The Academies - 2016

[Suma Magic]

Please...it is bullying, manipulation, agitation and pressure to achieve self-interest.

If you place a piece of excrement in a pretty box and wrap it up with a bow it's still shit.

Equitable policy positions are in the interest of the entire league. Yes it may be in the interests of 14 clubs in particular, but that's not a reason to cease advocacy.

 

[bird_man]

And the quickest way to turn off the AFL money tap is for us to be successful, because nothing like success generates revenue in Sydney.

For us to achieve some sort of success we need access to good young kids, like the ones in the Riverina.

So, thank you AFL. We'll no longer take your money, and we'll keep the Riverina.

There it is, it has nothing to do with building the game in the Riverina and everything to do with making sure GWS are a powerhouse.

We've been making sure this will happen for 5 or so years now, it has to stop eventually.

 

[Suma Magic]

Regarding the method of advocacy (media based):

This public campaign is needed due to the Commission's reluctance to reduce concessions if they can avoid it. Public pressure needs to be built to catalyse change.

 

[isamedthegiants]

There it is, it has nothing to do with building the game in the Riverina and everything to do with making sure GWS are a powerhouse.

We've been making sure this will happen for 5 or so years now, it has to stop eventually.

Big leap from "some sort of success" to "powerhouse" isn't it?

And, apart from Zac Williams who we rookie listed, how many of our Riverina boys have even played a game yet?

 

[Andre the Giant]

Callan Ward, Tom scully,his father and co poached by gws while talking about poached.

Bit different with an established club in AFL heartland (you guys love using that term) and a fledgling club being set up.

Anyway mate you support Richmond...shouldn't you be looking for a rock to hide under??

 

[Bltiger]

There it is, it has nothing to do with building the game in the Riverina and everything to do with making sure GWS are a powerhouse.

We've been making sure this will happen for 5 or so years now, it has to stop eventually.

They won't be happy until the entire list is all first round draft picks as it means more than winning a flag on good fair merits.

 

[Bltiger]

Bit different with an established club in AFL heartland (you guys love using that term) and a fledgling club being set up.

Anyway mate you support Richmond...shouldn't you be looking for a rock to hide under??

Poaching is poaching mate so keep making excuses to suit your self. Na I sit on my rock in Nsw happy as Larry little man but thanks for your terrible effort as a cheap shot insult.

 

[Andre the Giant]

N

Poaching is poaching mate so keep making excuses to suit your self. Na I sit on my rock in Nsw happy as Larry little man but thanks for your terrible effort as a cheap shot insult.

I'm just curious where you think Richmond is right now big man, you have a list built for the now and you won't even make the finals. Looks like the 8th rebuild since 2000. The Riverina won't help that situation. God won't help it

 

[bird_man]

I don't think anyone minds the Isaac Heeney scenario of getting young kids from other sports in area's like North Shore Sydney.

Everyone has a problem with Albury and the Riverina being in a zone, it's absolutely ridiculous.


As for GWS fostering young talent, it would be great if it was true. Jacob Hopper had never been to GWS training center till just before the draft, he had spoken to them once during the year. Not exactly an "academy" is it.


The GWS Zone lines should be changed to around 50-100km's north of the Barrassi line, so (no further south than Canberra or Griffith).

I also think there should be an age limit on the inclusion of the player in the academies. 15 years old sounds about right, it actually forces GWS to actively recruit and scout young players rather than just umbrella anyone in a rep side falling in their zone area's.


It's definitely the most broken "system" I can remember in quite a while.

Terrific post.

 

[Tedeski]

I didn't mention anything about academy players being a reason to win finals so keep making up stuff to suit your negative Victoria/collingwood/Ed and now Richmond agenda that looks silly. You really seem to whinge about everything making things up. I love living in Nsw by the way and I'm not a biased supporter like your self so good luck to mills and henney who are gun's

Mmmmm!
New on here hey?
Let's see if I can work out your previous username!

 

[Bltiger]

I'm just curious where you think Richmond is right now big man, you have a list built for the now and you won't even make the finals. Looks like the 8th rebuild since 2000. The Riverina won't help that situation. God won't help it

Our list is terrible and we will finish in the bottom six as we suck but that's ok as it's only a game. But time the afl made the draft fair so clubs can rebuild by having the opportunity to draft top end talent. Maybe you should stop being a little boy by attacking everyone who has a different opinion. But you make me laugh today so thanks

 

[Bltiger]

Mmmmm!
New on here hey?
Let's see if I can work out your previous username!

