Unsolved The Beaumont Children

Remove this Banner Ad

Tues

Senior List
Dec 6, 2020
150
258
AFL Club
Sydney
As noted Phipps becomes less and less likely just based on his ''recognition factor'' . Granted this can obscure a lot of things but not 3 kids with him the day 3 go missing
Take out the Pound note (from a year later) and the Phipps house of cards crumbles and all you are left is a grubby accusation based on 'deviancy'
But how reliable is the recognition factor? The reason why I question this is because of the vast amount of wrongful convictions in Australia which were based on incorrect witness descriptions. In this case how reliable were witness accounts- how many kids similar in appearance were at the beach with their father that day for example, just guessing I would assume there were kids running rampant that day. Then there is the 'alleged' witness account made by Smith whose recollected seems to have been altered to be more defined in accusing the Tony Munro/Max McIntyre saga for example the first account claimed the kids were with 3 men but later that statement morphed into a description indicating a young Munro right down to wearing 'European style designer swimmers' :rolleyes: I've got no idea on this Mullins person apart from the Satin man and because I still think it was someone who lived nearby and who befriended those kids, groomed them daily (they went to the beach almost every day apparently during those school holidays) Phipps OR a associate was that prick who gained the kids trust completely and lured them to a nearby house. Someone local who didn't have to work during those holidays which also could point to he being a school teacher hence Jane taking her book 'Little Women' to impress, who either lived very close by or had access to a house close by.
 
Last edited:

Tues

Senior List
Dec 6, 2020
150
258
AFL Club
Sydney
January 26 2021. Today marks 56 long years since the Beaumont children were abducted. Will the truthful facts revealing who was responsible ever emerge? Yes it will because we will NEVER forget these little kids, we will NEVER give up on them.

Be at peace little ones, thinking of you often.
 
Last edited:

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
12,721
28,723
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
they will be found tues, phipps' fetishes and address do not a case make, mullins has "teased" the idea that he also took the oval girls, this infuriated me as my calls for clarification were met only with talking over, and then blocking, this was on facebook, if you cant win an argument - block the person out, says it all i reckon ... suzie ratcliffe herself used to be very hot against people writing books on these tragedies, michael madigan is another offender in this regard, as for bryan sadly being led up the garden path by several people, that also has resulted in names being bandied about which only stir people up and fuel beliefs that sapol are crooked because they wont dig a well, or do another castalloy dig, or whatever
If the hard investigative work has been done, I have no issue with books. The market, which is still there will rank them and royalties paid accordingly.

Given rewards of up to $1m are on offer for information that goes towards a conviction in many cold case crimes now, the books are small fry.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Tues

Senior List
Dec 6, 2020
150
258
AFL Club
Sydney
If the hard investigative work has been done, I have no issue with books. The market, which is still there will rank them and royalties paid accordingly.

Given rewards of up to $1m are on offer for information that goes towards a conviction in many cold case crimes now, the books are small fry.
I also have no issue with books, in fact I embrace them. Authors of true crime books do the hard yards, they do what journalists don't do - complete research, their book will have a list pertaining to the facts revealed during their research and write the truth, not just hearsay or their own opinions which is another thing journalists don't do. I embrace their dedication in seeking the truth and giving us a insight to things we would otherwise have no clue about.
 

sprockets

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2004
4,765
8,002
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond

charlie20

Debutant
May 14, 2020
114
141
AFL Club
GWS
To put your observation back at you, is there a logical reason to link all of them or any of them considering what we know?

Dieter Pfennig was arrested and charged with Michael Black's murder. Decades later he was forensically linked to Louise Bell's abduction (and by logical extension her murder). There's an indisputable scientific link. So we know who committed those crimes.

Bevan von Einem was forensically linked to Richard Kelvin's murder by carpet fibres from his home as well as black dyed hairs matching his. He's also a prime suspect in 4 unsolved murders of males aged 14 to 25. Other key suspects are Mr R (clock shop owner), Mr B (former male prostitute), Dr Stephen Woodards, numerous transsexuals and hairdresser Denis St Denis. But they main unifying feature is that overwhelmingly these were men who were into other men and whose victim type was teenagers and young adults. To me I see no reason to believe they deviated from that victim type.

