Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[boltsbabyblues]

What else should we trust then ??

For the record, this is the first time in the club's history that we have had any semblance of process in relation to list management, drafting & trading.

**** these dogs........don't ever explain ourselves to them. They are inconsequential. We are Carlton. Who cares what these serfs think?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Well it looks like it has. They were fairly garbage even up to your game. Aren’t they 7 from 9 since?

Their early poor form against Freo, dogs, pies, hawks, us and you is what’s cost them so far. They’ve turned a corner since the carlton game though.

Correct

 

[Suma Magic]

I think when you considering that Gibbs was traded out mid-contract and Docherty is back next year, it's going to be pretty much impossible to qualify for a priority pick.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Turned the corner ? Haven't won a finals match for over 5000 days . Any tom, dick, or harry could have built a list to achieve mediocrity. This is what Carlton don't want, hence the full rebuild. Some people will get it some day

Wasn't there an article a year or two back with how Richmond built their list just to make finals, looks like it paid off for them.

Being competitive and trying to win is better than instilling a losing culture that will rot the club internally.

 

[dazbroncos]

Yep, just like Selwood's trip last week, only Howe doesn't play for Geelong.

well for one....

the bitterness is strong in this one.
Secondly, a fracture that wipes out his season vs getting up and playing on.

But as usual Hawks fans cant seem to see past the blurry blue and white in their eyes when Selwood gets mentioned.

Too funny.

GO Catters

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Found this pretty amazing, thought there would be teams from back in the early days of the league that did this.

Cool stat, but it’s not really that relevant. You win games by scoring more than your opponent, not scoring 100 points. Melbourne are the only team going at that rate at the minute and they aren’t much chop IMO.

Just another way to bash Carlton really.

 

[LordLucifer]

I think when you considering that Gibbs was traded out mid-contract and Docherty is back next year, it's going to be pretty much impossible to qualify for a priority pick.

What ???

 

[Suma Magic]

What ???

Blues chose to trade a quality mid for draft picks last year. The downside is poor performance this year, the upside is an improved list in a couple of years.

They get back an AA player next year. They also have 3 picks in the first 25 that provides them sufficient currency to trade for established players if they want to. They also have a lot of young high draft picks on their list. Their scope for improvement next year and beyond is massive.

I don't think you could make a case that the AFL should intervene, and advantage Carlton to the disadvantage of all other clubs. Priority picks are a zero sum game, I don't think the blues' hopes are so bad that the AFL needs to tax other clubs to benefit the blues.

 

[cfc4life]

Blues chose to trade a quality mid for draft picks last year. The downside is poor performance this year, the upside is an improved list in a couple of years.

They get back an AA player next year. They also have 3 picks in the first 25 that provides them sufficient currency to trade for established players if they want to. They also have a lot of young high draft picks on their list. Their scope for improvement next year and beyond is massive.

I don't think you could make a case that the AFL should intervene, and advantage Carlton to the disadvantage of all other clubs. Priority picks are a zero sum game, I don't think the blues' hopes are so bad that the AFL needs to tax other clubs to benefit the blues.

Gibbs wanted out, Adelaide had no one they wanted to give up. How is this Carlton's fault?

 

[Fadge]

We're in a very dour time right now, there's no escaping that. However I think that we are honestly the first team except maybe Melbourne circa 2013 that has to deal with a complete rebuild. Hawks/Geelong weren't affected by the compromised drafts when they rebuilt in the mid 2000s. It's the hardest it's ever been to build a list, with such a dilution of talent across the league and a lack of real equalisation thanks to a joke of a free agency system.

Access to the highest draft picks is at best the third most important element when building a list.

The most important thing is identifying your needs and recruiting to those needs. I was at a Sportsman's night with a well known footballing identity on Friday night, and he said the best List Managers ignore the general consensus and select their recruits based on their own homework and needs. The problem with a majority of List Managers is that they are scared to veer away from the popular opinion for fear of making a mistake, and if you pick a Tambling or Gumbleton and they're a bust, well at least you can say that every other club would have selected them with your pick. Apart from playing for Sydney, what do Dane Rampe, Heath Grundy, Jake Lloyd and Nick Smith have in common? (the answer is they all came off Sydney's Rookie List).

