Tarkyn Lockyer

[knightwheelrqr]

Starting to think that Lockyer would be better suited to a regular role in the back pocket, and a possible player who could fit into the rotations up forward if the opposition was going with a taller forwardline or when Davis + Didak shift into the midfield. Lockyer is one of our better kicks at goal, but down back we have a need for another small as really Heath Shaw is our only other. This would allow Harry O'Brien to play on more medium forwards as opposed to smalls each week. Would also favour Ben Johnson in a back pocket/ half back flank role also on the smaller forwards as opposed to playing in the midfield (assuming he is playing), so in effect he would just be in the backline rotation.

So a possible team structure under this scheme could be: (Assumed full strength)

F: Sean Rusling Jack Anthony Leon Davis
HF: Paul Medhurst Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Dane Swan Scott Pendlebury
HB: Nick Maxwell Nathan Brown Harry O'Brien
B: Tarkyn Lockyer Simon Prestigiacomo Heath Shaw
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Shane O'Bree
BENCH: Josh Fraser Dayne Beams Steele Sidebottom Ben Johnson
EMG: Ben Reid Cameron Wood Brad Dick

Probably a pretty well balanced team all in all. As Fraser plays backup ruck/ forward. Sidebottom and Beams are mids. Johnson is in the backline rotation (His condition for making the 22, otherwise would play Reid instead). Then Thomas has the capacity to go forward. And Davis and Didak have the capacity to play some midfield minutes. With Lockyer as mainly a back, who could still move forward if the rotations required him to do so.

*If Rusling isn't playing then just Medhurst moves closer to goal, Fraser moves onto the half forward flank and Reid is bought into the side* So the structure is still pretty flexible.

 

[mdc]

Starting to think that Lockyer would be better suited to a regular role in the back pocket

7:05 on this video illustrates nicely just how terrible this idea is.

Lockyer's a quality footballer, but he'd struggle in the VFL as a back pocket.

 

[pie time]

i dont see why everyone is being so critical of tarkyn he is still in our best 22.
he might be getting a bit slower but we can just put him in the forwardline on a rotation. and has shown that he can kick goals when needed

 

[knightwheelrqr]

7:05 on this video illustrates nicely just how terrible this idea is.

Lockyer's a quality footballer, but he'd struggle in the VFL as a back pocket.

Byrnes is freakishly fast. But they are the types of players he would be taking from week to week. I would tend to play Shaw on the "faster" small forward and Lockyer on the "other" small forward.

Lockyer while not fast in defence would be a nice option because his disposal is of a high quality. So he could get the ball out of defence and find good options up the ground better than most comming out of defence, which would be a nice element to add to a defence bragging Shaw and Harry O'Brien who can run it out of defence, and Maxwell who is the tough nut.

In those defencive rotations also with Johnson, Johnson could play a faster small forward, and while he would have trouble against players that can mark overhead, that would be when Lockyer is in that backline rotation.

85% back 15% forward is probably the type of thing I would be looking at.

Just think of Lockyer + Johnson as role type players who can play on specific opponents. Against one team Lockyer might not be suited at all to matching up on a forward in which case he can move forward and Johnson can play back. Or likewise Johnson might not be suited in which case he might play in the VFL for the week and another player comes into the side (eg. Reid).

 

[King Woodie]

He is too slow for the back pocket. The faster small forwards would eat him up.

Why wouldn't you have him as a small forward like last year? He is a very strong overheard mark for his side, and kicked over 30 goals last year.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

He is too slow for the back pocket. The faster small forwards would eat him up.

Why wouldn't you have him as a small forward like last year? He is a very strong overheard mark for his side, and kicked over 30 goals last year.

This year without a doubt forward pocket should have been the position he played. But with Jolly (meaning Fraser spends more time forward), Rusling healthy. The addition of Ball and then the development of Sidebottom and Beams, it means that Didak/ Davis/ Thomas will get solid minutes up forward. Now where I see a gap is down back, for a small back to allow Harry O'Brien to play on a more medium size back as opposed to a small.

I would rather see a forwardline rotation of:
F: Sean Rusling Jack Anthony Leon Davis
HF: Paul Medhurst Travis Cloke Alan Didak
Rotation: Dale Thomas, Josh Fraser, Tarkyn Lockyer

Then depending on matchups Lockyer should play most time down back, but if the opposition plays a taller forwardline then without a doubt Lockyer can play forward.