Umm ok you are strange. You do realise people read bigfooty but don't have accounts Yeh.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Our list is terrible and we will finish in the bottom six as we suck but that's ok as it's only a game. But time the afl made the draft fair so clubs can rebuild by having the opportunity to draft top end talent. Maybe you should get stop being a little boy than attack everyone who has a different opinion. But you make me laugh today so thanks

Well I'm glad I could take that role from the Richmond FC at least for one day!

 

[Tedeski]

Umm ok you are strange. You do realise people read bigfooty but don't have accounts Yeh.

Well then I'm glad you finally came on board!

 

[dlanod]

Broken record always whinging about Ed and Collingwood in many thread's. Ed must of hooked up with your wife's to have such a sookie obsession with him. Thanks for a good laugh boy's

So what's your position on the broken record whinging about academies? I heard Hopper stole Buckley's love, hence why Eddie is so upset.

 

[1892]

I'm well aware but you are making light of it.

This has been very carefully crafted and is


You see one of the problems we have but you are too obtuse to see is that over 50% of the draft pool is from Victoria. Being a Victorian club Collingwood is in a very strong position even though your amazing recruitment team seems fixated with taking goats from Sth Australia.

The issue we are presented with is the strong go home factor which has already claimed a number of our top selections. It certainly doesn't help our cause to have young talents like Adams and Treloar poached by established clubs like Collingwood, a club I might add that has done very well recently with Father-Son selections that they had 1st dibs on and NSW and Intl rookie pick ups. I understand Collingwood will look to take another F/S this year in young Daicos.

Perhaps if you are going to offer patronising diatribes about other clubs you should look at your own club first. Perhaps if you did look at your own club first you may be traveling a bit better than you are now or is that all our fault as well??

Where do WA and SA clubs sit with over 50% of the pool being from Victoria and now more players coming out of NSW than those states? Sure every club loses the odd player for go home reasons, but more interstate players stay rather than leave clubs.

Money and huge deals have also been a factor in players leaving, clubs not having access to top end talent during the GC and GWS start up concessions is a factor here. Fair value was paid for both Adams and Treloar and GWS are no worse off onfield. We've had Beams and Wellingham leave for their home states in recent years, so Victorian clubs aren't immune.

Recent father sons, Darcy Moore was 2014 and we paid pick 9, which was slight unders. Our only other father son in the last 10 years was Jaxson Barham (2007). The only successes in the past 20 years have been Cloke and Shaw.

We never had 1st dibs on NSW and International rookies, Witts, Reed, Young, McNarama were available to all clubs to sign and reap priority draft access. They chose to sign with Collingwood as Walker did Adelaide. Cox is a little different, all clubs were able to attend the US camp, however the AFL rewarded clubs who attended and limited the ability to sign recruits to those clubs.

Daicos and Brown are both rated late draft to rookie selections at this stage, although if they keep performing a higher bid in the middle rounds is likely. Further and inline with the arguments of academy fans just because they are available as father sons doesn't mean we will select them. We overlooked Kelly and Stewart.

My view isn't based solely on my club, but the competition in general. Zoning didn't work the first time around and the best way to gauge to the future is to consider past events. For a healthy competition we need all clubs contending and being a legitimate chance for a flag every 5 to 10 years not the same 3 or 4 clubs over and over. Zoning the first time around seen the latter.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Broken record always whinging about Ed and Collingwood in many thread's. Ed must of hooked up with your wife's to have such a sookie obsession with him. Thanks for a good laugh boy's

Reported for abuse of apostrophes.

 

[dlanod]

I never mentioned that the TAC cup was a Victorian comp.

Wait, what?

Also a lot of the academy kids play and develop their game in Victorian competitions or are existing talents signed just 12 months before drafting.

So what are you referring to if not the TAC Cup?

Victoria based club or late signings:

2015

Hopper - Nth Ballarat
Kennedy - signed late 2014 and had been a junior talent for years​

2016

Setterfield - Sandringham
Marshall - Murray Bushrangers
Mutch - Bendigo
Lynch - Murray Bushrangers
Sporule - Murray Bushrangers​

​

Seems awfully like you're referring to the TAC Cup?

Others:

2015

Himmelberg - Riverina
Flynn - Riverina
​

2016

Macreadie - Riverina
Perryman - Riverina​

Seems to be fairly selective picking there. Here, let me help you.

