Team Rd 1

[macca23]

For the record, I completely disagree with this line of thinking, even though it's what the club is probably thinking.

These are the exact same mistakes we've made with selection in the past and refusing to pick kids because they weren't "dominating" in the SANFL. Failing to take a punt, playing it safe and selecting on the tick-a-box criteria.

There comes a point at the selection table when you have to look beyond pre-season form and use football judgement. If you continually pick on nothing but the tick-a-box form guide, there'll be some guys who never make the team. We know exactly what Tambling and Callinan are capable of and exactly what they can inject into our team. That's the reason we recruited them. Pick them. Don't make them languish in the SANFL "proving" that they're good enough to take Brad bl**dy Symes' position.

Callinan has been proving himself in the SANFL for how many years. If the team that finished 11th isn't going to pick him now, then when? I'd rather know sooner than later if he's got what it takes.

Fk me drunk, I think the sky's going to fall in!!

I actually agree with you!!

 

[SydCrow]

way too harsh on Symes - he runs harder, hits harder and kicks it least as well as Tambling IMO - he also knows how to find the ball

he is our #4 player according to 2010 Supercoach rankings

Stevens, Doughty and Reilly are #5, #6 and #10. Sloane is #9.

 

[crowman86]

Symes was one of the best in the 2nd game in the first week of the NAB cup and by all reports played well last week. He has deficiencies but the coaching stuff must agree the positives he brings to the side outweigh the negatives. I must say I agree with them. He provides a bigger body and 110% commitment at the ball. There was one game last year when both him and Tommo didn't play and from memory we were pushed around at stoppages all game and got smashed.

 

[Vader]

way too harsh on Symes - he runs harder, hits harder and kicks it least as well as Tambling IMO - he also knows how to find the ball

he is our #4 player according to 2010 Supercoach rankings

Stevens, Doughty and Reilly are #5, #6 and #10. Sloane is #9.

I did say that he does some things very well - and you've done a good job of identifying them. I still stand by my statement that he's a turnover looking for somewhere to happen.

I would not be the least bit disappointed to see Callinan selected in the 22, at Symes' expense.

 

[Bovo]

way too harsh on Symes - he runs harder, hits harder and kicks it least as well as Tambling IMO - he also knows how to find the ball

he is our #4 player according to 2010 Supercoach rankings

Stevens, Doughty and Reilly are #5, #6 and #10. Sloane is #9.

Please don't use supercoach as a guide to a players form. I am more interested in decision making, contested possession, um...kicking it to one of our players. I have no personal beef with Symes, however he does not deliver constantly enough in my opinion and may well be colourblind as he often turns the ball over by a perfect kick to the opposition. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt due to having to deal with two traumatic experiences (playing for Centrals and playing for the Power), however my patience is getting thin.

I fully agree with WALL-e, when Tambling feels like he fits in with our team, I reckon he will be hard to displace. No spot is safe, and I like that!

 

[Slippery Pete]

Please don't use supercoach as a guide to a players form. I am more interested in decision making, contested possession, um...kicking it to one of our players. I have no personal beef with Symes, however he does not deliver constantly enough in my opinion and may well be colourblind as he often turns the ball over by a perfect kick to the opposition. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt due to having to deal with two traumatic experiences (playing for Centrals and playing for the Power), however my patience is getting thin.

I fully agree with WALL-e, when Tambling feels like he fits in with our team, I reckon he will be hard to displace. No spot is safe, and I like that!

He'll be a very symbolic indication of just how much the selection attitudes have changed this year, if any. If we have a full list to choose from and Symes makes the 22, whilst we simultanouesly hear excuses as to why players like Callinan and Tambling "aren't ready," I'll be heading down to Glenelg to check out the end of the jetty.

I'm sure Vader will stop me from jumping though.

 

[SydCrow]

Please don't use supercoach as a guide to a players form. I am more interested in decision making, contested possession, um...kicking it to one of our players. I have no personal beef with Symes, however he does not deliver constantly enough in my opinion and may well be colourblind as he often turns the ball over by a perfect kick to the opposition. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt due to having to deal with two traumatic experiences (playing for Centrals and playing for the Power), however my patience is getting thin.

