The Best Stopper

[GrandBlue]

Of all the pure tall defenders in the league, who would you call the best. Keep in mind, when I say stopper, I refer to a player's defensive side only.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

I'd have Matty Scarlett on my team

 

[HFF]

Scarlett or Presti.

Scarlett is the complete defender. The premier backman in the comp.

However, purely on defensive ability aka stopper, Presti is just as good as Scarlett.

 

[donbooger]

Tough choice, players like Fisher and Scarlett would be better defenders then first apparent but will play off there man and take risks more often.

When you consider that it makes it an extremely hard poll.

Presti was the first name to come to mind, though he is useless once the spoil is done.

 

[Claude Balls]

Relative to a defender who can both nullify and attack, Presti's stopping capabilities are exaggerated because he can't do anything else.

Scarlett is still a better pure defender than Presti because he can not only spoil and wrestle, but outsmart, out-position and out-mark quality forwards. We just don't notice it as much these days becuase he spends so much time running off and setting up play.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Scarlett isn't a great stopper, but he can rebound which is unusual for a key defender. He concedes fewer goals than most full backs, but got a lot of help from Tom Harley and his midfield. Proof of this was when he played on a fit Franklin in Rd 17 2008. Geelong's midfield wasn't dominant and Scarlett was totally outclassed.

Darren Glass out of this lot.

 

[Spartan]

Its funny how people have such short term memories.

When Glass was named AA at full back for two years in a row most people couldn't split Glass and Scarlett as defenders, as a few polls and media talk at the time would suggest. Glass was considered the better defender but Scarlett had more offense to his game.

Injuries have affected Glass over the last couple of years but he was back to very good form late last year.

As a pure defender I'd pick Glass every single time out of this group.

 

[swiftdog]

Relative to a defender who can both nullify and attack, Presti's stopping capabilities are exaggerated because he can't do anything else.

Scarlett is still a better pure defender than Presti because he can not only spoil and wrestle, but outsmart, out-position and out-mark quality forwards. We just don't notice it as much these days becuase he spends so much time running off and setting up play.

The reason Presti constantly beats Fevola is due to his ability to out-position and outsmart him. It takes more than just strength to be a great stopper.

 

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Presti is the best stopper, Scarlett is the best Backman.

 

[Glassjaw]

The following taken straight from the AFL prospectus, in regards to Matthew Scarlett:

2003 - 24 goals (1.09) 1st in AFL
2004 - 30 goals (1.36) 1st in AFL
2005 - 32 goals (1.45) 3rd in AFL
2006 - 27 goals (1.35) 2nd in AFL
2007 - 26 goals (1.23) 1st in AFL
2008 - 32 goals (1.45) 1st in AFL

Seems pretty obvious. His best year was in a side that came 12th too. He conceded less goals than Darren Glass did in the Eagles premiership year of 2006 (where Geelong finished 10th).

 

[cannons]

James Frawley.

Not only a brilliant stopper, but he provides excellent drive out of defence as well.

 

[Claude Balls]

The following taken straight from the AFL prospectus, in regards to Matthew Scarlett:

2003 - 24 goals (1.09) 1st in AFL
2004 - 30 goals (1.36) 1st in AFL
2005 - 32 goals (1.45) 3rd in AFL
2006 - 27 goals (1.35) 2nd in AFL
2007 - 26 goals (1.23) 1st in AFL
2008 - 32 goals (1.45) 1st in AFL

Seems pretty obvious. His best year was in a side that came 12th too. He conceded less goals than Darren Glass did in the Eagles premiership year of 2006 (where Geelong finished 10th).

Most people just automatically can't accept that Scarlett is the best defender because is the best offensively. Why do you think he's regarded as one of the greatest fullbacks of all time? Because he is ALMOST as good as Presti defensively but better offensively? Get real. He is a porsche compared to Presti's holden V8. Glass is the only comparable player of the above lot.

Re Glassjaw's stats, he was regarded as comfortably the best pure 'defender' in '03 and '04, when Geelong finished 10/11th and 4th, and has been pretty damn solid ever since despite spending most of his time setting up play.

 

[GrandBlue]

As I expected, supporters overrating their own players, in this case, Cats fans. A lot of people like yourselves seem to think statistics ALWAYS tell the story even though that's not necessarily the truth. In the last 3 years, Matthew Scarlett has been getting a ride, given the ball doesn't get up Geelong's back half a lot, Scarlett doesn't have such a tough job to do. Along with that, you haven't even considered how Scarlett would operate without Harley. Not every team has a gun third man up always providing help in a contest. Glass didn't get much help at all, he was the Eagles' best defender by FAR and always did a reliable job in 1 on 1 contests. Scarlett's also good at that, but I don't rate him as high as Glass or Presti in that category.

 

[Hodgepodge]

The following taken straight from the AFL prospectus, in regards to Matthew Scarlett:

2003 - 24 goals (1.09) 1st in AFL
2004 - 30 goals (1.36) 1st in AFL
2005 - 32 goals (1.45) 3rd in AFL
2006 - 27 goals (1.35) 2nd in AFL
2007 - 26 goals (1.23) 1st in AFL
2008 - 32 goals (1.45) 1st in AFL

Seems pretty obvious. His best year was in a side that came 12th too. He conceded less goals than Darren Glass did in the Eagles premiership year of 2006 (where Geelong finished 10th).

The problem with these stats is that Geelong are known for trying other defenders with key forwards (i.e. Mackie, Harley, Egan, Taylor) and using Scarlett as a rebounding defender.