Basically he is a guy who can fill gaps and depending on the lineup we play he will get placed in a different spot, but ultimately with what I see as being our best lineup he could well spend most of his minutes down back with maybe 15%-25% time or there abouts up forward.

Then backline the way I see it would have a much smaller rotation of:
B: Tarykn Lockyer Simon Prestigiacomo Heath Shaw
HB: Harry O'Brien Nathan Brown Nick Maxwell
Rotation: Ben Johnson

In he would need to play bigger minutes down back mostly. But would still get some time up forward.

 

[King Woodie]

Hey knight, how come when you are doing teams you put the full forward line as the top line, instead of the convention of the full back line the last line? I always have to end up reading your teams upside down... :>

 

[pie time]

so your taking toovey out for lockyer? doesnt make much sense

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Hey knight, how come when you are doing teams you put the full forward line as the top line, instead of the convention of the full back line the last line? I always have to end up reading your teams upside down... :>

I have changed my mind. In that now I have included Rusling and taken out Ben Reid.

Rusling is looking great if you have seen him of late. Assuming he makes the side, I think this is probaly the way to matchup.

If it is Reid in the side instead of Rusling, then there is a chance that Lockyer spends more time up forward.

But structurally I would like to see him spend more time down back because down back we don't have enough small backs, but too many mediums. While up forward we have too many smalls and not enough mediums or bigs.

But whether Rusling or Reid play will have a big impact as to the role Lockyer plays. Would probably rather Rusling play because then we have much better team chemistry and accross all lines we matchup allot better.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

so your taking toovey out for lockyer? doesnt make much sense

Basically yes. I never had Toovey in my team whenever I have posted my lineups for 2010.

Not that I don't rate him, but structurally he is not needed. Likewise Wellingham, likewise Leigh Brown.

Because N.Brown, Sidebottom, Jolly, Ball will all become regulars in 2010. So with a few role changeups and so on, this is how we would matchup with our best 22.

 

[Invigoration]

Think you can safely rule me out of buying a membership in 2020

 

[charmer]

Lockyer is a valuable asset up forward whether it's in the pocket or on the half forward line. He pushes up to the wing in space better than most in the league and with his good footskills can spot up a Rusling, Cloke or Anthony. He is one of the better kicks in the side along with the obvious Pendles, Didak, Davis and having him playing in the back pocket would be a step back for mine.

Not only that, the players seem more than confident to kick it to him in a one on one situation and the game Vs the Kangaroos in 2009 shows just how valuable he really is to our side. He is often the player that steps up in the forward line when we have been struggling, pops up and kicks a goal or two. He doesn't waste his opportunities and I do not want to see this lost from our forward line.

Johnson to play on the small forward if not on a wing.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Lockyer is a valuable asset up forward whether it's in the pocket or on the half forward line. He pushes up to the wing in space better than most in the league and with his good footskills can spot up a Rusling, Cloke or Anthony. He is one of the better kicks in the side along with the obvious Pendles, Didak, Davis and having him playing in the back pocket would be a step back for mine.

Not only that, the players seem more than confident to kick it to him in a one on one situation and the game Vs the Kangaroos in 2009 shows just how valuable he really is to our side. He is often the player that steps up in the forward line when we have been struggling, pops up and kicks a goal or two. He doesn't waste his opportunities and I do not want to see this lost from our forward line.

Johnson to play on the small forward if not on a wing.

Johnson i would definately play down back (half back flank/ back pocket), his run and carry is very valueable and as a winger or half forward flanker there are much better options.

For Lockyer he would certainly play time up forward. If Rusling comes back, then we would have other players in our rotation who would demand more time up forward.

It will depend mostly on who makes our best 22. If Toovey stays in the team then consider Lockyer as good as a forward. But depending on the best 22, he could well play most of his minutes down back.

 

[Optimax]

Think you can safely rule me out of buying a membership in 2020

I'm already reserving my seat for the 2019/2020 AGM cause I'll need to vent

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Think you can safely rule me out of buying a membership in 2020

Aww, thankyou

Maybe in 2021 you might reconsider after I blow your mind?

 

[mattys123]

Lockyer only has one role at AFL level now, and that is as a forward pocket/Half Forward Flanker whose job is to take one player out of the game, and hopefully score a little himself.

If you want to see how good Tarks would be in the backline, go watch the last kick in on ANZAC day, where Toovey was on his own 35 metres out, but instead he kicked 45 metres to a contest and tragedy ensued.

