The "Annual" Good Friday football discussion thread

[Geelong63]

Obviously. But that doesn't make all of your points less flawed. Bulldogs and North combined still have over 60,000 members and supporter bases of probably over 100k each who go to games every year. The game will likely be at Etihad due to the cricket world cup so the capacity is only 50k. I just see very little to lose giving 2 of the Victorian clubs without a marquee game first shot at it.

The AFL isn't about being sentimental, it's about making money.

This sort of game just won't capture the imagination of Neutral Supporters.

Maybe the rules could be "tweaked" somewhat

2015: Bulldogs versus North ........loser drops out
2016: Bulldogs versus Saints .......again loser drops out


This sort of play to stay structure might be the fairest way for smaller clubs to get exposure, and maybe get neutrals to attend.

 

[master bate]

Happy for it to be noth Melbourne and Carlton. The first year tho I would like it to be played at the mcg just to see how many people will turn up. Obviously if both teams were winning you would get 60,000! But with the way Carlton have been performing the crowd would be 40,000! But I would give it too north and Carlton for 5 years and see how the attendances go. If they don't average 50,000 over a 5 year period I would give it to another club.

I think early Easter and Cricket World Cup means it can't be MCG.

 

[master bate]

The AFL isn't about being sentimental, it's about making money.

This sort of game just won't capture the imagination of Neutral Supporters.

Maybe the rules could be "tweaked" somewhat

2015: Bulldogs versus North ........loser drops out
2016: Bulldogs versus Saints .......again loser drops out


This sort of play to stay structure might be the fairest way for smaller clubs to get exposure, and maybe get neutrals to attend.

The AFL isn't about making money. It's a not for profit agency designed to serve the interests of the clubs and the code. By default any legitimate competition should be based around a level playing field. If Collingwood were allowed 19 players on the ground there'd be issues right? Along the same lines therefore it makes sense to share the TV exposure throughout teams so that all teams so all teams can attract sponsors and members.

Just because Demetriou hunts after profits like a fat kid chasing a cupcake to satisfy the bonus clauses in his contract doesn't mean we all have to be brainwashed in to thinking the same way.

That said whilst it may hurt the continuity of the games status I do actually like the revolving winner strategy. Bulldogs, North and Saints all don't have a blockbuster game. Winner stays on and winner hosts the next game would be an amazing concept to make the game a fierce on field battle and give it a finals like air. Would be creative but also very fun.

 

[Geelong63]

The AFL isn't about making money. It's a not for profit agency designed to serve the interests of the clubs and the code. By default any legitimate competition should be based around a level playing field. If Collingwood were allowed 19 players on the ground there'd be issues right? Along the same lines therefore it makes sense to share the TV exposure throughout teams so that all teams so all teams can attract sponsors and members.

Just because Demetriou hunts after profits like a fat kid chasing a cupcake to satisfy the bonus clauses in his contract doesn't mean we all have to be brainwashed in to thinking the same way.

That said whilst it may hurt the continuity of the games status I do actually like the revolving winner strategy. Bulldogs, North and Saints all don't have a blockbuster game. Winner stays on and winner hosts the next game would be an amazing concept to make the game a fierce on field battle and give it a finals like air. Would be creative but also very fun.

Of course it would be creative

Could you imagine the Bulldogs, North and Saints all going as hard as possible in order to be able to gain the "Hosting Rights" to next years game.
Hosting rights would involve getting all (if any) profits from the game

Now that's something a Neutral Supporter might think about wanting to watch.

Plus it would be hugely amusing to listen to the losing club's president on how unfair it all was.




(PS) you must be the only person who believes that the AFL is a not for profit organisation.

They might have a piece of paper that suggests that, but in practice they are anything other than that

 

[Suma Magic]

There are charities in all states that could benefit from a charity game on GF.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The AFL isn't about being sentimental, it's about making money.

This sort of game just won't capture the imagination of Neutral Supporters.

How much does the return Collingwood v Essendon game later in the season capture our imaginations? Considering it's usually been something like sixth versus thirteenth, I'd say not at all.

You're only looking at it from the raw crowd numbers, which is clearly flawed. Look at it this way. Next week, Collingwood will play against Essendon on Anzac Day at the MCG and they'll probably get low 90s. Now, say the Bulldogs were at Etihad on Saturday night against St Kilda, North Melbourne or Melbourne and were aiming for about 30k. Now, imagine those matches were reversed and now the Bulldogs game was at 2:30pm Anzac Day and Collingwood v Essendon was on Saturday night at the MCG. I'd suggest the new Anzac Day game would now be aiming for 45k+, while Collingwood v Essendon would be looking at about 85k. Which would make the attendance higher overall.