Linking the Beaumont Children and Adelaide Oval is a possibility. Those crimes involved victims of similar ages and apart from Grant Beaumont were all girls. That's the strongest case for a link. However, those victims are so different from Pfennig's and The Family's that I can't see anyone involved in either of those crimes having abducted young children
ok, lets start with dp, yes he was arrested and charged with michael black's murder, and then later linked to louise bell, but there is no logcal extension to murder, THEIR BODIES HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND, they are technically still missing person cases, imo they are dead, but - pfenning denies killing either victim, and claims he doesnt know where they are (buried, were held, etc), most recently he tried to claim the germanic origin dna on louise's pj proved the culprit was the same man who attempted to kill the backpackers in the south east a few years back (i forget his name)

i will jump ahead to the beaumont, adelaide oval, family link, my explanation - group evolution, preferences do not necessarily remain static, for example, a group might start out by torturing and killing small animals, then later move onto small children, then teenagers, then young adults, and so forth
 

DropBearess

Debutant
Apr 3, 2019
54
108
AFL Club
Adelaide
I have always believed that the "pound note" evidence has been the biggest hinderance to solving/progressing this case. For goodness sakes, this is just one statement from ONE PERSON in an incredibly busy bakery where hundreds of adults and children were served every day in holiday season! Just look at all the kerfuffle and speculation this has caused for 50 years. I don't believe the pound note stuff ever happened.
Why has there been so much credibility given to just one 'witness' and why has this been allowed to remain an undisputed 'fact' and the basis of investigations for so long?

I am firm in my belief the Beaumont children and the Ratcliffe and Gordon children were taken by the same person.
 

SquiffyRae

Debutant
Sep 28, 2020
108
295
AFL Club
Collingwood
i will jump ahead to the beaumont, adelaide oval, family link, my explanation - group evolution, preferences do not necessarily remain static, for example, a group might start out by torturing and killing small animals, then later move onto small children, then teenagers, then young adults, and so forth
I agree victim profiles can change. However, even if The Family had started out with much younger victims, I'm still struggling to believe that gay men wouldn't target boys in that scenario and not a group of 2 girls and 1 boy and later 2 girls.

The other thing is the suspects in the Family murders don't fit the descriptions of either the Beaumont suspect or the Adelaide Oval suspect, both of whom were middle aged and in the Beaumonts' case had fair hair.

Bevan von Einem, the one man charged with a Family murder, was 19 at the time. He had also been involved in a car accident and the trauma from it caused his hair to go prematurely grey/white, something he covered up by dyeing his hair. His mugshot shows him with almost jet black hair that later reverted to grey by the time of his trial. Presumably von Einem had dark hair as a youngster and dyed his hair a similar dark colour for however long he was dyeing it for. A 19 year old with obviously dyed dark hair wouldn't be mistaken for a middle aged man with fair hair. Even if von Einem dyed his hair lighter at the time, you're unlikely to mistake a 19 year old for someone late 30s/early 40s.

As for the others, Mr R's age is uncertain but he's roughly the same age as von Einem and I've heard some say slightly younger. I've never seen a photo of him or read a physical description but again you'd be unlikely to mistake an 18/19 year old for a middle aged man. Dr Woodards was 16 so even less likely to be mistaken for a middle aged man. And Mr B definitely couldn't be involved as he was born in the same year as Jane Beaumont.

SAPOL are very confident they know the major players in the Family murders and they're all way too young to be the man seen with the Beaumont children on that day. The only tenuous link SAPOL have is a story Mr B told them about von Einem confessing his involvement but given police believe Mr B's testimony on the murders is heavily altered to remove his own involvement, you can't really place any trust in a word he says
 

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
12,721
28,723
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I have always believed that the "pound note" evidence has been the biggest hinderance to solving/progressing this case. For goodness sakes, this is just one statement from ONE PERSON in an incredibly busy bakery where hundreds of adults and children were served every day in holiday season! Just look at all the kerfuffle and speculation this has caused for 50 years. I don't believe the pound note stuff ever happened.
It's a red herring, agree. On examination and taking into consideration everything that was going on that day and the kid's circumstances, it makes no sense whatsoever that so much faith was placed in it actually happening and imo, it didn't.

