Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[btdg]

it was lost when wanganeen won it as a back pocket picking up 17 disposals a game in a season where ablett and carey put together two of the greatest individual seasons the game has ever seen and greg williams absolutely dominated as the games undisputed best midfielder.

other ridiculous wins include:

goodes first brownlow. Played as a sole ruck picking up 17 unmanned disposals a game and only 12 hit outs. 12! Could probably add jim stynes win here as well as he only averaged 11 hit outs a game as a ruck. But he at least averaged 25 disposals a game when disposals were harder to come by.

judds second brownlow (he wasnt even considered all australian worthy that year)

Priddis (See Judd)

cooney 2008 over ablett. Cooney had a great season but ablett was destructive that year. you could probably add bartel over ablett 2007 as Well. The irony with ablett jnr is he won it in the worst of his four dominant years at geelong.

brad hardie. Yep he won a brownlow.

Judd's second Brownlow was deserved, at least the way the award is put together.

I remember watching his first 5 games and thinking he was probably BOG in all of them, without dominating.

He basically only polled votes by getting 30 touches and being the best contested midfielder in a winning team, which is pretty much standard fare. His first 5 games fit this bill, with the exception being a loss to Collingwood where he had 37 touches.

There weren't really any contentious votes for Judd that year. Swan and Ablett's 3 vote games were better, but that's the system. 39 disposals and 3 goals gets you the same votes as 29 and 1 goal if you are the BOG.

It is also true that Ablett and Swan had team mates take votes. But again, that is the system.

FWIW Judd was in the All Australian team that year, too.

 

[Partridge]

cooney 2008 over ablett. Cooney had a great season but ablett was destructive that year. you could probably add bartel over ablett 2007 as Well. The irony with ablett jnr is he won it in the worst of his four dominant years at geelong.

Disagree on that. Ablett's 2009 was unbelievable. I agree he could easily have won in 2007 and 2008 as well (and 2010 while we're at it). In 2007 Bartel got the 3s and Ablett got 1s and 2s (Ablett won every single award except the Brownlow, including the MVP and the Coaches award). In 2008 Ablett missed 4 games and it was just enough to make the difference.

 

[Roby]

Well, yes it is, it's better judged. Neale's Round 6 v GWS is baffling. He gets 3 votes for being 7th highest possession winner (20) while Charlie Cameron kicks 7 goals! In one game Daicos gets 38 possessions and doesn't get a vote. How on earth did Cripps get all those votes to? Petracca won the game for Melbourne against the Swans in the final round and gets bupkiss? The award is a farce. We now have four field umpires and they were way off the mark this year. Time for major change... Coaches need to be told that Ruckmen, Backmen and Forwards are unnecessary, the Umpires certainly think so.

AA is not much better

Players have missed on AA when they were the best player in the competition. So that means AA selectors had 22 goes at it and ****ed up.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Why be a smart campaigner at a pretty good suggestion?

No I legit thing the average punter could give a fairer assessment than some of those who vote.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already but polling 3 votes in a 10 goal loss is a stitch up, too.

Pretty sure daicos got 30 disposals and 3 goals that game as well. Absolutely robbed of the 3 votes.

 

[basashi]

Least credible of all is the All Australian process

 

[BEEG]

Neale should have won last year and the AFL stitched him up letting Cripps off and not giving him votes in the last couple weeks,

It was one of the bigger stitch ups i have seen,

They have just done the old Swanny/Judd and made it right the year after.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Thought Neale had a down year by his standards. Bontempelli, Daicos, or Petracca would've been more deserving winners based on output for the year, I think.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

View attachment 1813925
Lachie Neale Fan Club.

They even got shirts made. Cool.

 

[Head Selector]

Seems like the Cash Converters Crew are trading playstations with maggots for votes to win Charlie .

 

[btdg]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already but polling 3 votes in a 10 goal loss is a stitch up, too.

Why? He had 43 touches, 14 CP and kicked a goal, while playing with a team of WAFL standard team mates against the best team in the comp.

Is that better than 30 (mostly uncontested) touches a 3 goals in a team that is steamrolling the opposition?

I don't think that one is bad at all, tbh. That is a bloody good game of football by Sheed

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Midfielders medal - the fact that players like Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

, Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

, Lever and May hardly get a vote is ridiculous.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already but polling 3 votes in a 10 goal loss is a stitch up, too.

In fairness, Sheed did have 43 disposals, 9 marks and 1 goal in that match.

Which considering they got pumped, that’s pretty impressive. I don’t buy into the idea that the best player on ground has to be from the winning team.

To play like that when you’re getting belted is more impressive IMO.