This bumps up his stats significantly across most of these years.

 

[Claude Balls]

As I expected, supporters overrating their own players, in this case, Cats fans. A lot of people like yourselves seem to think statistics ALWAYS tell the story even though that's not necessarily the truth. In the last 3 years, Matthew Scarlett has been getting a ride, given the ball doesn't get up Geelong's back half a lot, Scarlett doesn't have such a tough job to do. Along with that, you haven't even considered how Scarlett would operate without Harley. Not every team has a gun third man up always providing help in a contest. Glass didn't get much help at all, he was the Eagles' best defender by FAR and always did a reliable job in 1 on 1 contests. Scarlett's also good at that, but I don't rate him as high as Glass or Presti in that category.

Did I even need open the thread when I saw you'd just posted? You're like Hodgepodge's partner in crime when it comes to Geelong.

Anyway, I understand the fallibility of football stast, and didn't post any in this thread. Just mentioned that the 2003 and 2004 stats highlight the fact that Scarlett was regarded almost unequivocally as the best nullifying fullback in those two years, when Geelong was barely half the team it is today and Tom Harley played solely as a CHB, NOT as a third man up.

BTW, in another thread you'd be far more likely to lable Tom Harley a hack. Suits your purpose here though.

 

[Jimi]

James Frawley.

Not only a brilliant stopper, but he provides excellent drive out of defence as well.

Not even in the best 20 stoppers in the league. Maybe at the end of this year he'll be top 10.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

What is the definition of 'stopper'.

If it is stopping your opponent from scoring goals, then it covers not just the ability to beat or spoil your opponent in aerial contests, but also when the ball is on the deck.

Presti might be a very good spoiler or blanket type player, but give me Scarlett any day as an all round stopper.

The ability to clear the ball effectively from defence is another form of preventing your opponent from scoring, but the OP seems pretty keen to disregard this element from the discussion for some reason.

 

[HELLA BONG RIPS]

In the last 3 years, Matthew Scarlett has been getting a ride, given the ball doesn't get up Geelong's back half a lot, Scarlett doesn't have such a tough job to do.

Our Midfield isn't some unstoppable force, the difference between the amount of ball coming into our forward line is negligible compared to any other decent team, as you'll see below.

Inside 50s conceded per game:

SK: 41.5
AD: 43.2
GE: 46.0
HW: 47.8
CW: 49.5

(From Prostats)

 

[GrandBlue]

Did I even need open the thread when I saw you'd just posted? You're like Hodgepodge's partner in crime when it comes to Geelong.

Anyway, I understand the fallibility of football stast, and didn't post any in this thread. Just mentioned that the 2003 and 2004 stats highlight the fact that Scarlett was regarded almost unequivocally as the best nullifying fullback in those two years, when Geelong was barely half the team it is today and Tom Harley played solely as a CHB, NOT as a third man up.

Riiiiiiiight, and I suppose being the best Full-Back from 7 years ago installs you as the best stopper 7 years later. What about those 8 other years? Didn't watch West Coast much, did you?

The fact that the stat 'least goals conceded' is used to compare defenders truly demonstrates how stupid some people can be. It's an unrealiable stat because in the modern game, there aren't many 1 on 1 contests inside 50, players go in to help their man in contests and that's something Geelong specializes in.

 

[HELLA BONG RIPS]

What is the definition of 'stopper'.

If it is stopping your opponent from scoring goals, then it covers not just the ability to beat or spoil your opponent in aerial contests, but also when the ball is on the deck.

Presti might be a very good spoiler or blanket type player, but give me Scarlett any day as an all round stopper.

The ability to clear the ball effectively from defence is another form of preventing your opponent from scoring, but the OP seems pretty keen to disregard this element from the discussion for some reason.

Exactly right. The best way to stop your opponent from getting the ball, is to have it yourself.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Exactly right. The best way to stop your opponent from getting the ball, is to have it yourself.

On current form Sam Mitchell is the best stopper in the league.

 

[Claude Balls]

Riiiiiiiight, and I suppose being the best Full-Back from 7 years ago installs you as the best stopper 7 years later. What about those 8 other years? Didn't watch West Coast much, did you?

The fact that the stat 'least goals conceded' is used to compare defenders truly demonstrates how stupid some people can be. It's an unrealiable stat because in the modern game, there aren't many 1 on 1 contests inside 50, players go in to help their man in contests and that's something Geelong specializes in.

Let's break this down Einstein.

1. You said Scarlett has been getting a ride the last 3 years and so I highlighted how he'd been the comps best defensive fullback when Geelong were shit.

2. I never brought the stats up. I agree that the goals conceded is a fallible measure, but mentioned those of '03 and '04 nonetheless to embellish my argument about Scarlett's performance back then. The fact that he was AA fullback in a shit team should be quaLItative enough for you.

3. Though Glass has been superb at times over the last 7 years, he has been a rabble for the last two years, relative to his '05 and '06 form, so you are hardly adhering to recent times either.



BTW, on account of your anti Geelong sentiments you assume that I voted Scarlett over all others. I only started up when Presti was leading the poll by bloody 5 votes, and would probably vote for Glass at the end of the day.

 

[HELLA BONG RIPS]

On current form Sam Mitchell is the best stopper in the league.

Is it Sam Mitchell's role to stop his opponent from getting the ball?

 

[Rioli magic]

Bolton or Presti.

 

[Swampfox]

Jack Regan (Collingwood)