The Academies - 2016

[Colonial]

Heeney was bid on with pick 2 by Melbourne in 2014, but it was not under the latest rules. Sydney only gave up pick 18 for him.

Mills was bid on with pick 3 by Melbourne in 2015, not pick 2. Sydney did not have pick 18.

So quite frankly I have no idea who or what you're talking about with the above and I'm not sure you do either. Quality contribution.

The usual scaremongers without the facts

 

[isamedthegiants]

The 20% discount means they get 1 of the players for free.

I would love an extra top 30 pick.

Surely when a zone has better selections than WA things need to change.

This will be the 2nd year in row that NSW has had more top 20 picks than WA.

Well that sounds like complacency and ineptitude among WAFL coaches and development.

How is that the Giants fault?

 

[isamedthegiants]

Well how many academy players have you had so far?

You are complaining because you migh have to wait another ten years for an academy player after having heaps of them handed to you already?

How often do you think Victorian clubs get father sons?

Do you think it's a fair competition when one club is able to pick 2 or 3 of the best kids before everyone else?

I think we've had 3 "academy" players so far, the ones we took last year.

We have Williams and Finlayson and Steele who were zone selections but I'm not sure if they were "academy" players, could be wrong though.

 

[Ads734]

A

Have just examined the "real life" academy drafting example for Isaac Heeney.

Sydney gave up picks 18,37 and 38 for a player that Melbourne was going to take at pick 2.

The AFL say this was a fair outcome.

How is this fair for Melbourne who missed out on draft pick number two? There is no compensation for Melbourne other than the fact that their draft pick above 18 has moved forward one slot and their draft pick above 38 has moved forward two slots.

Assuming Sydney and GWS are both going to be top 6 clubs for the forseeable future, what is stopping them using their draft picks 16,32 and 48 to take the guns from their academy every year that such a gun is available?

The other unfairness is that having young guns in your academy gives you inside information when it comes to draft time. A gun can be identified as early as 15 but his subsequent performance can be "managed" so he appears to be not a gun to other clubs.

If you think this sort of thing does not happen then look into how Jimmy Bartel and Joel Selwood ended up at their preferred club come draft time.

I am absolutely with E Maguire on this topic

ctually the AFL wasn't happy with it so they changed the whole bidding system but let's not let facts get in the way...

 

[bungwahl]

Swans players drafted from the academy since 2010:

Isaac Heeney
Callum Mills

Brandon Jack
Lloyd Perris
Sam Naismith
Dan Robinson
Jack Hiscox
Abaina Davis
Jordan Foote

Relax, the guns are few and far between.

 

[isamedthegiants]

Swans players drafted from the academy since 2010:

Isaac Heeney
Callum Mills

Brandon Jack
Lloyd Perris
Sam Naismith
Dan Robinson
Jack Hiscox
Abaina Davis
Jordan Foote

Relax, the guns are few and far between.

Jeez those least three names sound made up. Do they even exist?

 

[Andre the Giant]

This is eerily similar to the CoLA debate.

Seems like just yesterday that Swans fans were trying to justify why Buddy needed an extra 100k a year to account for differences in the cost of living.

The similar part is that as with Brisbane losing their allowance and Sydney having cola amended the rumbling started with Eddie McGuire.

Now that he has had changes there he really feels like he can engineer whatever he wants and you know what with the power he has in the media and the muppets he has working for him masquerading as AFL employees he probably does.

This will go through but it won't change the Giants from eventually winning a flag and from Collingwood being shit.

 

[Suma Magic]

The similar part is that as with Brisbane losing their allowance and Sydney having cola amended the rumbling started with Eddie McGuire.

Now that he has had changes there he really feels like he can engineer whatever he wants and you know what with the power he has in the media and the muppets he has working for him masquerading as AFL employees he probably does.

This will go through but it won't change the Giants from eventually winning a flag and from Collingwood being shit.

Maybe people want it changed because it's not a suitable policy.

The world isn't out to get you Giants fans.

 

[bird_man]

I think we've had 3 "academy" players so far, the ones we took last year.

