Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[TradeDraft]

Just had another look at Roos record at Melbourne. First year 4 wins, second year 7 wins, this year to date 9 wins. Further Goodwin has been in charge for several areas this year before he takes over in 2018.
How much improvement is due to Roos or is it Goodwin?
Nah, don't want.

Well I rather Roos then Buckley. I say Roos would have done quite a lot at Melbourne

 

[Maggie5]

Well I rather Roos then Buckley. I say Roos would have done quite a lot at Melbourne

Nope not me, happy to see how we go in 2017.
Never have been a big Roos fan.

 

[Temploar]

Never have been a big Roos fan.

Well of course you aren't a Kangaroos fan. You're a Collingwood supporter!

 

[TradeDraft]

Nope not me, happy to see how we go in 2017.
Never have been a big Roos fan.

Roo's has Results.

Buckley will begin 2017 in Charge but I doubt he be at the End IF trends keep going the way it is

 

[BPikkers]

Just had another look at Roos record at Melbourne. First year 4 wins, second year 7 wins, this year to date 9 wins. Further Goodwin has been in charge for several areas this year before he takes over in 2018.
How much improvement is due to Roos or is it Goodwin?
Nah, don't want.

I agree I don't think Roos is the right man. Actually he isn't even in contention as he has said he is moving to the States anyway.
Roos is a bit like MM. I'm sure he would be a popular bloke among the players. He seems to be a nurturing sort, because he was made monumental blunders through his coaching on game day. But that's probably all that's really required to get young kids playing with confidence. Melbourne have had the high draft picks and they got a coach who, I think, seems like a teacher and attempts to I still support and confidence in them. They look to have achieved that, so he passes the baton on.
Not sure if he would achieved significant improvement if he has a poor young list.

 

[Scodog10]

I don't think that Roos has done better than when Bailey was there. Bailey had a less talented squad as well.

Exactly! The only time Roos is the answer is if the question is who is the best mate of the guy that's running us into the ground off-field...

 

[Anzacday]

Exactly! The only time Roos is the answer is if the question is who is the best mate of the guy that's running us into the ground off-field...

Which probably means the Roos to us in 2018, (as per the rumours board) is a discussion that's been had.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

If there was a 328 page thread on the internet about you, would you at least skim read it?

If your smart, no way.
One thing sports people, political types could learn early doors,
The internet is NOT your friend.
As a general tool it tends to allow the aggrieved a wonderful opportunity to winge and complain and seek the worst.....

Ofcourse that's not everyone, but if you're an AFL type better to steer well clear of your constant sniping "friends"

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Well I rather Roos then Buckley. I say Roos would have done quite a lot at Melbourne

If Roos had done exactly what he's done at Melbourne at Collingwood, you'd be begging he be sacked just like Nathan.
I think Paul has done nicely at Melbourne but it's nothing better or worse than Nathan.
He does not have the cattle either.

 

[loki04]

No SPIN out of interest how do rate our "Brand" of footy or game style if you like?

I find us (even in ouŕ wins very) ugly to watch and often vanilla.
Even on our good days we are error riddled with very little exciting/special play types or very skilled passages of play to hang your hat on.

I actually feel sorry for Buckley as imo he took this role on at the wrong time he was a dead man walking from the outset.
If he was smarter or better advised he should of backed out of the deal when we won in 2010 let mick lose 2011 then lose a pf in 2012 (I have no doubt this would of occured) this would of seen a lot of calls for change and seen that the list rebuild would of been more tolerated, less player revolts and lessened expectations.

Can Buckley coach? well I'm fence sitting as I think the injuries are most certainly a valid reason but I must say it isn't looking good.

 

[MISFITS]

No SPIN out of interest how do rate our "Brand" of footy or game style if you like?

I find us (even in ouŕ wins very) ugly to watch and often vanilla.
Even on our good days we are error riddled with very little exciting/special play types or very skilled passages of play to hang your hat on.

