Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[Saintly Viewed]

I defy anyone to read right through this thread and not want to shoot themselves in the face. Same boring shit over and over again.

It's a vehicle for the aggrieved

 

[Maggie5]

Hypothetical to you and Saintly Viewed who don't hold the coach on a high pedestal like I do.

Hawthorn win the 2016 Premiership (booooooo) and Eddie with the help of Jeff Kennett and James Packer make him a deal he can't refuse.

Does your percentage for potential success increase under Clarkson or remain the same under Bucks?

Coach winning 3rd consecutive grand final? That answer is easy and would have less to do with coaching ability and more to do with membership.
But anyway, will try and imagine and state that given the exact scenario, doubt that the end result would be much difference.
The better hypothetical would be to compare Clarkson pre grand finals win to Buckley.
Winning grand finals gives coaches a lot more power.

 

[Spatfers]

Oh fact checking is something you should do too. Is it a fact that losses next week(s) with Pendles in the team is the end of Bucks as a coach. News to me. Would be big headlines if that is the case. Or is that your assumption /wishful thinking?
Fact is that the salt level of your comment on Pendles injury is above the healthy limits . And even now you go on about it. Hatred of Bucks as coach doesn't necessarily apply to the person or the player. Although there are some who do that too.
I don't think Bucks gives a toss whether Pendles plays and neither do I. It is how the usual suspects perform. Pendles is the least of our worries.

On the contrary, I think the results of the last few games will have a significant baring on expectations and pressure levels for next season.

You are clearly a Buckley apologist, so I won't bother arguing the value of incremental improvement in individual performances or close losses to teams in the top 8. I'll just let the rest of the season play out and watch with the realisation that nothing will come of Buckley's coaching but wasted years.

 

[Maggie5]

On the contrary, I think the results of the last few games will have a significant baring on expectations and pressure levels for next season.

You are clearly a Buckley apologist, so I won't bother arguing the value of incremental improvement in individual performances or close losses to teams in the top 8. I'll just let the rest of the season play out and watch with the realisation that nothing will come of Buckley's coaching but wasted years.

What is an apologist?
I seen that posted quite a lot in the forums, also cheer leaders.

 

[Mame]

What is an apologist?
I seen that posted quite a lot in the forums, also cheer leaders.

Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the discipline of defending a position (often religious) through the systematic use of information. Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists. In modern usage the term 'apologetics' is largely identified with debates over religion and theology in the USA and is rarely heard in the UK (although the related word 'apologist' is used in British English).

In political usage, apologetics is used in a negative fashion to describe the defence of controversial actions or policies, like terrorism or politically repressive governments.

In political usage, apologetics is used as a synonym for propaganda, to describe the defence of controversial actions or policies, like terrorism, torture or politically repressive governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

 

[Baltimore Jack]

On the contrary, I think the results of the last few games will have a significant baring on expectations and pressure levels for next season.

You are clearly a Buckley apologist, so I won't bother arguing the value of incremental improvement in individual performances or close losses to teams in the top 8. I'll just let the rest of the season play out and watch with the realisation that nothing will come of Buckley's coaching but wasted years.

You're not a Buckley hater, you say?

 

[Maggie5]

Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the discipline of defending a position (often religious) through the systematic use of information. Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists. In modern usage the term 'apologetics' is largely identified with debates over religion and theology in the USA and is rarely heard in the UK (although the related word 'apologist' is used in British English).

In political usage, apologetics is used in a negative fashion to describe the defence of controversial actions or policies, like terrorism or politically repressive governments.

In political usage, apologetics is used as a synonym for propaganda, to describe the defence of controversial actions or policies, like terrorism, torture or politically repressive governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

Is this the what is meant when used on BF? If so, can't see how it relates.
Maybe it is meant as an insult if one is not part of a lynch mob?

 

[Spatfers]

You're not a Buckley hater, you say?

yep. Its not his fault he isn't a good senior coach, he works very hard, it just hasn't worked. The best players very rarely make good senior coaches (I have bolded that so you don't have to pick particular words out of my posts to try and manipulate them to what you want them to mean).

 

[Spatfers]

Is this the what is meant when used on BF? If so, can't see how it relates.
Maybe it is meant as an insult if one is not part of a lynch mob?

No, it simply refers to people who make excuses for other peoples' failures.

