The Academies - 2016

[isamedthegiants]

Yes Narrandera and Gullie have always been huge AFL towns.

Is your argument about growing the game in the Riverina or is it about getting more hand outs?

3,871 population of Narrandera.
399 (actually Kennedy lives in Sydney now) so 398 population of Collingullie.

They're not huge anything towns.

My argument is two fold:

1) Without the Riverina the GWS will be more dependant on the AFL for a longer period of time, for a greater amount of money.

2) Until the GWS academy the Riverina produced 2 top 20 picks from 2000-2014. It spikes to 5 if you include our kids from last year.

Is your argument about anything other than emotion and the fact a club you hate actually has something positive going for it?

 

[bird_man]

3,871 population of Narrandera.
399 (actually Kennedy lives in Sydney now) so 398 population of Collingullie.

They're not huge anything towns.

My argument is two fold:

1) Without the Riverina the GWS will be more dependant on the AFL for a longer period of time, for a greater amount of money.

2) Until the GWS academy the Riverina produced 2 top 20 picks from 2000-2014. It spikes to 5 if you include our kids from last year.

Is your argument about anything other than emotion and the fact a club you hate actually has something positive going for it?

I think you confuse me with someone who hate GWS? Not the case at all. I hope they win the flag this year.

I'm just pushing for a fair competition. I think it was fair enough that you've been given a heap of hand outs to get some interest into the club.

I'd love to see the Riverina have a side in the TAC cup, I think we would see a similar result if not better for draftees.

Why would GWS be more dependant on the AFL if they didn't have the Riverina? You guys are based in Sydney, I don't know anyone from Wagga that drives to Sydney to watch the Giants?

 

[isamedthegiants]

I think you confuse me with someone who hate GWS? Not the case at all. I hope they win the flag this year.

I'm just pushing for a fair competition. I think it was fair enough that you've been given a heap of hand outs to get some interest into the club.

I'd love to see the Riverina have a side in the TAC cup, I think we would see a similar result if not better for draftees.

Why would GWS be more dependant on the AFL if they didn't have the Riverina? You guys are based in Sydney, I don't know anyone from Wagga that drives to Sydney to watch the Giants?

I assume you know the entire population of Wagga Wagga then.

I mean if you don't know then, then it doesn't happen, right?

A fair competition gives anyone a chance to win on any day, correct?

We can have as many Auskick clinics as we want trying to grow a fan base from Moorebank to Mt Vernon, Balmain to Blackheath, but the number of players that will take up the sport, grow into AFL ready draftees would be close to 1 in 75,000,000

Can we have Father/Sons? No. We can't.

How can we combat that?

Give us an area, again, you can name it, where there is already an interest in the AFL, where we can put our own time, money, resources into, and try and develop the kids into AFL players...Of which, we can't draft them all, which brings up the standard of the players available for all clubs to be drafted.

 

[bird_man]

I assume you know the entire population of Wagga Wagga then.

I mean if you don't know then, then it doesn't happen, right?

A fair competition gives anyone a chance to win on any day, correct?

We can have as many Auskick clinics as we want trying to grow a fan base from Moorebank to Mt Vernon, Balmain to Blackheath, but the number of players that will take up the sport, grow into AFL ready draftees would be close to 1 in 75,000,000

Can we have Father/Sons? No. We can't.

How can we combat that?

Give us an area, again, you can name it, where there is already an interest in the AFL, where we can put our own time, money, resources into, and try and develop the kids into AFL players...Of which, we can't draft them all, which brings up the standard of the players available for all clubs to be drafted.

If you can't build the game in Western Sydney so it's popular enough to get one player every ten or so years that's good enough to play AFL than there is no point being there.

And don't you get Canberra as well? I think you've already drafted more from Canberra than we've had father sons in 32 years.

As I said I'm more than happy you have had the gifts you've got, but I think the AFL will put a stop to it very shortly.

 

[Turbocat]

I'm 37.

AFL will never be dominant in Sydney in my lifetime.

Never.

I doubt thats the objective. If its is , its way of in some sort of delusional future. I think the numbers up there mean they would be happy to carve out a proportion of population.

 

[isamedthegiants]

If you can't build the game in Western Sydney so it's popular enough to get one player every ten or so years that's good enough to play AFL than there is no point being there.