I actually feel sorry for Buckley as imo he took this role on at the wrong time he was a dead man walking from the outset.
If he was smarter or better advised he should of backed out of the deal when we won in 2010 let mick lose 2011 then lose a pf in 2012 (I have no doubt this would of occured) this would of seen a lot of calls for change and seen that the list rebuild would of been more tolerated, less player revolts and lessened expectations.

Can Buckley coach? well I'm fence sitting as I think the injuries are most certainly a valid reason but I must say it isn't looking good.

Such a subjective part of history.
We shouldn't continue to go here.
My understanding was that Nathan was a little selfish in 2011.
The coaching staff and the playing group were expecting Nathan to do the honourable thing and step aside for a year or 2 until the team was past it's premiership window.
I agree. He certainly was in for a hiding to hell having lost the playing group before he started however it was a little of his own doing.

 

[ThePhantom777]

No SPIN
I actually feel sorry for Buckley as imo he took this role on at the wrong time he was a dead man walking from the outset.
If he was smarter or better advised he should of backed out of the deal when we won in 2010 let mick lose 2011 then lose a pf in 2012 (I have no doubt this would of occured) this would of seen a lot of calls for change and seen that the list rebuild would of been more tolerated, less player revolts and lessened expectations.

Agree with this. We had some top end senior guys who dropped off quickly (Didak, Tarrant, Jolly etc) and some of the young guys didn't come on as we'd like (Blair, Dawes etc) we needed to rebuild by bringing in new talent or load up with senior talent and have another crack at a flag. We opted for the former and now have to live with it.

 

[Quicky]

Our defensive set up and inability to stop teams repelling the ball out of our forward line and directly scoring from that chain are our biggest fundamental flaws.

8 from 14 goals that Richmond kicked on the weekend were plays generated from opposition defence.

It's far too common, if Bucks has to remain they better poach the best damn defensive coach available.

I dont expect it to change. It was the same story in his early years coaching with a strong team. We also ha e the issue of moving the ball from defense. Clearances despite access to quality players also an issue. Its structural.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Such a subjective part of history.
We shouldn't continue to go here.
My understanding was that Nathan was a little selfish in 2011.
The coaching staff and the playing group were expecting Nathan to do the honourable thing and step aside for a year or 2 until the team was past it's premiership window.
I agree. He certainly was in for a hiding to hell having lost the playing group before he started however it was a little of his own doing.

Nathan's supposed selfishness? MM burning bridges during 2011? Depends on what side of the fence you want to sit on.

 

[BPikkers]

I think a good was made last night. What is our strength and what is our style? Playing pressure footy should be a given. I'm just trying to work what is it that we do? Can't really pin point it when u watch us play.

 

[No SPIN]

So you are saying it is better to judge a young, inexperienced side on their best performance rather than their worst or any sort of average. I see some logic in your statement but the corresponding argument would be our consistent performance would end being somewhere between the best and the worst. In that sense I don't understand why our key wins are significant, our bad losses not. The way I see it is if we have closed the gap against the best we will have got closer to them on the ladder. I don't think the measure of improvement should be based on our three best performances and ignore the rest.

The text in bold reads condescending to me. If that was intended please let me know. I am happy to refrain from reading or responding to your posts, you could use the ignore button.

The recent example I will quote is NTH. MELB who a few years ago would win against the best and then drop "easy" games.
They have played in 2 PRELIMS since - so their performance against the best was a predictor of their potential once they became consistent.

 

[No SPIN]

No SPIN out of interest how do rate our "Brand" of footy or game style if you like?

I find us (even in ouŕ wins very) ugly to watch and often vanilla.
Even on our good days we are error riddled with very little exciting/special play types or very skilled passages of play to hang your hat on.

I actually feel sorry for Buckley as imo he took this role on at the wrong time he was a dead man walking from the outset.
If he was smarter or better advised he should of backed out of the deal when we won in 2010 let mick lose 2011 then lose a pf in 2012 (I have no doubt this would of occured) this would of seen a lot of calls for change and seen that the list rebuild would of been more tolerated, less player revolts and lessened expectations.

