Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Redacted]

Eldred Sleeter was previously in another trapeze act with his then wife during the 1930's with Wirth's Circus
28 Mar 1939 - The Flying Devards - Daily News (Sydney, NSW) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article236285833

He returned to the USA and joined the Navy during the war, gained a university degree, and returned to Austrralia in 1947. Appears to of returned on his own this time.
25 Mar 1947 - TRAPEZE ARTIST WHO HAS UNIVERSITY DEGREE - The Daily News (Perth, WA) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article78207356

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In case you're wondering what happened to Eldred's daughter, mentioned in that first article. She passed away this year in Nevada.

Jeanne Sleeter Obituary

Jeanne Sleeter Singleton 1930 – 2019 Veteran circus performer Jeanne Sleeter Singleton died March 8, 2019, in Spanish Springs, Nevada at the age of 88. Born in Peru, Indiana on July 25, 1930, she was the daughter of Eldred Henry Sleeter and Mitzie-Belle Moore, aerialists with the...

circushistory.org

She was married twice, as well.
Circus performer recalls stories with 'greatest of ease' | Entertainment | pantagraph.com https://www.pantagraph.com/entertai...cle_1c09457c-72ca-5cc9-aa68-af97593ee78f.html

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[peteb]

Now you're playing games I'm not going to be part of. If you understand but you're just testing me ...

By the way you have no permission to copy my comments to another blog somewhere to discuss publically and then get annoyed if you ask for permission afterwards.

It's not only annoying it probably against big footy rules.

To be clear, my understanding of DNA matching in order to identify a specific individual rests upon having his DNA registered somewhere else, say a police or hospital record - that sort of thing - my apologies if you took offence at what was only a simple enquiry - and I am assured that lifting a quote from an anonymous contributor (Mycroft) is not a matter for any moderator. Indeed, if Mycroft is reading this, perhaps it may have gone better if she had let herself be known to me in the first place.

 

[Mycroft]

Had lots of friends who were

The Bloomington-Normal Circus Legacy: The Golden Age of Aerialists

Starting in the 1870s, the barns, icehouses, gymnasiums and empty theaters of central Illinois provided the practice sites for aerial performers whose names still command reverence in the annals of American circus history. Meet Fred Miltimore and the Green Brothers, runaways from the Fourth Ward...

books.google.com.au

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An interesting read on the link to YMCA as well, although this applies to America. I believe there was a YMCA in Adelaide back then too and maybe this offered SM somewhere to shower and shave (a member perhaps). Circus also had horses, riding performances etc., but SM was said to have smooth hands, and I'm wondering if trapeze artists, riders and performers hands would be tough, calloused.

 

[BlueE]

No, you quoted from his disposition, whatever that is.

Not sure why your being so cryptic. You asked me if I'd read the disposition of Constable Moss and I said, yes I quoted about the cigarettes from it.

Now you say "No I quoted from his disposition" ...

I'll be clear. I quoted from the signed and sworn statement made by PC John Moss that he make to the Inquest into the Body found on Somerton Beach on 1st December 1948.

You also quoted from PC Moss's signed and sworn statement to the Inquest calling it a disposition. You're being dis-ingenious or in bf terms a campaigner to somehow trying to confuse or twist my meaning and completely miss the point of what I originally posted.

 

[BlueE]

I don't mind having a discussion, as long as it's not copied and pasted elsewhere and stays on this forum to give me a right of reply in the discussion.

My focus from the start is to look at the bigger picture rather than go too far down rabbitholes in tiny points of difference and I've concentrated as much as possible on the original documents and first hand witnesses and interviews where possible.

You've cryptically mentioned matches a few times. I can't read your mind to figure out what you're trying to say so appreciate if you make it clear. You also mention Police Constable Moss the first police officer on the scene did not record matches as being found on the man's body.

I've posted before the sworn statement to the Inquest from Det Sgt Leane and he says matches were found in the unknown man's clothing that he was wearing that morning.

I quoted what P.C. Moss said about also finding the partially smoked cigarette that he thought had fallen out of his mouth and landed on his collar between his should and neck, and this should be looked at with the question of matches.

It' my view that PC Moss had described in detail honestly what he saw and found when he first saw SM. While it's possible he could have made a mistake, he was meticulous in his statement and this is unlikely. This would mean that somebody lit a cigarette for SM and he possibly smoking it was the last action he did before dying.

P.C. Moss's evidence about the cigarette is contradicted by Clelands addition to the witness Mr Lyons statement that says there was an unlit cigarette that hadn't been smoked above the man's ear. This is just one minor way that Coroner Cleland interfered int he Inquiry in my opinion.