Add the Byrnes incident and you have the plain fact that Tarkyn Lockyer should never venture past the centre of the ground again at AFL level.

 

[Invigoration]

Aww, thankyou

Maybe in 2021 you might reconsider after I blow your mind?

Unless you give amazing oral, I don't like your chances

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Unless you give amazing oral, I don't like your chances

Havn't seen me in action yet mate
If so critical of my work have a go at this:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662944
Choose your team and lets see what you can do this season.

Brisy, Freo and Melbourne are the leftovers.

 

[Lockyer24]

His strengths are that he is a neat finisher, hard runner and presents well as a lead up player despite his size. This dictates he is a floating small forward and that's it. Doesn't have the pace or contested ball winning skills for the centre or deep in defence.

 

[lenny&carl]

He had a succesful 2009 in the fwd line, so that's where the 2010 plan would place him. He has some versatility to be a spare parts man as well. If he's still his old self, but gets squeezed out of the team because we have so many young guys stepping up & up, then that'll be a bloody good sign for the Pies.

 

[Quicky]

I really don't like the Lockyer to backline idea for the reasons Mattys and MDC have pointed out. But especially not as a back pocket where he would get seriously exposed in the air. He just doesn't have the composure, speed, aerial ability or accountability to play as an out and out defender anymore. Malthouse has previously commented on how important he sees the HFF and how he believes they run harder than any other position. Given Lockyers strengths are his fitness and footskills this role is the perfect match for him. He also has a good nack of running into space and getting shots on goal which is important. No doubt HFF is his position at AFL level.

Starting to think that Lockyer would be better suited to a regular role in the back pocket, and a possible player who could fit into the rotations up forward if the opposition was going with a taller forwardline or when Davis + Didak shift into the midfield. Lockyer is one of our better kicks at goal, but down back we have a need for another small as really Heath Shaw is our only other. This would allow Harry O'Brien to play on more medium forwards as opposed to smalls each week. Would also favour Ben Johnson in a back pocket/ half back flank role also on the smaller forwards as opposed to playing in the midfield (assuming he is playing), so in effect he would just be in the backline rotation.

So a possible team structure under this scheme could be: (Assumed full strength)

F: Sean Rusling Jack Anthony Leon Davis
HF: Paul Medhurst Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Dane Swan Scott Pendlebury
HB: Nick Maxwell Nathan Brown Harry O'Brien
B: Tarkyn Lockyer Simon Prestigiacomo Heath Shaw
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Shane O'Bree
BENCH: Josh Fraser Dayne Beams Steele Sidebottom Ben Johnson
EMG: Ben Reid Cameron Wood Brad Dick

I think you are really overstating the need for small defenders. Last year with O'Brien and Toovey taking the oppos small defenders we finally found a combination that worked. Previously we got torn apart by small forwards but that got addressed with O'Brien and Toovey in the pockets. Importantly it also allowed Shaw to be used on a HBF in a more attacking position which was really important to the team and the balance of the backline. I think we would really struggle to create drive off the HB line if Shaw was not used as a HBF. I think if we have a need to cover medium sized defenders we should look at using Maxwell or Goldsack and leave O'Brien to the smalls. We also have plenty of other medium defender options without over using O'Brien in this role. Also I really think Davis is too important in the midfield to be used in a pocket up forward. I'd be more inclined to play Medhurst deep and give him room to move in as he is our most dangerous forward - I think we can use different players on the HFF than medders >> Lockyer being one.

Lockyer while not fast in defence would be a nice option because his disposal is of a high quality. So he could get the ball out of defence and find good options up the ground better than most comming out of defence, which would be a nice element to add to a defence bragging Shaw and Harry O'Brien who can run it out of defence, and Maxwell who is the tough nut.

In those defencive rotations also with Johnson, Johnson could play a faster small forward, and while he would have trouble against players that can mark overhead, that would be when Lockyer is in that backline rotation.

85% back 15% forward is probably the type of thing I would be looking at.

Just think of Lockyer + Johnson as role type players who can play on specific opponents. Against one team Lockyer might not be suited at all to matching up on a forward in which case he can move forward and Johnson can play back. Or likewise Johnson might not be suited in which case he might play in the VFL for the week and another player comes into the side (eg. Reid).