When I was researching this, I formed the view that the lady from Wenzels approached the press a year later and that it was possible the cops had tried to ignore her account of being passed a one pound note the first time because they didn't think it happened either.

That team Phipps has given it such great significance and weaved it in to support the claim that Phipps is responsible might be convenient but that Bryan Littlely has done it as well with the Vietnam Vet's account might say something else.
 

Tues

Senior List
Dec 6, 2020
150
258
AFL Club
Sydney
From a FB page: :)

News Corporation has quietly removed a large portion of Bryan Littlely's work regarding The Beaumont Children from circulation. The now ex-journalist previously made a raft of sensational claims, evolving over several years, for which there was no evidence. The unprofessional and manipulative nature of Littley's reporting has been addressed by the ABC's Media Watch and in a statement released by police. Regarding his exploitation of the Beaumont Children Bryan Littley has rationalized online that "conflict is the basis of news" while running an abusive commentary toward those seeking justification for his claims.
Unfounded speculation obstructs the resolution of crimes, re-traumatizes and exploits its victims. In this instance the reporting also victimized additional innocent people.
The public has a right to expect respect and benefit — not time wasted and harm — from the activities of investigative journalists.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
12,721
28,723
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
That team Phipps has given it such great significance and weaved it in to support the claim that Phipps is responsible might be convenient but that Bryan Littlely has done it as well with the Vietnam Vet's account might say something else.
So the point there is that if the kids didn't go in to Wenzels and pay with a one pound note, the Vietnam Vet's account is a fabrication.
 

johnymac1

Senior List
Nov 6, 2019
277
327
AFL Club
Adelaide
I have always believed that the "pound note" evidence has been the biggest hinderance to solving/progressing this case. For goodness sakes, this is just one statement from ONE PERSON in an incredibly busy bakery where hundreds of adults and children were served every day in holiday season! Just look at all the kerfuffle and speculation this has caused for 50 years. I don't believe the pound note stuff ever happened.
Why has there been so much credibility given to just one 'witness' and why has this been allowed to remain an undisputed 'fact' and the basis of investigations for so long?

I am firm in my belief the Beaumont children and the Ratcliffe and Gordon children were taken by the same person.
Once the statment was made Police needed to follow up the report. Interview her a few days later and see if the story changed. Lead her on a bit, "did you see the 13 year old boy with the BC kids"? If she she said yes!!, then its possible she was making it up. In a way helping her produce her own narrative.
Who knows? there may have been many other sightings that day, many that place the kids at a different location. The sightings obviously havnt come to light yet!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Tues

Senior List
Dec 6, 2020
150
258
AFL Club
Sydney
From a FB page: :)

News Corporation has quietly removed a large portion of Bryan Littlely's work regarding The Beaumont Children from circulation. The now ex-journalist previously made a raft of sensational claims, evolving over several years, for which there was no evidence. The unprofessional and manipulative nature of Littley's reporting has been addressed by the ABC's Media Watch and in a statement released by police. Regarding his exploitation of the Beaumont Children Bryan Littley has rationalized online that "conflict is the basis of news" while running an abusive commentary toward those seeking justification for his claims.
Unfounded speculation obstructs the resolution of crimes, re-traumatizes and exploits its victims. In this instance the reporting also victimized additional innocent people.
The public has a right to expect respect and benefit — not time wasted and harm — from the activities of investigative journalists.
For Example: All links in article work.
 

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
12,721
28,723
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
For Example: All links in article work.
Not only was his article misleading, in that it headlined there was a new clue in the 50yo AO abductions when there wasn't but it pushed a current huge story on the embezzlement of the Victims of Crime fund out of the way to effectively bury it.

The big story on the current event of theft out of the fund just happened to be investigative crime writer Nigel Hunt's.
 