 

[BlueE]

To be clear, my understanding of DNA matching in order to identify a specific individual rests upon having his DNA registered somewhere else, say a police or hospital record - that sort of thing - my apologies if you took offence at what was only a simple enquiry - and I am assured that lifting a quote from an anonymous contributor (Mycroft) is not a matter for any moderator. Indeed, if Mycroft is reading this, perhaps it may have gone better if she had let herself be known to me in the first place.

I twice posted the article from June 2018 describing how Dr Renee Blackie was given permission to take hair samples in which she described the analysis of the sample. I'm sure being a forensic DNA specialist operating from an Adelaide University she would have be able to register the findings for genealogical comparison to find the identity of the SM.

However since SA Major Crime now have the sample they will be or have already done that. I look forward to the next installment of the latest podcast for updates .

I can't see how you repeatedly kept mentioning Prof Abbott as it was my understanding from the articles that he used genealogical analysis without getting a DNA sample although he helped establish through basic analysis that formaldehyde had not damaged SMs hair from the bust and it was possible to retrieve a valid DNA sample from it.

As for being allowed to cut and paste responses from his forum onto somewhere else not sure why one of senior moderators liked my saying you can't do it then? I did think I read the poster Mycroft strongly saying they disagreed with you doing that and you replying that because you asked nicely after you did it that they shouldn't be annoyed . I mean that just annoying isn't it?

 

[peteb]

I don't mind having a discussion, as long as it's not copied and pasted elsewhere and stays on this forum to give me a right of reply in the discussion.

My focus from the start is to look at the bigger picture rather than go too far down rabbitholes in tiny points of difference and I've concentrated as much as possible on the original documents and first hand witnesses and interviews where possible.

You've cryptically mentioned matches a few times. I can't read your mind to figure out what you're trying to say so appreciate if you make it clear. You also mention Police Constable Moss the first police officer on the scene did not record matches as being found on the man's body.

I've posted before the sworn statement to the Inquest from Det Sgt Leane and he says matches were found in the unknown man's clothing that he was wearing that morning.

I quoted what P.C. Moss said about also finding the partially smoked cigarette that he thought had fallen out of his mouth and landed on his collar between his should and neck, and this should be looked at with the question of matches.

It' my view that PC Moss had described in detail honestly what he saw and found when he first saw SM. While it's possible he could have made a mistake, he was meticulous in his statement and this is unlikely. This would mean that somebody lit a cigarette for SM and he possibly smoking it was the last action he did before dying.

P.C. Moss's evidence about the cigarette is contradicted by Clelands addition to the witness Mr Lyons statement that says there was an unlit cigarette that hadn't been smoked above the man's ear. This is just one minor way that Coroner Cleland interfered int he Inquiry in my opinion.

Fair enough, the last thing I want to do is stifle discussion.
Another question: do you think the Coroner may have found differently if he took into account the description of the man's trousers in the evening (striped) and the trousers being worn by the man found dead in the morning (plain faun-brown)?

 

[peteb]

I twice posted the article from June 2018 describing how Dr Renee Blackie was given permission to take hair samples in which she described the analysis of the sample. I'm sure being a forensic DNA specialist operating from an Adelaide University she would have be able to register the findings for genealogical comparison to find the identity of the SM.

However since SA Major Crime now have the sample they will be or have already done that. I look forward to the next installment of the latest podcast for updates .

I can't see how you repeatedly kept mentioning Prof Abbott as it was my understanding from the articles that he used genealogical analysis without getting a DNA sample although he helped establish through basic analysis that formaldehyde had not damaged SMs hair from the bust and it was possible to retrieve a valid DNA sample from it.

As for being allowed to cut and paste responses from his forum onto somewhere else not sure why one of senior moderators liked my saying you can't do it then? I did think I read the poster Mycroft strongly saying they disagreed with you doing that and you replying that because you asked nicely after you did it that they shouldn't be annoyed . I mean that just annoying isn't it?

With respect: it was a cut and paste that attributed the author .. this is a common practice on the web and I've never had any problem with it. As a matter of fact it can be quite enlightening to see a personal advance being adopted by others even without an attribution.

Years ago ... say seven, I asked a Professor of Neurology what condition might be responsible for feet as described by Paul Lawson. 'Dystonia of the feet.' he replied, without hesitation.
This was taken up on a few blogs for a while, unfortunately without a result.