I fully agree with WALL-e, when Tambling feels like he fits in with our team, I reckon he will be hard to displace. No spot is safe, and I like that!

at least it is objective

SC uses Champion Data stats IIRC - that may explain why these guys keep getting picked

and as you note his Dogs and Power habits will take some time to break

 

[Vader]

He'll be a very symbolic indication of just how much the selection attitudes have changed this year, if any. If we have a full list to choose from and Symes makes the 22, whilst we simultanouesly hear excuses as to why players like Callinan and Tambling "aren't ready," I'll be heading down to Glenelg to check out the end of the jetty.

I'm sure Vader will stop me from jumping though.

I might throw you a life preserver after you've jumped, if you're really lucky.

I presume you've read my opinion of Symes and realise that what I expect the club to do, and what I would do if I were in charge, are two very different things. I wouldn't have Symes in my top-35. The club apparently see him in the best 22.

Tambling has been around long enough that we know what he's capable of at AFL level. He needs to get himself up to speed before he can be regarded as best 22 material. Callinan has a bit of X-factor about him, in that he offers something we don't already have in the team. He has nothing left to prove at SANFL level, so the only viable option is to give him a go at AFL level and see what he makes of it.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I might throw you a life preserver after you've jumped, if you're really lucky.

I'll take it.

 

[Coopers]

I'll take it.

It's got Vader germs.

 

[Bovo]

Tambling has been around long enough that we know what he's capable of at AFL level. He needs to get himself up to speed before he can be regarded as best 22 material. Callinan has a bit of X-factor about him, in that he offers something we don't already have in the team. He has nothing left to prove at SANFL level, so the only viable option is to give him a go at AFL level and see what he makes of it.

It would be a waste of everyone's time if Callinan did not get a spot in our 22. A waste of a rookie spot, a waste of time for Callinan, and a waste of time for the Crows. Mark my words, he will play, in some capacity. He will go down in Crows folklore as a Podsy, a player near the end of their career picked to play a handful of seasons to ensure a club does not sink down the ladder.
As for Tambling, he needs to get used to being able to make a mistake and the fans not hurling abuse at him. Ah Richmond, a club full of fans who like to drop crap at their front door....in a most literal way

 

[Slippery Pete]

It would be a waste of everyone's time if Callinan did not get a spot in our 22. A waste of a rookie spot, a waste of time for Callinan, and a waste of time for the Crows. Mark my words, he will play, in some capacity. He will go down in Crows folklore as a Podsy, a player near the end of their career picked to play a handful of seasons to ensure a club does not sink down the ladder.
As for Tambling, he needs to get used to being able to make a mistake and the fans not hurling abuse at him. Ah Richmond, a club full of fans who like to drop crap at their front door....in a most literal way

Love it.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I might throw you a life preserver after you've jumped, if you're really lucky.

I presume you've read my opinion of Symes and realise that what I expect the club to do, and what I would do if I were in charge, are two very different things. I wouldn't have Symes in my top-35. The club apparently see him in the best 22.

Tambling has been around long enough that we know what he's capable of at AFL level. He needs to get himself up to speed before he can be regarded as best 22 material. Callinan has a bit of X-factor about him, in that he offers something we don't already have in the team. He has nothing left to prove at SANFL level, so the only viable option is to give him a go at AFL level and see what he makes of it.

This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with you. It just doesn't feel right.

I've highlighted the only part I have an issue with - I just hope they don't make him stuff around for ages in the SANFL. I don't think Richard's the type of player who will benefit from that.

 

[Truck Rutten]

If Reilly's form were to drop, then he would be out of the team quick smart. Reinventing himself as a tagger was his only way of staying in the team - so far it's worked well for him, but there's nowhere else to go if it fails in the longer term.

I'm no fan of Symes. I think he has the same ultimate flaw as Cook - his disposal is bloody awful, particularly under pressure. As far as I'm concerned, he's a turnover looking for somewhere to happen. That said, he seems to be a favourite of the coaching staff because of all the other things he does, some of them very well.