 

[Geelong63]

Just gotta love the "Give the small clubs a go types on here"
Nothing personal - It's just business.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Just gotta love the "Give the small clubs a go types on here"
Nothing personal - It's just business.

How does improving a Collingwood v Essendon crowd by about 12% over what it would get anyway (low 80s v low 90s), compared to improving a (for example) Western Bulldogs v North Melbourne crowd by about 50% over what it would get anyway (~30 v ~45) and, in all likelihood, increasing the attendance overall, represent good business?

 

[Geelong63]

How does improving a Collingwood v Essendon crowd by about 12% over what it would get anyway (low 80s v low 90s), compared to improving a (for example) Western Bulldogs v North Melbourne crowd by about 50% over what it would get anyway (~30 v ~45) and, in all likelihood, increasing the attendance overall, represent good business?

Maths obviously wasn't your strong suit at school eh?

The return on a low 90's crowd will always exceed the return on a 30's to low 40's crowd.

That's how I see it.

That's how the AFL see's it.

 

[Sanders]

Conveniently not acklowdging

1. Good Friday Appeal is in Melb
2. The benefits of half the teams being here is that 2 teams fans (and neutrals) can turn up
3. The footy media revolves around Melb, Victorian footy fans have a lot more interest in games of 2 Vic clubs

Even when they are good I don't think anyone is keen for Bris, GWS or GC to host a marquee game. Sydney, the SA and WA teams can state there case. If the WA teams want it I'd advise them to build a new stadium first.

Way to live up to the worst stereotypes

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Personally, I don't think it matters who plays. Neutral supporters will watch it cause it's on.

Neutral supporters don't care about Collingwood v Essendon on Anzac day, we care about the game cause it's the one on TV on that day.

I don't think it has to be two big clubs, people will attend regardless of the teams playing, and if anything, if two smaller clubs did get too play, it would actually allow neutral supporters to attend

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Maths obviously wasn't your strong suit at school eh?

The return on a low 90's crowd will always exceed the return on a 30's to low 40's crowd.

Hey, I wasn't the one that was humourously wondering what would happen if two smaller Victorian clubs drew less than 15,000 on Good Friday.

Essendon v Collingwood in current form and a prime time, non-Anzac, slot next week (say Saturday night) would easily get 80k regardless and would probably get over 85,000. Recent early-season games between these teams and Richmond/Carlton back this up. Really not a massive difference over the low 90s they'd be anticipating for this Friday.

Western Bulldogs v North Melbourne would expect to get about 30,000 in the similar Saturday night slot, but would expect to get 45,000 if they were given a public holiday blockbuster.

So, let's say 93,000 and 30,000 v 83,000 and 45,000.

Looks like 123k v 128k and a beneficial result by giving the smaller clubs the big stage, from where I'm sitting.

That's how I see it.

That's how the AFL see's it.

Rubbish. The AFL has said nothing of the sort. As far as I'm aware, they have never rejected a 'small' club's bid for a blockbuster fixture outright because they were too small and, with North Melbourne in particular, pushing hard for Good Friday, 'how the AFL see's (sic) it' will be revealed in due course.

If the AFL sees it as you do, can you explain why Queen's Birthday involves Melbourne and not Richmond or Carlton?

 

[Geelong63]

Rubbish. The AFL has said nothing of the sort. As far as I'm aware,

If the AFL sees it as you do, can you explain why Queen's Birthday involves Melbourne and not Richmond or Carlton?

Well then, why have all 18 clubs agreed with the AFL to maximise returns?

This is why smaller clubs are compensated with extra $$$


As per the Queens Birthday Game.

You conveniently neglected to mention that a Big Club in Collingwood also plays in that game.

As far as I can see, this game now falls within a "Traditional Game" framework. It's been going on for decades.
Melbourne obviously is a beneficiary of this. It wouldn't happen otherwise.

First in best dressed I suppose. (They wouldn't get the game based on merit today)


Carlton and Richmond will return next year as the stand alone First Game of the season.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Well then, why have all 18 clubs agreed with the AFL to maximise returns?

This is why smaller clubs are compensated with extra $$$

Because you've just invented that. No such thing has ever happened. In fact, one of the points that was recently agreed to by the clubs was designed to do the exact opposite to what you're suggesting.

8. Revenue sharing recipients must remain incentivised to grow and actively address causes of disadvantage

As per the Queens Birthday Game.

You conveniently neglected to mention that a Big Club in Collingwood also plays in that game.

I didn't conveniently forget anything. A Queen's Birthday game in the late 1990s between Collingwood and Melbourne drew 40k, just. Two years later, it became an annual event. It drew 50.8k last year. The point is that Collingwood against any number of teams (which, pretty obviously, was what I was getting at by mentioning Richmond and Carlton, as alternatives to Melbourne) would get 20k+ more than that, easily.