The same with Otis Pearce, I was the one who out found out about his disappearance after visiting Dancelines ballet site where they were discussing the same subject.
Same with the striped duds, down to yours truly. Thank you for the deposition (the late) Gordon Strapps, I must have been the only one who realised its importance.
Same with the appearance of matches, Feltus only hinted, I brought it to the fore.
Ditto the delay in Cleland finding the slip, and an explanation of his statement where he said he found the TS slip and put it back, but couldn't remember where he found it the second time he looked.
I'm getting results ...
And I do like to keep score.

 

[Redacted]

An interesting read on the link to YMCA as well, although this applies to America. I believe there was a YMCA in Adelaide back then too and maybe this offered SM somewhere to shower and shave (a member perhaps). Circus also had horses, riding performances etc., but SM was said to have smooth hands, and I'm wondering if trapeze artists, riders and performers hands would be tough, calloused.

I was wondering this in the back of my mind.
But then, if SM had retired from performing, and then had moved onto training or management, or simply clowning years beforehand, would calluses disappear after awhile?
There's an interesting character named Jack (Porky) Kearns in this document. One of his acts was a female impersonator. High heels?
View attachment harry-clays-performers-list-1742017.pdf

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[Gordon1552]

Part of RecordSearch unavailable

Is it Courtney Young, whose name is redacted in this file?

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Yes, Courtney Young was selected to head up MI 5 Australian operations on February 2nd 1948, you'll find the reference in Guy Liddell's diaries Volume 3, link to UK archives: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11090133

 

[Redacted]

Yes, Courtney Young was selected to head up MI 5 Australian operations on February 2nd 1948, you'll find the reference in Guy Liddell's diaries Volume 3, link to UK archives: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11090133

It must of caused some consternation at HQ when Robert Hemblys Scales and Tania Teppema, a known NEFIS agent (even if only a part time amateur spy) announces their engagement on Christmas day 1948. Considering the Dutch animosity with Australia and Britain over the future of Indonesia, it must've been very interesting times in that office. I wonder if Courtney Young had a brief to keep an eye on his partner, and NEFIS Agents?

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View attachment 760148

 

[Redacted]

With respect: it was a cut and paste that attributed the author .. this is a common practice on the web and I've never had any problem with it. As a matter of fact it can be quite enlightening to see a personal advance being adopted by others even without an attribution.

Years ago ... say seven, I asked a Professor of Neurology what condition might be responsible for feet as described by Paul Lawson. 'Dystonia of the feet.' he replied, without hesitation.
This was taken up on a few blogs for a while, unfortunately without a result.

The same with Otis Pearce, I was the one who out found out about his disappearance after visiting Dancelines ballet site where they were discussing the same subject.
Same with the striped duds, down to yours truly. Thank you for the deposition (the late) Gordon Strapps, I must have been the only one who realised its importance.
Same with the appearance of matches, Feltus only hinted, I brought it to the fore.
Ditto the delay in Cleland finding the slip, and an explanation of his statement where he said he found the TS slip and put it back, but couldn't remember where he found it the second time he looked.
I'm getting results ...
And I do like to keep score.

Is this the Otis Pearce that you found had died in California during 1985 according to your comment on 》 http://dancelines.com.au/tracing-path-mystery-man-ballets-russes-australia/

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[BlueE]

With respect: it was a cut and paste that attributed the author .. this is a common practice on the web and I've never had any problem with it. As a matter of fact it can be quite enlightening to see a personal advance being adopted by others even without an attribution.

Years ago ... say seven, I asked a Professor of Neurology what condition might be responsible for feet as described by Paul Lawson. 'Dystonia of the feet.' he replied, without hesitation.
This was taken up on a few blogs for a while, unfortunately without a result.

The same with Otis Pearce, I was the one who out found out about his disappearance after visiting Dancelines ballet site where they were discussing the same subject.
Same with the striped duds, down to yours truly. Thank you for the deposition (the late) Gordon Strapps, I must have been the only one who realised its importance.
Same with the appearance of matches, Feltus only hinted, I brought it to the fore.
Ditto the delay in Cleland finding the slip, and an explanation of his statement where he said he found the TS slip and put it back, but couldn't remember where he found it the second time he looked.
I'm getting results ...
And I do like to keep score.

So it is a game to you, where winning by keeping score of so called results or maybe financial is the reward? Dude ask the mods if you're not sure if you should copy and paste posts from here onto other blogs somewhere?

I have always linked any other research that I've quoted on here and think some excellent research has been done by many others I particularly liked the Danceline notes and research with the many news paper articles they found with Otis mentioned. You did that?

I haven't heard of many of the details yo're mentioning and as I said with your cryptic comments on matches required me to try to read your mind as it makes no sense without the context of the cigarette and looking at the Inquest affidavits. As you haven't replied to my post on it Did you read them or just rely on a hint by Feltus?