Right now, Tambling is well out of the contest. Maybe that's because of how limited his pre-season was, maybe it's because he's still adjusting to our game plans and training methods. I don't know. All I know is that he needs to show a lot more before he can be regarded as an automatic selection in the senior team.

Callinan is in with a fighting chance, but I still think that there are at least 22 players ahead of him in the pecking order. It's not as if he's excelled in the MMC, the way some of the other youngsters have (eg Sloane). Callinan needs to prove that he's capable of being an AFL player, not just a very good SANFL player. The list of good SANFL players who failed to make the leap is a long and distinguished one. Time will tell which way his career goes - I certainly haven't made up my mind about him yet and I doubt the AFC management have made up theirs either.

Agree about Tambling. I had him on a HBF in the last team I did, assuming (perhaps a bit optimisticially) that he would have shown more by now, but Martin has been far more impressive there. Richie's probably just outside the 22 at the moment, but may sneak in due to being quite versatile.

Callinan was pretty good last weekend. Probably should have had a couple more goals. Missed 2 (both left foot snaps from memory) that I reckon he'd normally nail more often than not.

 

[Vader]

This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with you. It just doesn't feel right.

I've highlighted the only part I have an issue with - I just hope they don't make him stuff around for ages in the SANFL. I don't think Richard's the type of player who will benefit from that.

What alternative do we have though? His MMC campaign has been underwhelming. They can't afford to carry him in the team once the H&A season starts, doing so would be no different from the "gold pass" system which is so reviled. We have a stack of youngsters who are demanding selection, so we can't afford to be carrying players like Tambling who aren't.

 

[Bovo]

What alternative do we have though? His MMC campaign has been underwhelming. They can't afford to carry him in the team once the H&A season starts, doing so would be no different from the "gold pass" system which is so reviled. We have a stack of youngsters who are demanding selection, so we can't afford to be carrying players like Tambling who aren't.

This is another case where we would benefit with a "reserves" team over the SNAFL. However, as this does not exist I would think he should be given an opportunity to continue to be a first selection in the NAB series. Considering Tambling cost us two draft picks, I would be bloody disappointed if he was not picked to be in our regular 22. However I fully agree. No gold passes here. I just want the club to give him a decent opportunity to show us the potential that has has been hiding after all these years. I, like most, get the feeling he has sooo much more to deliver and can do so at our club. The balance between letting him get his confidence or shunning to the local league is a balance I am glad I am not part of.

 

[cmndstab]

I have no issue with Callinan being given a spot. He's earned it, he's old and mature enough, he already has brilliant training and SANFL form behind him. He's in the 22 for mine.

Tambling over Symes is an interesting one. Yes, Tambling is clearly the more talented player by a country mile. It is a very slippery slope though. If we start selecting Tambling over Symes despite form simply because "we think" that Tambling will be better, where does it end? Do we start dropping players just because we've made a prejudgement that, regardless of form, somebody else is better? What will this do to team morale? How will this encourage those talented players to actually put any kind of effort in?

If Tambling is that much more talented than Symes, then it won't be long before he forces his way into Symes' position anyway. Honestly, if he can't perform well enough to displace Symes, he probably doesn't deserve to play anyway. If he doesn't make our round 1 team, I'm willing to bet that he'll be in it by round 5, barring injury.

I think this idea that you play people because you think they'll be good, completely blind to the reality of their performances, is an extremely dangerous and unprofessional attitude to take.

 

[Vader]

This is another case where we would benefit with a "reserves" team over the SNAFL. However, as this does not exist I would think he should be given an opportunity to continue to be a first selection in the NAB series. Considering Tambling cost us two draft picks, I would be bloody disappointed if he was not picked to be in our regular 22. However I fully agree. No gold passes here. I just want the club to give him a decent opportunity to show us the potential that has has been hiding after all these years. I, like most, get the feeling he has sooo much more to deliver and can do so at our club. The balance between letting him get his confidence or shunning to the local league is a balance I am glad I am not part of.