2015 others:

Harry BRILL
Brandon CLARK
Jock CORNELL
Sam FISHER
Lachlan FLAGG
Nelson FOLEY
Logan GRAY
Tom HIGHMORE
Lyndon HUPFELD
Jack IRVINE
Alex JOHNSTON
Matthew KLEMKE
Billy LAMBERT
Luke McKAY
Lachlan MOORE
William MUIR
Connor OWEN-AUBURN
Tom POWELL
Donald ROBERTS

2016 others:

Jarrod BRANDER
Matt NEAGLE
Connor BYRNE
Alex PAECH
Fletcher CARROLL
Brandon CLARK
Jack POWELL
Isaac CUMMING
Tom RAGENOVICH
Josh DOWSE
Luke REDFERN
Sam FISHER
Nathan RICHARDS
Ryan GARTHWAITE
Donald ROBERTS
Logan GRAY
Joshua HANLON
Luke SHANNON
Jack IRVINE
Nicholas SHIPLEY
Ethan SLATER
Derek SMITH
Mitch MAGUIRE
Charlie SPARGO
Lucas MELINE
Brady MORTON
Jacob TURNER
Matthew VARDENEGA
Brendan MYERS
Jayden WHITE

Non-comprehensive list by the way.

So, lots, hey?

 

[dlanod]

There it is, it has nothing to do with building the game in the Riverina and everything to do with making sure GWS are a powerhouse.

We've been making sure this will happen for 5 or so years now, it has to stop eventually.

After all we all know isamedthegiants is the noted AFL and GWS strategician, with his views speaking for all the top brass. Top brass, I say!

 

[dlanod]

You are pretty perthectic being a mod. You have serious issues with Ed, Collingwood and Victoria from reading your cry wolf posts. Talking about Ed and Collingwood is a waste of stalker jealousy time and it gets you know where while people laugh at your post's. My opinion gws have taken advantage of the rules but enough is enough as the Riverina area boy's should be all chucked in the Ais academy. If any club needs a couple of free picks/kids handed to them from the afl it's team's like Brisbane etc and not a team with thirty first round draft picks.

Wow.

I enjoy pointing out the hypocrisy of people who complain about "advantages" of the northern clubs in the interests of an "even competition", while ignoring the inherent advantages that their own clubs enjoy.

Apparently I touched a nerve somewhere?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Mills' grandfather played WAFL and represented Western Australia in the 1960's. He has AFL in his blood. So, by you're logic - he should have been exempt from the academy programmes because he would always have an affinity for the game...Probably not the best example for you to use...

Heeney...He is one of those freaks that excels at all sports....68 goals in 12 games of soccer, 5 tries in a Rugby League Grand Final, a cricket average of over 200 whilst playing against older age groups....Heeney is a freak. And a bloody rare diamond. The Swans got lucky they found him and developed him. A great result of the academy working, but a great example of luck, also.




Numbers speak for themselves. 2 top 20 draft picks in 15 years until 20015 when we drafted 3 kids from the region. You could say that the very existence of the academy has breathed life back into the region and whipped up some lost passion for the code.



To quote Eddie Murphy..."But what have you done for me lately!?"

2 top 20 draftees in recent history. Poor, poor, poor.



So half the Riverina is a 4 hour round trip, how far is the other half? 7-8 hour round trip? Keep that's a leisurely drive for a game of football, isn't it...???



Persistent isn't the word beginning with P that I would choose to describe you.



Is that your idea of what an Academy should be or the guidelines from the AFL? Because that sounds like an Auskick programme, not an elite way of developing teenagers and nurturing their skills and giving them something to work towards if they are good enough.

It's the Marketing Departments job to increase the appeal of the game.




I refer you to the AFL's own Annual report from 2005.

View attachment 243331




A breeding ground for South Melbourne? Jeez they won how many flags pulling all those legends from the area? 7? 8? 15? How many flags did they win on the backs of the Riverina kids?



No, I want the Riverina as it benefits all clubs. If there are 5 stars this year, do you honestly think we can take them all? We've still got to decrease our list size, 2 of. The kids we developed will go to other clubs. Maybe one will end up at Tullamarine.

Hopefully he is only passing through and going to a decent club somewhere else in Melbourne, but the poor bigger might just have to stay.

Jesus, this is just a cluster**** of strawmen and ad hominems thrown together with reckless abandon. I don't even know where to begin.

But seriously, can we just address the elephant in the room and can you explain why the Riverina is seemingly the only area in Australia of which there is grave concern for its inability to produce talent at a parity rate with the rest of the country? Considering the north-west quarter of Victoria and virtually half of Tasmania have been in the doldrums for 20 years, I find the 'omg 2 in 20' crap to be purely melodramatic bullshit.