The second most important element is the ability to develop your talent. A high draft pick is only as good as the environment into which he is drafted. Who is to say that if Tambling was drafted to another club (more successful at the time) as an 18 year old, he wouldn't have played 300 games and had a Charlie around his neck? If Rampe, Grundy, Lloyd and/or Smith hadn't have been recruited by Sydney, would we have heard of any of them?

I agree Free Agency is difficult for lesser clubs, but get the above two right and therefore get the results on the board, and you'll become an attractive destination club.

 

[Suma Magic]

Gibbs wanted out, Adelaide had no one they wanted to give up. How is this Carlton's fault?

It's not your fault.

But it partly explains why you've been so poor this year. Which is a factor when considering suitability for a priority pick.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What ???

The factors considered for a PP include

- recent finals appearances and premiership - no blockers there
- premiership points, weighted towards recent years - 28, 24, 4*, not diabolical until this year
- percentage, weighted towards recent years - 79, 78, 60*, not great
- injuries - top of the injury ladder

If there's a repeat of 2018 next year they might qualify. Until then, carry on with the rebuild.

 

[LordLucifer]

Gibbs wanted out, Adelaide had no one they wanted to give up. How is this Carlton's fault?

Never let the facts get in the way ……….

 

[Worm4]

Wasn't there an article a year or two back with how Richmond built their list just to make finals, looks like it paid off for them.

Being competitive and trying to win is better than instilling a losing culture that will rot the club internally.

There's culture, and then there's Essendon.

 

[Suma Magic]

If the Blues were this bad again next year then I'd think they should qualify for an end of first round compo pick.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

During 2018 we have had 32 players on our list impacted by injuries. The graphic below is up to date to last week, Liam Jones and Zac Fisher have been added this week. We will maybe have 5 or 6 listed players in our seconds team this week. I think 13 of 18 games this year we have had in game injuries of 1 or more players. For a team that was already picked by most as a bottom four prospect for 2018 this type of carnage is maybe at the very least some of the reason for the poor showing this year.

From: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2018-blue-healers-medical-room.1185863/page-68#post-56834307

And you know who to thank!

 

[Forward Press]

If the Blues were this bad again next year then I'd think they should qualify for an end of first round compo pick.

Even at the end of this year I wouldn't be opposed to an end of first round pick.

 

[Suma Magic]

Even at the end of this year I wouldn't be opposed to an end of first round pick.

Fair enough. I don't think that their situation is so dire that other clubs should be disadvantaged to help them above and beyond normal draft equalisation measures.

 

[Forward Press]

Fair enough. I don't think that their situation is so dire that other clubs should be disadvantaged to help them above and beyond normal draft equalisation measures.

After free agency it would be a pick 20ish and as history has shown clubs have often traded it for solid experienced players - that would really help Carlton a lot right now as they are bereft of mature talent.

Up to the AFL I suppose but I personally don't mind.

 

[Kram]

Even at the end of this year I wouldn't be opposed to an end of first round pick.

I'd give it to them on the proviso that they sack that Silvagni peanut.

 

[Jeremias]

I'd give it to them on the proviso that they sack that Silvagni peanut.

No deal.

 

[Chunky09]

Surely they should just stick to recruiting gws players

 

[TeeJay Blue]

They say injuries mean nothing but for a club like ours in the current position it is in, losing players means an awful lot. This club is trying it's best to not only build a strong squad, but the depth to cover it as well.