I have no doubt that he'll continue playing for the whole of the MMC - the problem is that there are only 2 MMC games left. What happens when the MMC finishes and the H&A season begins? Team lists are culled from 26 to 22, 1 of which is the substitute. What happens if he hasn't shown a return to form by then?

 

[Bovo]

I have no issue with Callinan being given a spot. He's earned it, he's old and mature enough, he already has brilliant training and SANFL form behind him. He's in the 22 for mine.

Tambling over Symes is an interesting one. Yes, Tambling is clearly the more talented player by a country mile. It is a very slippery slope though. If we start selecting Tambling over Symes despite form simply because "we think" that Tambling will be better, where does it end? Do we start dropping players just because we've made a prejudgement that, regardless of form, somebody else is better? What will this do to team morale? How will this encourage those talented players to actually put any kind of effort in?

If Tambling is that much more talented than Symes, then it won't be long before he forces his way into Symes' position anyway. Honestly, if he can't perform well enough to displace Symes, he probably doesn't deserve to play anyway. If he doesn't make our round 1 team, I'm willing to bet that he'll be in it by round 5, barring injury.

I think this idea that you play people because you think they'll be good, completely blind to the reality of their performances, is an extremely dangerous and unprofessional attitude to take.

I will say it again. The answer is a "reserves" team. The only way to ensure all players get the nurture they require to make it to the big league. I remember seeing a lot of fringe players come through the Crows that never seemed to have got the opportunity to prove themselves. We hear it year in and year out. Player x is going to be the player that we have been looking for (Fergus Watts maybe a good example). However it never happened. We never really got to see them. The SANFL clubs have different priorities and this does not help the player get into the Crows squad. If Tambling is not good enough to play AFL, but is too good to play SANFL (same as Callinan)....then where do they really belong?

 

[Bovo]

I have no doubt that he'll continue playing for the whole of the MMC - the problem is that there are only 2 MMC games left. What happens when the MMC finishes and the H&A season begins? Team lists are culled from 26 to 22, 1 of which is the substitute. What happens if he hasn't shown a return to form by then?

I agree. Hands are tied. We have to pick the best 22 the coach believes will win. End of story. Can't believe the end of the Month and we will have real footy again!!!! w00t!

 

[Slippery Pete]

There's a fine line between "gold pass" and "foresight," but it does exist and it's a line the selectors are paid handsomely to delineate .

 

[cmndstab]

Surely that line occurs when you have close ties to break, not clear gaps in form?


Bovo - I agree that a reserves team would be fantastic. Unfortunately it would make a mockery of the SANFL, so it probably wouldn't be the best option for the state as a whole. The reality is, we don't have a reserves team so we have to make do with what we do have.

 

[Bovo]

Bovo - I agree that a reserves team would be fantastic. Unfortunately it would make a mockery of the SANFL, so it probably wouldn't be the best option for the state as a whole. The reality is, we don't have a reserves team so we have to make do with what we do have.

That is true, but we can't get upset when our Victorian counterparts who use reserve teams in the VFL and continue to get stronger whilst we get left behind.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Surely that line occurs when you have close ties to break, not clear gaps in form?

I think we can trace Craig's hardline with selection back to the 2007 Elimination Final when Roo was picked. After that day, I'm pretty sure the old tick-a-box checklist came into play and was not to be deviated from.

 

[Vader]

That is true, but we can't get upset when our Victorian counterparts who use reserve teams in the VFL and continue to get stronger whilst we get left behind.

I seem to remember them using reserves teams back in 2005 & 2006, when the non-Victorian teams were filling positions 1-4 on the ladder and the Victorians were wondering where their next flag was going to come from.

The SANFL is a stronger competition than the VFL. Certainly there are disadvantages in having our players spread out across the entire league, but there are also advantages which are often overlooked.

I think that a Crows reserves side in the SANFL would be a monumentally bad idea - both for the AFC and the SANFL. On the other hand, I would be fully supportive of a Crows reserves team in an AFL reserves competition (with players regarded as excess to the reserves being sent back to the SANFL). Such a competition would completely gut the VFL though, which is now dependent upon the AFL teams to an extent not seen in the SANFL or WAFL.