Can Buckley coach? well I'm fence sitting as I think the injuries are most certainly a valid reason but I must say it isn't looking good.

Agree with much of the above. I have it on very good authority that Bucks told Ed after 2010 flag that he would be happy for MM to continue - but Ed said no. Without MM as DF to calm the group Bucks was always going to have an uphill battles.

Re the game plan: I am concerned that is is very taxing - eg 118 tackles against WC and then 70 against Rich. So was the loss against Rich because we were stuffed after WC, if so then we may have a gameplan that is far too taxing for a full 23 rounds.
Finally we make hard work out of our wins because we are so inefficent inside 50 - if we improve this then we will put score board pressure on opponents much earlier and so potentially kill off games earlier, so high tackle counts and intensity is needed for less of the game.

 

[sr36]

What is to say another coach wouldn't have achieved the same under the same circumstances?
Utterly laughable to put it down to Roos.

There are many who believe that too much credit or discredit is given to leaders in all areas of life. Just out of curiosity, considering your views on both Bucks and Roos, do you believe that a coach plays a significant role in a team's success or lack thereof?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

There are many who believe that too much credit or discredit is given to leaders in all areas of life. Just out of curiosity, considering your views on both Bucks and Roos, do you believe that a coach plays a significant role in a team's success or lack thereof?

Or is the question what % of premierships are coach v Players on the list v other factors (eg injuries, relationships etc)

I'd have it playing group 80% coach 10 % * and other factors 10%

* a vital 10% ofcourse but if you don't have the players you just don't compete for the big prize in my view

 

[10571z]

Buckley is so lucky to have his job. Since he took over St kilda/ Bulldogs have done a proper rebuild and already gone infront of us.

Our drafting has been WOEFULL (not Buckleys fault as such)

For example

During a period with our first 4 picks in the draft we got 4 A graders

5. Pendles
2. Daisy
11. Sidey
29. Beams

Compared that to

Freeman, Scharenberg, Trealoar (2x first rounders)

You are getting 4 superstars to 1.

Makes a big difference in the long run and thats why we have been so poor.

 

[noideaatall]

Such a subjective part of history.
We shouldn't continue to go here.
My understanding was that Nathan was a little selfish in 2011.
The coaching staff and the playing group were expecting Nathan to do the honourable thing and step aside for a year or 2 until the team was past it's premiership window.
I agree. He certainly was in for a hiding to hell having lost the playing group before he started however it was a little of his own doing.

Can't help ourselves. If only we knew what went down -not sure whether your understanding is based on inside info? Did Nathan have as much choice as we assume. Publicly MM revealed he was all about MM and his relationship with the club had soured towards the end of 2011 but behind the scenes maybe this had been going on for a long while. Its conceivable the club heirarchy had a gut full of MM long before that and wanted him out.

 

[CFC2010]

Or is the question what % of premierships are coach v Players on the list v other factors (eg injuries, relationships etc)

I'd have it playing group 80% coach 10 % * and other factors 10%

* a vital 10% ofcourse but if you don't have the players you just don't compete for the big prize in my view

We aren't doing this again are we Saintly V?

 

[noideaatall]

Or is the question what % of premierships are coach v Players on the list v other factors (eg injuries, relationships etc)
I'd have it playing group 80% coach 10 % * and other factors 10%
* a vital 10% ofcourse but if you don't have the players you just don't compete for the big prize in my view

So would you break that 80% player group down further into x% recruitment and y% development, or does development come out of the 10% coach/ 10% other factors? I don't see clubs putting 80% of their FD funds into recruitment and you'd think they'd have the best idea as to how important each factor is in terms of winning premierships. Gut feeling you may be underestimating the importance of the coaching group with a 10% value and same with the other factors value.

 

[DWil6]

I'd put injuries at a higher % for sure. No team can cope with significant injuries to important players during finals, assuming they make it.

 

[TradeDraft]

Bucks said he had Coaches that don't get close. That is the Opposite what MM did