I think Lockyer has shown that while his disposal is quality he is not nearly as composed as he used to be (A problem he wont expose as much finding space on a HFF). ANZAC day is a good example. I don't think he'd be that effective moving the ball out of defence. I'd look at players like Macaffer or Blight if we wanted a player for this purpose in the backline although i'm a fan of keeping the backline from last year more or less intact. Also I see the defensive side of both Lockyers and Johnsons games to be a weakness I think they would expose in a back pocket. These days small crumbing players are often still very strong overhead (think of guys like Stokes/Thomas etc who are very good overhead marks).

Basically yes. I never had Toovey in my team whenever I have posted my lineups for 2010.

Not that I don't rate him, but structurally he is not needed. Likewise Wellingham, likewise Leigh Brown.

Because N.Brown, Sidebottom, Jolly, Ball will all become regulars in 2010. So with a few role changeups and so on, this is how we would matchup with our best 22.

The bold comment I really disagree with. I made reference to it above but Toovey is very important to the structure of the backline. His combination with O'Brien has finally resolved our issue with small forwards who used to tear us apart. It also allows Heath Shaw to play a more attacking role off the HBF an area which at times we struggled last year until Shaw found form. Toovey also has the added advantage of being good in the air allowing him to zone off and help out his other defenders. This is very important to our defensive strategy and something Lockyer or Johnson can't do nearly as well. I think if we played Lockyer as a BP instead of Toovey we would begin to have issues with small forwards again like in 2008. It's Tooveys ability to shut down these players and work within the structure of our current backline which will ensure he continues to get games in this position, because we don't have anyone else who can do this defensive job.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

My reasons were not so much that he is not good for this role but instead more so based on the best 22 being as outlined and that for that structure to work he would be forced back. But you understood that perfectly.

Structurally in that case I would start Lockyer on the bench and still use him as a spare parts utility but primarily as a forward.

On Didak/ Davis I would start them in the forwardline but then move them into the midfield rotation. So they are more so rotational players as opposed to full time forwards in the type of system I would look to implement.

Just another sample backline structural idea. Would like to hear your thoughts.

HB: Heath Shaw Nathan Brown Ben Johnson (For his run and carry *remembering how effective he was in this role in the mid 00s*)
B: Nick Maxwell Simon Prestigiacomo Harry O'Brien

I think this could be a viable backline strucure. Structurally you are right about Toovey that he is a nice fit. Just thinking within this lineup how it would work structurally. Maxwell might be a bit slow for a back pocket but he could probably play as an extra back and someone else could go back into a back pocket and fill that role, probably Toovey or just would have to think within this structure who else fits that role. Ben Johnson I really like for his run and carry game and in tandum with Heath Shaw I would really like to see what they could do off the half back line. It would really set up some nice play off half back.

Why I like Medhurst on a forward flank is because he is so dangerous there. The way he sets up plays and gets so many goal assists is deadly. Many players often think he will be loading up for goal and does the team thing and kicks it certrally to the leading forward which is an element of his game I really rate highly.

Come to think of it Lockyer is a bit hesitant and probably doesn't have the composure coming out of defence. So in hindsight probably have to agree that he is better suited to the forward role. Though this was only a structural idea.

You are quite right about Toovey in the structural sense down back. He is very good on the small forwards. Just annoyingly I don't see him fitting in my best 22 to be able to fit him in my structure.

Good situation for the club to be in any case.

I will have a good rethink over the comming days of the ideal structure.

But really like your ideas as always Quickly. Great insight. You will be fantastic in the weekly coaching I'm sure!

EDIT: One other note. Is that Harry O'Brien has always voiced a desire to play on taller forwards (as opposed to smalls every week) which was also partically something I was considering structurally.

 

[Quicky]

Just another sample backline structural idea. Would like to hear your thoughts.

HB: Heath Shaw Nathan Brown Ben Johnson (For his run and carry *remembering how effective he was in this role in the mid 00s*)
B: Nick Maxwell Simon Prestigiacomo Harry O'Brien

I think this could be a viable backline strucure. Structurally you are right about Toovey that he is a nice fit. Just thinking within this lineup how it would work structurally. Maxwell might be a bit slow for a back pocket but he could probably play as an extra back and someone else could go back into a back pocket and fill that role, probably Toovey or just would have to think within this structure who else fits that role. Ben Johnson I really like for his run and carry game and in tandum with Heath Shaw I would really like to see what they could do off the half back line. It would really set up some nice play off half back.