Never heard that the wedge shaped toes where the big toe and little toes meet in the middle could have been caused by "Dystonia of the feet" as that is a totally different result from how the SM's feet were described in the Inquest.
Here's some examples of foot dystonia

The striped duds that Sprapps described may have had such a minor strip in that isn't noticeable to the naked eye? Did they match the double breasted coat jacket that was on display? Was he taken away, cleaned up and returned with new brown trousers. Would explain being posoned by digitalis which is the most likely except there was no vomiting. Well done.

The Tamam Shud paper that was found and photographed on the day after he was found? Same day as the writings found on the deceased?

I'm curious why you haven't answered any of my more major problems I've asked you about that existed with the Coroners Inquest?

 

[Redacted]

Interesting list by Museum of Perth, but incomplete. I presume they only tagged articles with pictures? No one looking like SM though.

Trove

Australia’s free online research portal. Trove is a collaboration between the National Library of Australia and hundreds of Partner organisations around Australia.

trove.nla.gov.au

Examples》

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[BlueE]

Is this the Otis Pearce that you found had died in California during 1985?

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I think Grey Crow found the death notice of Otis Norton Pierce as well as a Dartmouth College award that is presented in his name along with Elizabeth Hand.

Despite him being a supposed Boston millionaires son and Barbara Piece's family coming from around the same area as Boston, New York and Dartmouth College, I find it's very hard to find any information on Otis's family or if he's related to Barbara Bush, nee Pierce or her father Marvin.

 

[BlueE]

Lat podcast is out. The assumptions I made about Fiona looking at the DNA analysis of Dr Renee Blackie were wrong.

I jumped to the conclusion because Dr Blackie had come out with her new analysis finding viable DNA in the SM hair samples in June 2018, that the results would be discussed on this podcast. Seems the samples are still with SA Major Crime Squad Forensic labs and we're still none the wiser.

This analysis wan't addressed in the podcast although it did briefly acknowledge the breakthroughs made with the Golden State killer case.

This episode concentrates on Prof Abbott exhuming the grave of SM to extract DNA. He has permission but is still deciding it seems?

05 | The Somerton Man Mystery — could DNA finally solve this puzzling case? - ABC listen

Could breakthroughs in DNA technology and forensic genealogy identify Adelaide's Somerton Man? And is it time to finally dig him up?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Redacted]

My eyesight must be really shite, or people's imagination is really good. But if this is any good to you, or your sleuthing, it's on https://tamamshud.blogspot.com/2019/09/somerton-man-tipping-point.html



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[peteb]

So it is a game to you, where winning by keeping score of so called results or maybe financial is the reward? Dude ask the mods if you're not sure if you should copy and paste posts from here onto other blogs somewhere?

I have always linked any other research that I've quoted on here and think some excellent research has been done by many others I particularly liked the Danceline notes and research with the many news paper articles they found with Otis mentioned. You did that?

I haven't heard of many of the details yo're mentioning and as I said with your cryptic comments on matches required me to try to read your mind as it makes no sense without the context of the cigarette and looking at the Inquest affidavits. As you haven't replied to my post on it Did you read them or just rely on a hint by Feltus?

Never heard that the wedge shaped toes where the big toe and little toes meet in the middle could have been caused by "Dystonia of the feet" as that is a totally different result from how the SM's feet were described in the Inquest.
Here's some examples of foot dystonia View attachment 760274View attachment 760275View attachment 760277
List them, in order, using as little words as possible.

The striped duds that Sprapps described may have had such a minor strip in that isn't noticeable to the naked eye? Did they match the double breasted coat jacket that was on display? Was he taken away, cleaned up and returned with new brown trousers. Would explain being posoned by digitalis which is the most likely except there was no vomiting. Well done.

The Tamam Shud paper that was found and photographed on the day after he was found? Same day as the writings found on the deceased?

I'm curious why you haven't answered any of my more major problems I've asked you about that existed with the Coroners Inquest?

 

[peteb]

List them, in order, using as few words as possible. And yes, it is a Great Game. Google it,

 

[peteb]

Is this the Otis Pearce that you found had died in California during 1985 according to your comment on 》 http://dancelines.com.au/tracing-path-mystery-man-ballets-russes-australia/

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That’s my name as posting it ..

 

[BlueE]

Fair enough, the last thing I want to do is stifle discussion.
Another question: do you think the Coroner may have found differently if he took into account the description of the man's trousers in the evening (striped) and the trousers being worn by the man found dead in the morning (plain faun-brown)?

No. He found he couldn't say where the man died and I don't think that would have changed. That takes different scenarios into account.