As far as I can see, this game now falls within a "Traditional Game" framework. It's been going on for decades.
Melbourne obviously is a beneficiary of this. It wouldn't happen otherwise.

First in best dressed I suppose. (They wouldn't get the game based on merit today)

Carlton and Richmond will return next year as the stand alone First Game of the season.

So, what you're saying is two big Victorian clubs don't need a specific public holiday to for one of its games to be a blockbuster; they just need a prime time spot generally? I think we might be going around in circles then.

 

[Geelong63]

Because you've just invented that. No such thing has ever happened. In fact, one of the points that was recently agreed to by the clubs was designed to do the exact opposite to what you're suggesting.





I didn't conveniently forget anything. A Queen's Birthday game in the late 1990s between Collingwood and Melbourne drew 40k, just. Two years later, it became an annual event. It drew 50.8k last year. The point is that Collingwood against any number of teams (which, pretty obviously, was what I was getting at by mentioning Richmond and Carlton, as alternatives to Melbourne) would get 20k+ more than that, easily.



So, what you're saying is two big Victorian clubs don't need a specific public holiday to for one of its games to be a blockbuster; they just need a prime time spot generally? I think we might be going around in circles then.

What you really meant to say was that you need to do a bit more research on the above!

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Just play the 2 grand finalists from the year before and make it something to watch. At least you know you are more then likely going to get a good game

 

[The Blue Baggers]

north v carlton

make it north's home game .... a la melbourne v collingwood queens bday ...

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

What you really meant to say was that you need to do a bit more research on the above!

Ok mate.

 

[lenny2013]

The Good Friday blockbuster would be a perfect day for a double header that consists of a grand final replay and 3rd V 4th finishing sides from the previous year.

 

[thurmanmunson]

Should be North v Carlton in 2015, with Carlton foregoing the opening Richmond clash for next year only. I don't think that many blocks will be busted if North play the Bulldogs, sadly

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Not sure if it's been asked -

Would ANZAC day ever fall on Good Friday? I assume it could?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Personally, I don't think it matters who plays. Neutral supporters will watch it cause it's on.

Neutral supporters don't care about Collingwood v Essendon on Anzac day, we care about the game cause it's the one on TV on that day.

I don't think it has to be two big clubs, people will attend regardless of the teams playing, and if anything, if two smaller clubs did get too play, it would actually allow neutral supporters to attend

The whole neutral thing is BS IMO.

Anzac Day doesn't attract neutrals, it's a myth.

I think the big clubs is don't only have a bigger core support - those who go most weeks - but also more casual supporters who may only go to one or two games a year. Given its a big event on a public holiday they make the trip.

That's what makes up the extra numbers - not this neutrals myth. There may be a few in the MCC, but that'd be most of it.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The whole neutral thing is BS IMO.

Anzac Day doesn't attract neutrals, it's a myth.

I think the big clubs is don't only have a bigger core support - those who go most weeks - but also more casual supporters who may only go to one or two games a year. Given its a big event on a public holiday they make the trip.

That's what makes up the extra numbers - not this neutrals myth. There may be a few in the MCC, but that'd be most of it.

I think that's probably right. I'm MCC and the casual 1-2 times a year Collingwood and Essendon friends are usually the ones that I'm getting in with visitors passes. I think there's something to be said for the idea that people have less to do on Good Friday, therefore those neutrals who live in the inner suburbs might be more tempted to go to a game on that day, but that's probably offset by the MCC member factor, if it does end up being played at Etihad.

I know Collingwood specifically sells 3-game memberships with guaranteed access to Anzac Day; presumably Essendon does too. I just think such an event, especially if it's granted with the explicit understanding that it will only be retained if it's a success, would be enough of a kick up the arse to get 20-25k members/supporters from each team going along to see WB/StK/NM at Etihad on Good Friday.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Not sure if it's been asked -

Would ANZAC day ever fall on Good Friday? I assume it could?

The latest that Good Friday can be is April 23rd. Which means Anzac Day could clash with Easter Sunday and Monday (which happened in 2011, with the standard Easter Monday fixture actually being played on Tuesday), but never Good Friday.

Next time that Good Friday is on April 23 will be 2038.

 

[Quinz]

I hope we do get footy on Good Friday. I'd love a yearly game in Perth that starts as a game at Docklands finishes.

If there is a marquee game in Melbourne though, I hope North are involved. They've done the groundwork, and you have to respect that.

Just in general actually, have a lot of respect for the way the Kangaroos operate. Don't rely on porkies, actively make attempts at breaking new ground in time slots and looking for ways to innovate, even when they've had things they've pioneered taken from them in some ways in the past.

They're a smaller club who know that they need an edge to compete, and work hard to achieve it. Good club.