- Only 2 players are so far looking to participate in every AFL match this season (Patrick Cripps and Sam Petrevski-Seton).
- Give or take the 3 suspensions (Ed Curnow, Dale Thomas and Jed Lamb), an average of 11 players were unable to be selected on a weekly basis. That's a quarter of the list.
- There have been around 39 instances of a player succumbing to injury during a match (13 of them from the VFL).
- Carlton lead the injury table with 185 games missed from injured players. A guaranteed 49 over the next five weeks takes the total to an alarming 234. It can only go up from there.
- 5 of the seven players out for the rest of the season are known to play in the backline (Sam Docherty, Liam Jones, Lachie Plowman, Alex Silvagni and Tom Williamson). Adding to that, Ciaran Byrne, Harrison Macreadie, Caleb Marchbank and Jesse Glass-McCasker have all missed huge chunks of the year. Add all the games these lot have missed, that's just about equal to 115. Almost half of the minimum total (234).
- This has led to approximately 17 players rotating through defense.
- 6 instances when a player has re-aggravated the same injury they were coming off from (Matthew Kennedy - ankle, Matthew Kreuzer - groin, Marc Murphy - plantar fascia, Tom Williamson - back, Alex Silvagni - Achilles and Harrison Macreadie - Hamstring). This supported by the suspended fine of $20,000 handed down to the club after they failed to diagnose Cameron Polson for concussion in round 14, should see the medical doctors at the club come under some form of scrutiny.

It's not about who is out, but how many. It strips the team of flexibility and the chance to select players on the back of form (as not much comes through the VFL side).

There are many reasons for the team's woes, the shallow midfield, the game mentality, the zone defense (which I despise), etc. But anyone that refuses to accept the toll injuries have had on the club are only informing to others they're aren't fit to be hanging around on this thread.

 

[SickQwon]

They say injuries mean nothing but for a club like ours in the current position it is in, losing players means an awful lot. This club is trying it's best to not only build a strong squad, but the depth to cover it as well.

- Only 2 players are so far looking to participate in every AFL match this season (Patrick Cripps and Sam Petrevski-Seton).
- Give or take the 3 suspensions (Ed Curnow, Dale Thomas and Jed Lamb), an average of 11 players were unable to be selected on a weekly basis. That's a quarter of the list.
- There have been around 39 instances of a player succumbing to injury during a match (13 of them from the VFL).
- Carlton lead the injury table with 185 games missed from injured players. A guaranteed 49 over the next five weeks takes the total to an alarming 234. It can only go up from there.
- 5 of the seven players out for the rest of the season are known to play in the backline (Sam Docherty, Liam Jones, Lachie Plowman, Alex Silvagni and Tom Williamson). Adding to that, Ciaran Byrne, Harrison Macreadie, Caleb Marchbank and Jesse Glass-McCasker have all missed huge chunks of the year. Add all the games these lot have missed, that's just about equal to 115. Almost half of the minimum total (234).
- This has led to approximately 17 players rotating through defense.
- 6 instances when a player has re-aggravated the same injury they were coming off from (Matthew Kennedy - ankle, Matthew Kreuzer - groin, Marc Murphy - plantar fascia. Tom Williamson - back, Alex Silvagni - Achilles and Harrison Macreadie - Hamstring). This supported by the suspended fine of $20,000 handed down to the club after they failed to diagnose Cameron Polson for concussion in round 14, should see the medical doctors at the club come under some form of scrutiny.

It's not about who is out, but how many. It strips the team of flexibility and the chance to select players on the back of form (as not much comes through the VFL side).

There are many reasons for the team's woes, the shallow midfield, the game mentality, the zone defense (which I despise), etc. But anyone that refuses to accept the toll injuries have had on the club are only informing to others they're aren't fit to be hanging around on this thread.

Exactly, the reality is we were 3rd last, lost Gibbs & Docherty the following season and have faced the worst injury toll I have ever seen since following Carlton.
For both Carlton and opposition supporters, it is impossible to actually gauge where the club is at in terms of their rebuild.

I'm writing this year off tbh.

 

[Malifice]

"It’s the worst side ever to play AFL footy. It literally is the worst side ever to play football. In the whole history, ever. I played in a pretty crap side, but they are crapper."

Anyone else go straight here?