We have Williams and Finlayson and Steele who were zone selections but I'm not sure if they were "academy" players, could be wrong though.

Jack Steel was from the Canberra Academy. Another academy in an already strong AFL region.

 

[isamedthegiants]

Jack Steel was from the Canberra Academy. Another academy in an already strong AFL region.

Name me a combined Canberra team from the last 50 years.

 

[dlanod]

Jack Steel was from the Canberra Academy. Another academy in an already strong AFL region.

Feel free to list the players drafted over the last 10 years from this allegedly strong Canberra AFL region prior to the GWS academy.

 

[bird_man]

The similar part is that as with Brisbane losing their allowance and Sydney having cola amended the rumbling started with Eddie McGuire.

Now that he has had changes there he really feels like he can engineer whatever he wants and you know what with the power he has in the media and the muppets he has working for him masquerading as AFL employees he probably does.

This will go through but it won't change the Giants from eventually winning a flag and from Collingwood being shit.

As I said earlier, I haven't even heard McGuires comments. It's not about making GWS shit. They have a remarkably strong list which I think is a good thing if we want to see them succeed in Western Sydney.

This is about having an even completion. That is what the AFL have worked hard for over a few decades now. At the moment the system is not an even playing field.

I want to see the Giants win a flag, so it has nothing to do with seeing the demise of Western Sydney. Unfortunately your fans have got so used to hand outs now that they think they should just be entitled to them

 

[Andre the Giant]

Maybe people want it changed because it's not a suitable policy.

The world isn't out to get you Giants fans.

Well mate with due respect if you were in Melbourne right now you would feel that. This stuff is everywhere it is quite unbelievable. Never seen such a campaign.

 

[isamedthegiants]

As I said earlier, I haven't even heard McGuires comments. It's not about making GWS shit. They have a remarkably strong list which I think is a good thing if we want to see them succeed in Western Sydney.

This is about having an even completion. That is what the AFL have worked hard for over a few decades now. At the moment the system is not an even playing field.

I want to see the Giants win a flag, so it has nothing to do with seeing the demise of Western Sydney. Unfortunately your fans have got so used to hand outs now that they think they should just be entitled to them

This isn't a handout. It is an area that we out time, money and resources into to develop kids.

Do you know the meaning of the word "handout?"

 

[Andre the Giant]

As I said earlier, I haven't even heard McGuires comments. It's not about making GWS shit. They have a remarkably strong list which I think is a good thing if we want to see them succeed in Western Sydney.

This is about having an even completion. That is what the AFL have worked hard for over a few decades now. At the moment the system is not an even playing field.

I want to see the Giants win a flag, so it has nothing to do with seeing the demise of Western Sydney. Unfortunately your fans have got so used to hand outs now that they think they should just be entitled to them

That is incorrect and fwiw your fans have been quite used to hands outs also in relation to draft picks and grants from the AFL.

Don't you think this is co-incidental that it all comes like a hurricane just after a good win?

If we saw this kind of paranoia and fear mongering in any other field of life we would laugh at it. This is like McCarthyism!

 

[Roylion]

Heeney was bid on with pick 2 by Melbourne in 2014, but it was not under the latest rules. Sydney only gave up pick 18 for him.

Mills was bid on with pick 3 by Melbourne in 2015, not pick 2. Sydney did not have pick 18.

So quite frankly I have no idea who or what you're talking about with the above and I'm not sure you do either. Quality contribution.

In fact Melbourne's bid on Mills was matched by Sydney giving up picks 33, 36, 37 and 43. Melbourne then selected Clayton Oliver with that same pick, which had moved to #4. Sydney earlier had traded their earlier picks out for multiple later picks. This also advantaged other non-academy clubs.

 

[Roylion]

If you get a 20% discount on 5 players, it is the same as buy 4 get 1 free. I was talking about the GWS who as you said have 5 top 30 players.

But GWS won't get those five Top 30 players.

I would love to get 14 pick upgrade on my second rounder for change.