 

[CFC2010]

Coach winning 3rd consecutive grand final? That answer is easy and would have less to do with coaching ability and more to do with membership.
But anyway, will try and imagine and state that given the exact scenario, doubt that the end result would be much difference.
The better hypothetical would be to compare Clarkson pre grand finals win to Buckley.
Winning grand finals gives coaches a lot more power.

I rate him the best because he has been able to re-invent the wheel since he became Coach at the Hawks e.g Lets draft left footers who can hit a target......then lets chip the ball around to break the zone........all the gun players having the ability to play in all positions when necessary.....e.t.c

Also the fact he has kept this group motivated and hungry after three in a row is a testament to the Coach and no one else.
That part I heard straight from Hodges mouth a few weeks ago.

Even Craig Bellamy has asked Clarkson to come in and speak to his team.........just quietly I rate Bellamy as a great Coach also.

The Coach is King in my eyes I think you and Saintly Viewed underestimate that fact but again that is just my opinion.

 

[Maggie5]

No, it simply refers to people who make excuses for other peoples' failures.

So used as an insult, I get it now.
So no value in reading posts that contain the word, thanks.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I rate him the best because he has been able to re-invent the wheel since he became Coach at the Hawks e.g Lets draft left footers who can hit a target......then lets chip the ball around to break the zone........all the gun players having the ability to play in all positions when necessary.....e.t.c

Also the fact he has kept this group motivated and hungry after three in a row is a testament to the Coach and no one else.
That part I heard straight from Hodges mouth a few weeks ago.

Even Craig Bellamy has asked Clarkson to come in and speak to his team.........just quietly I rate Bellamy as a great Coach also.

The Coach is King in my eyes I think you and Saintly Viewed underestimate that fact but again that is just my opinion.

I agree re the coach being King, but without his subjects the King is just a self ruler on an island, in my view.
Funny thing, Clarkson, early doors, just scraped through remaining as coach.
Fickle business football.

Hawthorn era of the 1970s: Matthews, Knights, Hudson, Scott, Tuck, K Moore.etc
Hawthorn 1980s: Matthews (some of it) Langford, Dunstall, Platten, Brereton etc
Hawthorn now: Mitchell, Hodge, Riolli, Franklin (some of it) Roughead, Lewis, Burgoyne etc then recruited Lake, Frawley

All hawthorn "era" sides had terrific coaches but if you don't think their elite players have the biggest effect, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Spatfers]

So used as an insult, I get it now.
So no value in reading posts that contain the word, thanks.

If you are insulted by words like that you may as well not read any forums mate.

 

[Maggie5]

I rate him the best because he has been able to re-invent the wheel since he became Coach at the Hawks e.g Lets draft left footers who can hit a target......then lets chip the ball around to break the zone........all the gun players having the ability to play in all positions when necessary.....e.t.c

Also the fact he has kept this group motivated and hungry after three in a row is a testament to the Coach and no one else.
That part I heard straight from Hodges mouth a few weeks ago.

Even Craig Bellamy has asked Clarkson to come in and speak to his team.........just quietly I rate Bellamy as a great Coach also.

The Coach is King in my eyes I think you and Saintly Viewed underestimate that fact but again that is just my opinion.

Just goes to show how important that 25% is.
Was it his idea to draft those players?
Do you know the chain of command at Hawthorn? How does it compare to us?
What was the situation at Hawthorn pre grand final wins?
So much either of us don't know.
If I hadn't seen enough when the good Collingwood turns up, I might agree with you but I have seen what we are capable of.
Not a follower of rugby so not in a position to comment.

 

[PicaBoo]

On the contrary, I think.

That is not on the contrary, it is confirming that it is your opinion and not a fact.
I would say that unless faced with a players led revolt or something real dramatic, Bucks will coach out the the year. Next year is his last contracted year. What happens after is everyone guess.
The last matches of this year will set the tone for the next, that is a certainty.
Effort from the whole team is more important then the result. Rather have an honorable loss with players trying then a best 22 on paper but MIA on the field like last Friday. No plan survives without effort.
Which is why Pendles is irrelevant imho. When is the last time that we lost and said that Pendles output was the main reason for losing?

