

Seriously going the poor me route?

Comprehension really isn't your strong suit.
Your persistent efforts to create fallacious straw man arguments only proves that you know you're wrong.

If you're going to follow the kranky al playbook, you should now hurl some personal insults and disappear. Only to reappear to regurgitate the same failed arguments.

He like you thinks the world will treat you like your parents do: Nag and complain for long enough, throw a tantrum if needs be, and you'll inevitably get your own way. Sadly for you, your parents were wrong when they bought you up to believe that the world revolves around you.

You really are entitled.

Toughen up.

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[Grin]

Seriously going the poor me route?

Your acknowledgement of having lost the argument through your descent to name calling doesn't worry me at all. It was entirely predictable.

You really are entitled.

That you repeat my accusation is indicative that I touched a raw nerve. I'm flattered by your imitation

 

[Colonial]

Your acknowledgement of having lost the argument through your descent to name calling doesn't worry me at all. It was entirely predictable.


That you repeat my accusation is indicative that I touched a raw nerve. I'm flattered by your imitation

You really are struggling.


You also need to look up the term entitled.

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[LoungeLizard]

Not at all.

As I said we may have more of a home advantage but theres more of an away disadvantage as well.

Vic sides have a ton of neutral games.

And as for the short breaks it happens all the time for non vic sides and they mostly travel.


I think it evens out through the home and away because of all that.
The only place it doesnt is the GF.

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You are so wrong.

Go look at this years finals series and tell me that WC didn't get the easier path to the GF.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

You are so wrong.

Go look at this years finals series and tell me that WC didn't get the easier path to the GF.

No you're wrong about that one.

The Eagies had to get past your lot in the QF to get there, and the Demons in the PF. The Pies played 3 finals to reach the GF because they lost the QF. Nobodies fault but theirs The Demons had won two finals before playing them, and had two very good wins. Bad teams dont get to a PF.

You cant have it both ways, the Eagles benefit from home ground advantage but there is none at the G. I dont believe the ground matters in finals at all, except I'm sure the Eagles fans enjoyed the opportunity to see the QF and PF at Optus.

 

[LoungeLizard]

No you're wrong about that one.

The Eagies had to get past your lot in the QF to get there, and the Demons in the PF. The Pies played 3 finals to reach the GF because they lost the QF. Nobodies fault but theirs The Demons had won two finals before playing them, and had two very good wins. Bad teams dont get to a PF.

You cant have it both ways, the Eagles benefit from home ground advantage but there is none at the G. I dont believe the ground matters in finals at all, except I'm sure the Eagles fans enjoyed the opportunity to see the QF and PF at Optus.

I'm not talking about Collingwood, i am referring to Richmond, who finished higher than WC and had the harder path to the GF

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I'm not talking about Collingwood, i am referring to Richmond, who finished higher than WC and had the harder path to the GF

How you could each that conclusion is beyond me. The Pies are the common theme. The Eagkes handled your lot and the Tigers didn't.