Brisbane gave up two second rounders for that upgrade. Moving all clubs later than this up two places. In fact if you factor in all the academy selections, the latter picks roughly third round onwards) of non-academy clubs were improved by up to nine places.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Brisbane gave up two second rounders for that upgrade. Moving all clubs later than this up two places. In fact if you factor in all the academy selections, the latter picks roughly third round onwards) of non-academy clubs were improved by up to nine places.

But they have taken 9 players from the draft pool. The strength of a team is only relative to the other teams in the competition.

 

[dlanod]

But they have taken 9 players from the draft pool. The strength of a team is only relative to the other teams in the competition.

But would those nine players have been in the draft pool in the first place? Round and round we go...

 

[Andre the Giant]

But they have taken 9 players from the draft pool. The strength of a team is only relative to the other teams in the competition.

What are your thoughts about Ross Lyon meeting with a contracted player Cam McCarthy and offering him a grandfather deal to induce him to join the Dockers??

The strength of our list is in keeping contracted players not having them tampered with and induced to leave the club.

Where does your code of ethics sit there?

 

[liz]

But they have taken 9 players from the draft pool. The strength of a team is only relative to the other teams in the competition.

Players who wouldn't even have been in the draft pool to start with had it not been for the academies.

 

[Suma Magic]

Well mate with due respect if you were in Melbourne right now you would feel that. This stuff is everywhere it is quite unbelievable. Never seen such a campaign.

With due respect that's how politics is played out and policy change is driven.

 

[go_the_dockers]

But would those nine players have been in the draft pool in the first place? Round and round we go...

Players who wouldn't even have been in the draft pool to start with had it not been for the academies.

All I want is an even comp. Having the academies make the comp uneven and weakens the draft.

What are your thoughts about Ross Lyon meeting with a contracted player Cam McCarthy and offering him a grandfather deal to induce him to join the Dockers??

The strength of our list is in keeping contracted players not having them tampered with and induced to leave the club.

Where does your code of ethics sit there?

I don't care if he meets with him after McCarthy had nominated us during trade week.

 

[1892]

I don't get the furore over the GWS Academy. It's not as if GWS have those players locked in already.

There's a bidding system. GWS won't get all that talent, if reports that there are up to five players from there zone that could go in the Top 30 are correct. If GWS want talent from their zone, they'll have to trade for picks to secure that talent. That then allows other clubs to improve their own position in the draft and therefore access to better kids, some of whom will be that very talent in GWS' zone.

It's the other clubs that will decide the draft market value of any talent in GWS's zone.

Trading for picks isn't an issue for GWS due to the overly generous start up concessions and the cycle of trading players for picks or picks for future picks could continue for years without effecting their onfield performance.

Going into this years draft GWS currently hold:

1st round GWS
1st round Carlton
1st round Collingwood
2nd round GWS
2nd round Adelaide
3rd round GWS
4th round GWS​

Hypothetical finishing positions Carlton 16th, Collingwood 15th, GWS 4th, Adelaide 6th gives GWS 6592 points before any trading.

The values given by go_the_dockers after discount is 6095 points, so without even going beyond the 2nd round they could select all 7 players and have the equivalent of about pick 36 left over. If you take into account the points from their redundant 3rd and 4th round picks it becomes the equivalent of about pick 24.

Possible 2017 picks assuming GWS trade out what isn't needed this year for equivalent 2017 picks:

1st round GWS
1st round Fremantle (McCarthy)
2nd round GWS
2nd round pick (left over 2016)
3rd round pick GWS
3rd round pick (left over 2016)
4th round pick GWS
4th round pick (left over 2016)​

With only the above picks they'd hold between 4000-6000 points going into 2017. Should Fremantle bounce back to 8th and GWS finish 4th they'd hold the about the same number of points as the 17th placed club (~4000 points). I can't see GWS having the list space to recruit 7 kids in 2016, so it's safe to assume they'll hold an additional 1000 points entering 2017 (between 5000-7000).

 

[dlanod]

All I want is an even comp. Having the academies make the comp uneven and weakens the draft.

Having advantages like easy third party payments and a rich vein of local talent to recruit from makes the comp uneven. I really wish Eddie would get his megaphone out and focus on those as well so all those chasing his tail would check that out.