We will. We are. But it will take 15 years to get the first player.

And don't you get Canberra as well? I think you've already drafted more from Canberra than we've had father sons in 32 years.

But not as many as as other clubs have had Father/Sons.

As I said I'm more than happy you have had the gifts you've got, but I think the AFL will put a stop to it very shortly.

I don't think you know what 'happy' means.

 

[Turbocat]

How about this as an idea for the review into Academy fairness:

The discounts are linked to finishing position:

Finish 18th - 18% discount

Finish 1st - 1% discount

Is this really about cost? Its about a constant flow of talent , not what its costing because the cost even with no discount will not prevent their drafting if the kids are good enough. The fact is if it was just one or two R3 kids ..this wouldn't be an issue. How much effort has been put into them , and where they are from is secondary. Heeney for example..Swan paid P18 ish for him , every club would pay use picks to have him at P2 for sure. So Heeney and Mill basically its like to very early R1 picks to a top 4 side. GWS having so many kids have so much talent to trade out, some just will never get a chance up there.

 

[Suma Magic]

Is this really about cost? Its about a constant flow of talent , not what its costing because the cost even with no discount will not prevent their drafting if the kids are good enough. The fact is if it was just one or two R3 kids ..this wouldn't be an issue. How much effort has been put into them , and where they are from is secondary. Heeney for example..Swan paid P18 ish for him , every club would pay use picks to have him at P2 for sure. So Heeney and Mill basically its like to very early R1 picks to a top 4 side. GWS having so many kids have so much talent to trade out, some just will never get a chance up there.

I don't think there should be any discount. Priority access is more than enough reward for investment.

Was more of a policy thought bubble.

 

[Hollow Knight]

 

[Andre the Giant]

I haven't even heard what Eddy has said and I don't care. This has been my feeling for a long time.

GWS aren't pumping money into the area so they can get one player every 15 years. They are meant to be growing the game there, getting kids to play footy and if a few come through and play for the club its a bonus.

You guys have had an amazing run with hand outs, and I'm not complaining because I want to see the club make it and if they aren't successful there is no hope of that.

But the AFL has worked hard for decades now to make sure we have an even competition and what we have now is far from fair.

Is it fair that you have had a 133 year head start with supporters, sponsors, junior leagues and that you are from the state that produces over 50% of Draftable talent? Is that not a free kick??

Is it fair that we have already lost Tom Boyd (pick1) Johnno O'Rourke(pick2) Lachie Plowman (pick3) Dom Tyson (pick3) Liam Sumner (pick10) Kristian Jaksch (pick12) Taylor Adams (pick13) and Adam Treloar (pick 1 talent) within 5 years??

Is it fair that we have Victorian and WA clubs offering ridiculous grandfather deals to our players whilst they are still under contract to induce them to break their contracts?? (BOYD/MCCARTHY)

The clubs ticked off on all the allowances and now only getting pissed because we could be more than a feeder club.

This is just sour grapes and really pathetic.

At least let us win a final before digging the boot in...

 

[Turbocat]

I don't think there should be any discount. Priority access is more than enough reward for investment.

Was more of a policy thought bubble.

I have no issue for discount if they have developed them... but perhaps there is a need to limit numbers.

Perhaps if the whole comp is better for the academy idea then perhaps each club should have a zone/academy pick of their own. Even in AFL states there are plenty of kids that choose or get tempted by other sports..so there is some sort of symmetry there. Of course , once we draw the talent in, a club will just take the best available. Be crazy not to. Im sure you would like the 1st or 2nd best kid in WA each year. We can take the best Geelong Falcon and then , after we have all had 1 kid , the bountiful excess developed thru the academy systems all over Australia will mean there are more kids for every one to choose from when we all go to draft. If NSW kids are available at their pick, choose them..just like you have the option of a WA kid or we have an option for a local. We picked Ling with P38 for eg. Perhaps because of no FS , and extra kid every 3-5 years or whatever is the average rate of FS.

 

[eastfreo75]

Is it fair that you have had a 133 year head start with supporters, sponsors, junior leagues and that you are from the state that produces over 50% of Draftable talent? Is that not a free kick??