And if we're really so hung up on the sheer crisis that developed from the Riverina not seeing any of their boys go in the top 20, there are dozens of better ways the AFL (not one club, the AFL) can manage that region without it existing solely for the benefit of one club. And it does, don't give that shit of "yeah but you'll get our scraps".

I mean, is it so hard to believe that maybe the kids were just shit for ten years?

Somebody made a good point earlier; Hopper was barely with the academy at all. Begs the question, are you guys actually developing them or just snapping them up when the time comes?

Of course, the real answer is that GWS doesn't want to give up the Riverina because it's a huge boost for the club on the draft table. Fair enough, you needed it at one point. But now GWS is well and truly established, I think you can afford to hand it back in the near future.

 

[Hollow Knight]

FWIW I am fine with the criticism of GWS's actual record of identification and development of players in the GWS region.

I am highly, highly sceptical that the heartland clubs will stop there though. This is just phase one. Previous comments prior to the Riverina issue show that there is an ideological opposition to the academies.

I am all for a debate about inequities in the system. Because the frontier clubs have plenty to say there. The problem is that the heartland clubs refuse to acknowledge the systemic and intrinsic advantages they enjoy. This stuff rarely ever gets mentioned in the debate. The fawning sycophants in the media also lack the integrity to call out the heartland powerhouse clubs who thinly veil their criticism of academies behind the pretence of "caring about equality in the system". It's pure self interest... and only a few journos like Caro have the courage to call them out on it.

 

[MickyG]

I don't think anyone minds the Isaac Heeney scenario of getting young kids from other sports in area's like North Shore Sydney.

Everyone has a problem with Albury and the Riverina being in a zone, it's absolutely ridiculous.


As for GWS fostering young talent, it would be great if it was true. Jacob Hopper had never been to GWS training center till just before the draft, he had spoken to them once during the year. Not exactly an "academy" is it.


The GWS Zone lines should be changed to around 50-100km's north of the Barrassi line, so (no further south than Canberra or Griffith).

I also think there should be an age limit on the inclusion of the player in the academies. 15 years old sounds about right, it actually forces GWS to actively recruit and scout young players rather than just umbrella anyone in a rep side falling in their zone area's.


It's definitely the most broken "system" I can remember in quite a while.

I would say AFL junior development in NSW and Qld prior to the Academies was very broken - evidence being the number of AFL players from NSW and Qld.

 

[Suma Magic]

Just because there are inequities elsewhere doesn't mean that this particular issue can't be discussed.

The constant deflection of "but there are inequities elsewhere" suggests that Academy sympathisers don't want to address the issues at hand.

8 discounted/priority top 30 picks in two years - it's too much and I've yet to see a rational justification that it isn't inequitable.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Jesus, this is just a cluster**** of strawmen and ad hominems thrown together with reckless abandon. I don't even know where to begin.

But seriously, can we just address the elephant in the room and can you explain why the Riverina is seemingly the only area in Australia of which there is grave concern for its inability to produce talent at a parity rate with the rest of the country? Considering the north-west quarter of Victoria and virtually half of Tasmania have been in the doldrums for 20 years, I find the 'omg 2 in 20' crap to be purely melodramatic bullshit.

And if we're really so hung up on the sheer crisis that developed from the Riverina not seeing any of their boys go in the top 20, there are dozens of better ways the AFL (not one club, the AFL) can manage that region without it existing solely for the benefit of one club. And it does, don't give that shit of "yeah but you'll get our scraps".

I mean, is it so hard to believe that maybe the kids were just shit for ten years?

Somebody made a good point earlier; Hopper was barely with the academy at all. Begs the question, are you guys actually developing them or just snapping them up when the time comes?

Of course, the real answer is that GWS doesn't want to give up the Riverina because it's a huge boost for the club on the draft table. Fair enough, you needed it at one point. But now GWS is well and truly established, I think you can afford to hand it back in the near future.

RE Hopper http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/video/2015-10-16/pm-capital-academy-prospects-hopper

For anybody that questions what GWS is doing with the Academy I think this video is a slam dunk. For people to suggest Hopper had limited contact and benefit from the Academy is just balls.

When the AFL ran programs in the Riverina they never had any traction. There was no end game for any of the kids or their families and hence there was little benefit. The Giants have created a real pathway and the kids are responding to this.

Instead of celebrating this growth the bitterness from the original draft allocations is allowing jealousy and resentment potentially put a slow on this success story.

First you hated us because we were plastic, then you wanted us kicked out because we couldn't win a game or get a crowd now we need to be punished for potentially being too good.

And we haven't even qualified for a final yet...