Deni

Senior List
Aug 18, 2019
238
270
AFL Club
Adelaide
After the children left the shop, no one saw them get into a car
or walk home to Somerton Park, and the bus driver did not see
them on his bus that afternoon. As the police later observed, it
was as if they’d ‘disappeared into thin air’.
What about the postie, did he ever get his sighting time correct?
 

johnymac1

Senior List
Nov 6, 2019
277
327
AFL Club
Adelaide
not sure if this has been posted before. but it has a photo of the police report card
saying they left their home 8.45am, also has a photo of where they were last seen.
 

Deni

Senior List
Aug 18, 2019
238
270
AFL Club
Adelaide
I have always believed that the "pound note" evidence has been the biggest hinderance to solving/progressing this case. For goodness sakes, this is just one statement from ONE PERSON in an incredibly busy bakery where hundreds of adults and children were served every day in holiday season! Just look at all the kerfuffle and speculation this has caused for 50 years. I don't believe the pound note stuff ever happened.
Why has there been so much credibility given to just one 'witness' and why has this been allowed to remain an undisputed 'fact' and the basis of investigations for so long?
I have said this over and over again. I lived across the road from Wenzels at that time, I was only 6 though, but my brothers were older and they told me that the bakery was packed all day, well from the times we were home, we were at the beach and Colley reserve that day too, my oldest brother was home a lot of the day with his mates though, he was 16 and remembers the day and the aftermath well..
But yes, the chances of the children being noticed in the shop with a pound note were very slim indeed.
The beach was packed, I do remember that kind of, you couldn't swing your towel around without hitting some person you didn't know. And I really doubt that Colley Reserve had their sprinklers on that day, my brothers told me there were hundreds of picnicing families there, a sprinkler going would have taken up space for a family, so no, I don't believe they were seen playing with some blonde man either. As for the pound note, i'm not sure about that either, David Smith was alleged to have said Jane told him the man gave them money, I call BS, in MY opinion, David was groomed on what to say.
On the petition, and ivé gone over that with a fine toothed comb, a guy posted that he had seen 3 children in a certain car, I can't remember what it was now, i'd have to look it up again. As soon as that post was put up the petition maker and Beaumont Facebook admin quickly asked him to send her a message on FB, just after that, within weeks, David Smith appeared, i'm probably picking at straws here but it's mighty coincidental..
 

Deni

Senior List
Aug 18, 2019
238
270
AFL Club
Adelaide
not sure if this has been posted before. but it has a photo of the police report card
saying they left their home 8.45am, also has a photo of where they were last seen.
Whoever the journo was on that piece should have been hauled over the coals...
They write, and I quote:

"At 10am, the children left their home travelling by bus to the Glenelg beach."

Whereas right underneath that sentence is the police report card saying the children left home at 8.40am.

How can they get that so wrong, just that fact could put some people off thinking, for example, "no, I couldn't have seen them at 9.30am, they didn't leave home until 10am"
Ridiculous mistake!!
 

Deni

Senior List
Aug 18, 2019
238
270
AFL Club
Adelaide
Further on David Smiths account, he said he left for Puckapunyal days after the 26th, you can't tell me he didn't pick up a newspaper the next day, it was on the front page on the 27th, and i'm guessing everyday for a week or more, plus people would have been talking about it all over town.
What did he do, lock himself in his room reading nothing and seeing no-one until it was time for him to leave.
Another reason I call BS on his statement!!
 

johnymac1

Senior List
Nov 6, 2019
277
327
AFL Club
Adelaide
Whoever the journo was on that piece should have been hauled over the coals...
They write, and I quote:

"At 10am, the children left their home travelling by bus to the Glenelg beach."

Whereas right underneath that sentence is the police report card saying the children left home at 8.40am.

How can they get that so wrong, just that fact could put some people off thinking, for example, "no, I couldn't have seen them at 9.30am, they didn't leave home until 10am"
Ridiculous mistake!!
Went to the beach alot as a teenager, glenelg, somerton and brighton beaches. On a hot day, families normaly go early morning or late afternoon.
The beach used to clear out a bit at midday untill about 3pm. Unless they were parked on the beach with decent shade. Like the old green and white awnings.
I cant seen them leaving at 10am, thats a bit late. One thing I noticed, the beach was a magnet for pervs. There were always some old dudes hanging around the toilet blocks. The 80s was fun time to grow up, but you still had to be careful.
 

Remove this Banner Ad