Is it fair that we have already lost Tom Boyd (pick1) Johnno O'Rourke(pick2) Lachie Plowman (pick3) Dom Tyson (pick3) Liam Sumner (pick10) Kristian Jaksch (pick12) Taylor Adams (pick13) and Adam Treloar (pick 1 talent) within 5 years??

Is it fair that we have Victorian and WA clubs offering ridiculous grandfather deals to our players whilst they are still under contract to induce them to break their contracts?? (BOYD/MCCARTHY)

The clubs ticked off on all the allowances and now only getting pissed because we could be more than a feeder club.

This is just sour grapes and really pathetic.

At least let us win a final before digging the boot in...

The thing is that you have so many talented young players, that is impossible to keep in the cap and that they don't want to play reserves.

The fact is the GWS is disadvantaged but the AFL have given too much.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The thing is that you have so many talented young players, that is impossible to keep in the cap and that they don't want to play reserves..

So what's the issue then? Won't the salary cap mean that any excess talent GWS get will naturally flow to other clubs?

 

[Fatcat08]

they wont be eligible just like lachie weller wasnt eligible for GC

At least learn the rules on academy eligibility if you're going to post about it. Eligibility is solely based on time spent living in the academy area not time spent on an academy list. If you've lived in an academy zone for 5 years you can sign up to that academy at any time before you're drafted and meet the criteria. The 5 year rule is a residential requirement only not a participation one.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

So our academy was meant to have instant success in non-traditional areas with kids that never played AFL before we came along?

That was the standard we had to meet?

Pretty hard yardstick.

What are we? A football club or demi-gods?

I guess Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane possess divine powers then? What makes GWS so special? Do Callum Mills and Isaac Heeney actually exist or are they mythological beings? I'm confused, why does GWS get to claim special snowflake status and demand access to ready-made AFL players under the farcical excuse of "giving them a pathway" to the AFL? Honestly, the mere suggestion that there was no pathway to the AFL from the Riverina is ****ing farcical. Some of the best players in the game have walked out of there. Half the Riverina is within a two hour drive to a TAC cup club.

And the way this is being argued is just the epitome of intellectual dishonesty. No, this is not about academies being patently unfair, this is about one academy far out-stepping the boundaries of what an academy could be. I have no idea why I keep trying to talk to you about this when all you want to do is stamp your baby feetsies and scream about how we hate GWS, how we have impossible standards and don't want to support NSW. But nevertheless, I'm nothing if not persistent.

The purpose of academies is two-fold.

1. Provide priority access into state clubs for local players in non-traditional areas to increase the appeal of the AFL compared to professional sports which can be played in the home state.
2. Develop younger players from non-traditional AFL backgrounds to mitigate the disadvantage of playing in an area where australian rules football is played by very few.

The Riverina area meets neither of those. It is AFL heartland (formerly a breeding ground for South Melbourne) and six hours away from Sydney. QED, it does not need to be part of an academy. Real simple shit. And all you've got to argue in your favor is a lack of draftees from the Riverina in a few recent albeit cherry-picked years. Like no other area in Australia has drops. When was the last time somebody was drafted from the Pilbara?

You've just said it yourself, the reason you want the Riverina to continue being part of the GWS zone is because you want immediate access to skilled players. You don't want to have to wait for success in non-traditional areas. Tough shit, that's what academies were meant to be.

 

[eastfreo75]

So what's the issue then? Won't the salary cap mean that any excess talent GWS get will naturally flow to other clubs?

GWS will go down the ladder like other teams do. They will keep getting high drafts forever in a day. There is 22 first round draft picks on your current team. How is that right?

 

[LittleG]

At least learn the rules on academy eligibility if you're going to post about it. Eligibility is solely based on time spent living in the academy area not time spent on an academy list. If you've lived in an academy zone for 5 years you can sign up to that academy at any time before you're drafted and meet the criteria. The 5 year rule is a residential requirement only not a participation one.

Moral of the story:
Beware of giants giving you magic beans.
Hint: don't take the beans unless you want to play NEAFL.

 

[1892]

So what's the issue then? Won't the salary cap mean that any excess talent GWS get will naturally flow to other clubs?

2 problems, we've seen that players will take less money to stay at successful clubs and if good players leave GWS will get yet more first round picks creating a never ending flow of talent.