 

[Spatfers]

That is not on the contrary, it is confirming that it is your opinion and not a fact.
I would say that unless faced with a players led revolt or something real dramatic, Bucks will coach out the the year. Next year is his last contracted year. What happens after is everyone guess.
The last matches of this year will set the tone for the next, that is a certainty.
Effort from the whole team is more important then the result. Rather have an honorable loss with players trying then a best 22 on paper but MIA on the field like last Friday. No plan survives without effort.
Which is why Pendles is irrelevant imho. When is the last time that we lost and said that Pendles output was the main reason for losing?

Good point, I agree

 

[CFC2010]

I agree re the coach being King, but without his subjects the King is just a self ruler on an island, in my view.
Funny thing, Clarkson, early doors, just scraped through remaining as coach.
Fickle business football.

Hawthorn era of the 1970s: Matthews, Knights, Hudson, Scott, Tuck, K Moore.etc
Hawthorn 1980s: Matthews (some of it) Langford, Dunstall, Platten, Brereton etc
Hawthorn now: Mitchell, Hodge, Riolli, Franklin (some of it) Roughead, Lewis, Burgoyne etc then recruited Lake, Frawley

All hawthorn "era" sides had terrific coaches but if you don't think their elite players have the biggest effect,we will just have to agree to disagree .

I have already posted that rumour about Kennett sacking Clarkson was bullshit.

I still subscribe to the theory we would never have won in 1990 without Mathews. He was a COACH!

Like you said we will just have to agree to disagreel

 

[CFC2010]

Just goes to show how important that 25% is.
Was it his idea to draft those players?
Do you know the chain of command at Hawthorn? How does it compare to us?
What was the situation at Hawthorn pre grand final wins?
So much either of us don't know.
If I hadn't seen enough when the good Collingwood turns up, I might agree with you but I have seen what we are capable of.
Not a follower of rugby so not in a position to comment.

The drafting of left footers and players with elite kicking was his idea......that I know.
The game style of the possession game was taken from his expedition trips watching the EPL again is a Clarkson initiative.

Your other question as you rightly point out I cant answer.

I have never dismissed what our team is capable of and have always given Bucks credit when it has been warranted (e.g Cats game)

 

[Maggie5]

If you are insulted by words like that you may as well not read any forums mate.

Not a mate, but will continue to use forums just ignore posters that use 'apologists'.

 

[Roverjg]

Coach winning 3rd consecutive grand final? That answer is easy and would have less to do with coaching ability and more to do with membership.
But anyway, will try and imagine and state that given the exact scenario, doubt that the end result would be much difference.
The better hypothetical would be to compare Clarkson pre grand finals win to Buckley.
Winning grand finals gives coaches a lot more power.

When Clarkson took over the Hawks they were second last on the ladder
In his first season they finished 3rd last (winning record of 22.7%)
In his 2nd season they finished 11th out of 16
In his 3rd season they finished 5th out of 16
In his 4th season they won the premiership (his overall win loss by this time was 52%)

 

[Maggie5]

I have already posted that rumour about Kennett sacking Clarkson was bullshit.

I still subscribe to the theory we would never have won in 1990 without Mathews. He was a COACH!

Like you said we will just have to agree to disagreel

Gee, how did we get from Clarkson to Mathews?
Had a good group of players around him, few major injuries, just a matter of team selection.
Was annoyed when we replaced him.
His achievements at Brisbane cannot be understated but gee he had the cattle.

 

[Maggie5]

When Clarkson took over the Hawks they were second last on the ladder
In his first season they finished 3rd last (winning record of 22.7%)
In his 2nd season they finished 11th out of 16
In his 3rd season they finished 5th out of 16
In his 4th season they won the premiership (his overall win loss by this time was 52%)

Not sure what your point is but can you also look at the players recruited as maybe will help fill in the full story.

 

[Maggie5]

CFC2010, how much much better would Brisbane's position be if Clarkson were coach, taking into account their current players, injuries etc?

 

[CFC2010]

CFC2010, how much much better would Brisbane's position be if Clarkson were coach, taking into account their current players, injuries etc?

That Club has been a basket case for a long time.

One thing I can guarantee you is that the players would respect him........they don't Leppitsch.

Respect is always a good start in any successful relationship.

 

[Maggie5]

That Club has been a basket case for a long time.

One thing I can guarantee you is that the players would respect him........they don't Leppitsch.

Respect is always a good start in any successful relationship.

You know the funniest thing about this thread?
No matter what either of us believes or wants to happen in the end we have no say but just like loyal sheep will continue to follow the black and white.
But still a good outlet to respectfully disagree.