I don't think thats a bad backline structure. I mean besides the fact i'm not really a Johnson fan. I think it would only work with teams that had one small forward however. Probably teams like Brisbane, Adelaide, Freo, WC, Sydney. I think aganist teams with good small forwards we would get killed though. Think of StKilda (Milne, Schneider) Geelong (Stokes, Byrnes, Varcoe, Ablett) Hawthorn (Rioli, Stokes, Hooper) North Melbourne (Campbell, Thomas). I still prefer Toovey in my backline.

-----Maxwell-----Rambo------Shaw----
-----O'Brien------Presti------Toovey---

Or add another attacking player if Maxwell is loose which Malthouse often does (plays a seven man defense). This is the best way I see Johnson fitting in on a HBF (although I would prefer Buckley, Macaffer, Blight)

----Buckley-----Rambo-----Shaw-----
----------------Maxwell--------------
---O'Brien-------Presti------Toovey---

That means we'd play a five man forward line. The space may suit Medhurst or Rusling alot and work in our favour.

Why I like Medhurst on a forward flank is because he is so dangerous there. The way he sets up plays and gets so many goal assists is deadly. Many players often think he will be loading up for goal and does the team thing and kicks it certrally to the leading forward which is an element of his game I really rate highly.

I like Medhurst deep forward because he is such a goal threat. I think it's an important part of our forward line funtioning this year. However I see your point - he's very dangerous there (although he stuffs up F50 entries a bit). I see Didak on on flank and Lockyer or Macaffer on the other. Medhursts preseason may decide whether he is fit enough for a HFF.

Come to think of it Lockyer is a bit hesitant and probably doesn't have the composure coming out of defence. So in hindsight probably have to agree that he is better suited to the forward role. Though this was only a structural idea.

I think it is age catching up with him a bit. I don't remember him falling apart under pressure a few years ago. I think 2007 was his best year and that was off a HBF. I think thats past him now though. The HFF allows him to use his fitness to work into space up the ground and gives him the time to use his good kicking skills with less pressure spotting up forward targets. It also lets him push forward to create options - usually unopposed due to hard running - which is also good as he is a good set shot.

You are quite right about Toovey in the structural sense down back. He is very good on the small forwards. Just annoyingly I don't see him fitting in my best 22 to be able to fit him in my structure.

Good situation for the club to be in any case.

I will have a good rethink over the comming days of the ideal structure.

But really like your ideas as always Quicky. Great insight. You will be fantastic in the weekly coaching I'm sure!

EDIT: One other note. Is that Harry O'Brien has always voiced a desire to play on taller forwards (as opposed to smalls every week) which was also partically something I was considering structurally.

I'd like to see that quote if you can find it.

I think we would become pretty vulnerable to smalls if O'Brien wasn't playing on them particularly if Toovey is left out of the team. Personally i'd prefer to see him kept on the smalls as a rule depending on match ups of course given our plethora of other medium defenders. Seriously we have Maxwell, Goldsack, Reed, Blight, Macaffer, Buckley in addition to Tooves and O'Brien. We have less depth - and definitely less quality - in our small defender stocks.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

I'm not sure if on the internet as I'm pretty sure it was in a post match interview (televised on free to air tv). I'm pretty sure it was during the h+a season (2009). Would have been after a win and probably on one of his better games considering he was interviewed. It was just a comment where he said that he would like to go back to playing on taller opponents (he was suggesting KPP, but also possibly medium size which I took note of at the time).

Without a doubt we have a surplus of medium size backs which was what lead me onto the Lockyer idea at the time.

With a 2 man full forwardline how do you see JA fitting? I heard the club had an interest in increasing his versatility and pushing him up the ground a bit further, but would be interesting to hear your ideas on that one. Having just Rusling + Medhurst certainly could work.

In the 7 man rotation would have said it's too early to include Buckley, but Johnson/ Reid (I think could play on a back flank or as a sweeper quite easily with his great ability to read to ball and with his great disposal)/ Goldsack would be the players I would be looking it as alternatives to Buckley.

Macaffer while the plan for him is to become the Lockyer type utility, I really like him up forward. Whether it be deep or on a forward flank. His accuracy on goal is first rate and compareable with JA at his best.

 

[shawthing09]

Doesn't have the size, pace or strength nor is he good enough one on one to be used with any confidence as a defender. On the other hand the guy you are suggesting we drop is much better in all these aspects.

As others have mentioned Tarks still has a fair bit to offer, hard runner, good over head for his size, neat user of the ball, decent finisher. Will continue to play that floating link foward role and do it well IMO.