Good players leaving doesn't seem to have much impact either as they've got that much talent in reserve that another star kid simply steps up to fill the void while their new draft picks develop.

 

[kreglze]

TBH The Academy should stay for sure, but perhaps the Riverina area could be reviewed I honestly don't know how you solve it?

Besides it would be unfair on GWS to change anything for this upcoming draft after they have built a strategy over the past 8 months, you can't just change the goals on them from a moments notice without giving them prior notice.

 

[1892]

TBH The Academy should stay for sure, but perhaps the Riverina area could be reviewed I honestly don't know how you solve it?

Besides it would be unfair on GWS to change anything for this upcoming draft after they have built a strategy over the past 8 months, you can't just change the goals on them from a moments notice without giving them prior notice.

Have only read the last couple of pages, so these may have been mentioned:

• Limit the number of players able to be recruited from an academy per year (perhaps 1 or 2 per year), the rest go into the open draft increasing the talent pool for all clubs. Local clubs could still draft these players if they held the right picks.

• Bring the Riverina area/southern NSW into line with WA/SA/NT/Vic academies, ie only indigenous or multicutural talents

• Minimum time (3 years?) in an academy to be eligible for bidding

• Residential restrictions, ie if a player moves out of a zone/to a non local state for school etc they become ineligible

My preference would be either:

• Get rid of exclusive zones and give all clubs the same access to sign academy players, like how it was with the NSW scholarship program, but put development conditions in place. If kids want to stay local they will sign with a local club.

• Get rid of all club academies and have development managed by the AFL

 

[Bltiger]

Here is what I don't quite understand with all this concern over the Academies from Eddie.

If he is so concerned with them becoming much stronger, then why on earth did he give them perhaps the best leader/marking/running defender of the last perhaps 7 or 8 years in Heath Shaw!

It's all very well to a bunch of young guns but without this guy's leadership & experience, they are pretty much vulnerable to most teams in the competition.
Heath Shaw, thanks to Eddie & Bucks, is where this team gets it's amazing run & drive from.

Idiot Ed!

You had him right in the palm of your hand & you gave him up to the very team & system you fear, when he very much said he wanted to stay a Pie for the rest of his career!

Eddie is done because he is too short sighted!

Heath shaw is a big time d#ug head introducing it to younger players being a bad influence. Collingwood had to trade him if you had any idea. You must have a Sad life hey always hating Ed and Collingwood. It must feel good to finish top four on the ladder and still be able to draft the best kids in the draft mills and henney as afl Christmas presents keeping the swans from not bottoming out.

 

[Ben Drever]

Moral of the story:
Beware of giants giving you magic beans.
Hint: don't take the beans unless you want to play NEAFL.

Or want to be traded interstate for first round picks in 2-3 years time after your stint in the NEAFL

 

[coniglio_number1]

Does anyone realise that players choose wether or not they want to be in the academy, no one is forcing them.

 

[Tedeski]

Heath shaw is a big time d#ug head introducing it to younger players being a bad influence. Collingwood had to trade him if you had any idea. You must have a Sad life hey always hating Ed and Collingwood. It must feel good to finish top four on the ladder and still be able to draft the best kids in the draft mills and henney as afl Christmas presents keeping the swans from not bottoming out.

Thanks for making me realise why the Tigers & other Vic teams have failed to make finals or even win them.
I had no idea it was because of the Academies. I have thought all along it was just because you eat your own & never allow a good culture to grow from top to bottom.
Apologies!
I'll never look at Heeney & Mills in the same way again.
How dare these two fellows prevent your club from being a successful.

 

[Bltiger]

Thanks for making me realise why the Tigers & other Vic teams have failed to make finals or even win them.
I had no idea it was because of the Academies. I have thought all along it was just because you eat your own & never allow a good culture to grow from top to bottom.
Apologies!
I'll never look at Heeney & Mills in the same way again.
How dare these two fellows prevent your club from being a successful.

I didn't mention anything about academy players being a reason to win finals so keep making up stuff to suit your negative Victoria/collingwood/Ed and now Richmond agenda that looks silly. You really seem to whinge about everything making things up. I love living in Nsw by the way and I'm not a biased supporter like your self so good luck to mills and henney who are gun's