All it says to me is that he's possibly had his trousers changed or what Strapps described (brown with a stripe) wasn't that different to the plain brown (could have had a light stripe). If he had his trousers changed what Strapps described could have been the same fabric and his double breasted jacket. Still just says to me someone has taken him away and returned him cleaned up in similar but different strides.

Wouldn't have changed what the coroner said though.

"Same with the appearance of matches, Feltus only hinted, I brought it to the fore."

Now I understand what you were trying to get at with the matches. Feltus is hinting who's lying and who's telling the truth in the sworn statements and why?

What conclusion did you come to?

 

[BlueE]

List them, in order, using as few words as possible. And yes, it is a Great Game. Google it,

The Great Game — also known as Bolshaya Igra — was an intense rivalry between the British and Russian Empires in Central Asia, beginning in the nineteenth century and continuing through 1907 wherein Britain sought to influence or control much of Central Asia to buffer the "crown jewel" of its empire: British India.

Still don't think so.

Photographer's statement is unfinished and possibly not signed by him. Photo said to be of the SM isn't him?

Photographer says on 2nd December 1948 he took pictures of the writing on the deceased and the piece of paper on the deceased. Why did Cleland say he found the paper around April 1949 and writings sometime later?

Why weren't the teeth photographed?

The Tamam Shud font and paper was anlaysed in pages of detail by Det Sgt Brown and he found a matching book published by Collins. Is this correct or was the Rubyiat a Whitcome and Tomes publishing?

Was the harassment that Keith Mangnoson and his wife received to stop him testifying in the Inquest actually because he knew who SM was?

Were he and his son abducted and his son poisoned to stop him from testifying?

Is the identity known to higher powers in Australia and they'll never allow it released? Why?

Did SM have a foreign accent?

Is he related to many Americans located on the North East coast of USA.

 

[Redacted]

This one is a stretch, but it happened in early September 1948...

44 Persons Missing in Circus Ship Sunk in Caribbean With Animals; CIRCUS LOST AT SEA; 44 PERSONS MISSING https://nyti.ms/1GZSVmd

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[Gordon1552]

I'm going to go through anyone associated with Thomson or Harkness looking for photos to see if I can jag a person who might have similar deformities and be related to Somerton Man.
Has anyone come across a photograph of Arthur Jonathan Crocker? He was a business partner of Prosper Thomson's brother according to an entry in the Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales on page 181, Fri 25 Jan 1946 [Issue No.8]

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Couple of things that might be of interest, Jestyn's grandson whose Mother was born after SM's time, has the same ear type as SM so it would appear that it is a family thing. When Clive Turner conducted an interview with Paul Lawson he specifically mentioned that Jestyn had taken Robyn to the UK for expensive and extensive dental treatment, that would influence any thinking regarding the missing teeth issue. I have pics of the grandson's profile if there of any interest.

that's an interesting thought re Arthur, not heard of him before.

 

[Gordon1552]

A family of cobblers.

A Mr T. A. Harkness, of Sinalley and Harkness (shoe makers, Abbotsford Victoria) 1913

10 Sep 1913 - STATE OF THE BOOT INDUSTRY. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197485116


Mr. John Harkness. chairman of directors of Harkness Shoes Pty. Ltd., Abbotsford, died suddenly yesterday afternoon ' at his home, 27 Dorrlngton-avenue, East Malvern. He Is survived by his widow and two sons.
The funeral will take place at Boroondara Cemetery, Kew, tomorrow afternoon. The arrangements will be conducted by le Pine and Son.
11 Aug 1939 - Mr. John Harkness - The Age (Melbourne, Vic.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204924451

Two sons.

One goes on to become the president of the Federal executive council of Australian Footwear Manufacturers

14 Jul 1948 - Shoes, Hats May Cost More Soon - The Age (Melbourne, Vic.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206905078
23 Mar 1954 - Shoes Import Worry - The Mercury (Hobart, Tas.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27210411

What happened to the other son?

Is Jessica related to this family?

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That's an interesting find. The shoes that SM was wearing were quite new according to Det Sgt Leane, 'Oxford Brogue' was the style. Some years back I traced the number found in the shoe to John Lobb and Co in the UK, an upmarket bespoke shoemaker. Mr. Lobb told me that yes, it was one of their numbers but it belonged to a pair of riding boots and he dismissed the photograph I had forwarded to him of SMs shoes as not being from them. The brogue pattern apparently came about as a means to get rid of bits and scraps of leftover leather, smart thinking. Similar shoes were sold by Foys, the manufacturer was J McKeown. It may be that Harkness shoes were also sold via the major retailers or perhaps by one of many catalogue companies that existed in those times?