Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

[Father Jack]

Is it? Where do you think that line is exactly? Zygote? Blastocyst? Embryo? Fetus? Newborn? Infant?

I've never seen any consensus on personhood. Certainly not from a scientific point of view.

I have no doubt that in a more enlightened future, should humans make it that far, abortion for convenience will be looked back on as a barbaric practice of a primitive society.

That's the crux of it, people have differing opinions on the point of personhood, but only one side of the argument wishes to inflict their beliefs on others, even though the actual decision has nothing to do with them, and they don't have to deal with the significant ramifications of this decision.

And bullshit we'll look back on abortion as a barbaric practice, far more likely that we'll view the forcing of women to have unwanted pregnancies go full term as the true barbarism. Let's face it, the vast majority of anti-abortionists are religious, and it's absolutely barbaric to force your religious views on others.

 

[Monkey King]

Yes. How does that reduce his responsibility?

It doesn't. Both have equal responsibility for outcome. Both have equal choice at conception. My point is, there is not equal choice post-conception.

Your posts have only reinforced that fact.

 

[kranky al]

It doesn't. Both have equal responsibility for outcome. Both have equal choice at conception. My point is, there is not equal choice post-conception.

Your posts have only reinforced that fact.

Course there isnt equal choice post conception

only one of the parties has to undergo pregnancy with the physical, mental and life limiting consequences that go with it.

how many women with clear upwards career trajectories have been stifled by unwanted pregnancies in states in the us that make abortion near impossible.

 

[Monkey King]

And bullshit we'll look back on abortion as a barbaric practice, far more likely that we'll view the forcing of women to have unwanted pregnancies go full term as the true barbarism. Let's face it, the vast majority of anti-abortionists are religious, and it's absolutely barbaric to force your religious views on others.

I am of no doubt that killing unborn kids will be looked back on as being as being barbaric. It's a no-brainer.

Not interested in the "force your views" point. Legal consequences re sanctity of life abound. If someone rapes my daughter, I am not permitted to seek retribution, even if the legal system fails her. We have others' views of right and wrong forced upon us every day.

All that said, I agree with your first sentence. I don't support legislation limiting choice. I think personal choice is important. I just have my own viewpoint re abortion, that it's a pretty sick practice and certainly a situation I took great care to avoid in my life.

 

[Monkey King]

Course there isnt equal choice post conception

only one of the parties has to undergo pregnancy with the physical, mental and life limiting consequences that go with it.

9 months. My irresponsible mate is 15 years into providing a percentage of his labour to paying child support for a kid he didn't want. Had to abandon building his own business and take a steady paying job when the kid was born and has worked for someone else every since. Totally altered the course of his life.

As Chief said, he had a choice at conception. But from there, pro-choice isn't a choice for everyone.

 

[kranky al]

9 months. My irresponsible mate is 15 years into providing a percentage of his labour to paying child support for a kid he didn't want. Had to abandon building his own business and take a steady paying job when the kid was born and has worked for someone else every since. Totally altered the course of his life.

As Chief said, he had a choice at conception. But from there, pro-choice isn't a choice for everyone.

Yeah i agree that something should be done if its a one nighter and one of the parties doesnt want to go ahead with it.

im more firm in the concept that if a woman doesnt want to carry it she shouldnever be forced to

 

[kranky al]

Seriously, get a clue. Obama rode on the wave? Jesus,was dumped right in it!

Lehman Bros went under in Sept 2008 (Bear Stern was the first inkling in March 2008). Obama was elected Nov 2008. The full impact of the GFC didn’t occur until 2009.

Hit prediction

the cattery will still claim that obama was somehow gifted a great economy from here till the end of time.

doesnt matter what facts and figuresyou present you can never have a debate with these people - they will never acknowledge a fault in their side but will always expect you to do you In yours.

Its s hidebound cult ideology - you cant reason with it.
The cattery will keep making this claim forever - or unless the magas claim something different - in which case he will then claim that something different - even if it completely contradicts what hes saying now - he will pivot on a dime and simply ignore you when you quote what he said before.

 

[Chief]

i dont think a guy should be on the hook as hard as it is now for an unplanned.

but on the other hand he gets absolutely no say if she doesnt want to keep it.

its her body - her choice

While it’s unborn it’s the mother’s choice.

After its born it’s about what’s best for the child. So yes, the father contributes whether he wanted to keep the baby or not. That’s the way it is.

 

[kranky al]

While it’s unborn it’s the mother’s choice.

After its born it’s about what’s best for the child. So yes, the father contributes whether he wanted to keep the baby or not. That’s the way it is.

I don’t necessarily think thats right - whether or not that is “the way it is”

Perhaps girls can register as being opposed to abortion - so guys know to take every precaution or stay away

 

[Chief]

I don’t necessarily think thats right - whether or not that is “the way it is”

Perhaps girls can register as being opposed to abortion - so guys know to take every precaution or stay away

Perhaps guys can assume the rules will apply to them and take every precaution anyway?

 

[kranky al]

Perhaps guys can assume the rules will apply to them and take every precaution anyway?

I feel that if before conception the agreed course of action on an accident is to get rid of it - a change of mind shouldnt be the other persons problem

contraception doesnt always work

 

[Chief]

I feel that if before conception the agreed course of action on an accident is to get rid of it - a change of mind shouldnt be the other persons problem

contraception doesnt always work

I am sure a lawyer could write you up an agreement like that. I am not sure if it is enforceable.

 

[kranky al]

I am sure a lawyer could write you up an agreement like that. I am not sure if it is enforceable.

The point being that its not right that it isnt

 

[Punt rd end]

I feel that if before conception the agreed course of action on an accident is to get rid of it - a change of mind shouldnt be the other persons problem

contraception doesnt always work

I don't think after a night out on the booze the young couple (particularly if they have just met) are going to be discussing any what if agreements.

 

[armpit]

Voluntary Vasectomies is a far better approach to birth control. It is far less intrusive. Go men.

 

[Financialpanther]

Voluntary Vasectomies is a far better approach to birth control. It is far less intrusive. Go men.

Stock up on frozen peas

 

[kranky al]

Perhaps guys can assume the rules will apply to them and take every precaution anyway?

Perhaps we could have an app that indicates consent and the outcome of an accidental pregnancy

 

[Chief]

The point being that its not right that it isnt

I disagree. The child's interests are ahead of the parents. Both parents have responsibility.

 

[Chief]

Perhaps we could have an app that indicates consent and the outcome of an accidental pregnancy

Doubt it will happen.

 

[Monkey King]

I disagree. The child's interests are ahead of the parents. Both parents have responsibility.

Unless the child is unborn and the female parent doesn't want the responsibility.

I get that your ideology dictates adherence to this viewpoint, but surely you can still step back and admit there is inequity here?

 

[Chief]

Unless the child is unborn and the female parent doesn't want the responsibility.

I get that your ideology dictates adherence to this viewpoint, but surely you can still step back and admit there is inequity here?

Ideology? It’s just plain common sense to me.

 

[Cuzz09]

I think abortion is like taking a s**t.... or it isnt

 

[Monkey King]

Ideology? It’s just plain common sense to me.

What you have is an act that creates life, being equally dependent on two people i.e equally responsible. When you start attributing them different responsibilities at different stages, you're just engaging in subjective rule making, not common sense observation.

 

[tandino]

Just pull out.

 

[Chief]

What you have is an act that creates life, being equally dependent on two people i.e equally responsible. When you start attributing them different responsibilities at different stages, you're just engaging in subjective rule making, not common sense observation.

No. I'm not.