 

[The Sultan]

FFS it is one award, and it is the one that fans and the game heap the most prestige on. This one is voted on by the umpires based on who they think was "best and fairest", there are others voted by the coaches, players, and different media, and its rare that they all have the same player.

 

[SuperSteele22]

The dumbest thing about the Brownlow is that it presumes that the top 3 performances in each game are worth the same votes.

Dominating a top of the table clash full of AA stars only gets you the same number of votes as winning a wooden spoon cripple fight.

Came looking for this comment and it's a pretty valid point imo. Voting system needs a complete overhaul

 

[Kapow!!!]

Classic BigFooty melt. Thoroughly enjoy this time of year for this reason

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The Neale getting 3 votes v Giants needs to investigated imo the AFL needs to sit down with the umpires involved in that game and go through the match tell them how they gave votes the 3 votes to Neale, it wasn't the only weird voting game and you could argue a lot more with the others but this to me was massive "RED FLAG" game.

I don't know what that would achieve, it's a purely subjective award.

 

[danster168]

Lol at Gill trying to add drama. i'm enphasise trying. 95% of the time when he long paused the player in question got the votes. When he was racing through you know the player wasn't getting votes. Also, when the Brisbane envelope was placed last it was clear that Neale was getting the 3. Same when a players team envelope is placed at the start of each round.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Tbh I kinda like that the umps have no access to stats before giving votes. It means more often than not they'll give votes to whomever they subjectively deem to have impacted the game more. It does mean that they're influenced by recency and reputation bias but...all the other awards have that issue as well. It comes with the territory of any subjective award.

The only genuine problem the brownlow methodology has over the others is when the umpires are in too much of a fog to really remember anything.

 

[cutterman]

I think Gulden today is the perfect example of what is wrong with the Brownlow.

He scored a total of 5 votes up until the bye, 5 votes, and he was great in the first half of the season.

The reason he did not get more votes was not because of his performance, but because he was not a well known player going into 2023, not really anyway, he was not talked about much in the AFL media and as a result the umpires didn't really pay attention to him. He only started getting votes when the media started paying a bit of attention to him.

A player who is not well known needs to work twice as hard to get votes as a well known player who is seen as a star, and to me that feels wrong since it should be who was the best 3 players in each match, not who was the best 3 players who the umpires already rate as a very good player.

Betfair's Brownlow predictor had Gulden on 4 votes at the bye, so this is not as egregious as you think it is.

Could set your watch to these meltdowns every year, that along with should ANZAC Day be shared, should State of Origin come back, should the GF be at night. Just take it for what it is, it's not perfect, no award is, and there will always be debate. Games aren't played on a stat sheet.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I don't think it's lost all credibility, I'd say most of us can agree that any of the top 6 could've been argued as potential winners:

1. Lachie Neale
2. Marcus Bontempelli
3. Nick Daicos
4. Zak Butters, Errol Gulden
5. Christian Petracca

Where it gets a bit weird for mine, is when you see a player like Cripps get 22 votes and a player such as Adam Cerra (I'm using our players, as they're the ones I know the most about) get 2. Most Carlton supporters would've said Cerra had the best year of anyone, followed by Charlie, then Cripps.

End of the day, Neale is a deserving winner but Bont, Trac and Daicos are probably more deserving. Not the end of the world.

EDIT - Top 6 by Coaches Votes in 2023 is the same top 6 as above, just in a different order:

 

[Chronz]

View attachment 1813925
Lachie Neale Fan Club.

Slinking weasels. Just look at them, disgusting.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Every year the same old story where people still think the Brownlow is about awarding the best footballer the medal.
The 3 greatest players he sport has seen never won one between them. It’s just a pumped up umpires award with little or no more credibility today than it had 50 years ago.

 

[danster168]

I don't think it's lost all credibility, I'd say most of us can agree that any of the top 6 could've been argued as potential winners:

1. Lachie Neale
2. Marcus Bontempelli
3. Nick Daicos
4. Zak Butters, Errol Gulden
5. Christian Petracca

Where it gets a bit weird for mine, is when you see a player like Cripps get 22 votes and a player such as Adam Cerra (I'm using our players, as they're the ones I know the most about) get 2. Most Carlton supporters would've said Cerra had the best year of anyone, followed by Charlie, then Cripps.

End of the day, Neale is a deserving winner but Bont, Trac and Daicos are probably more deserving. Not the end of the world.

EDIT - Top 6 by Coaches Votes in 2023 is the same top 6 as above, just in a different order:
View attachment 1814277

this is why the coaches award is the benchmark. You never have a questionable coaches votes winner.

 

[WilloTree]

He wasn’t even high possession this year ave 27 d this year

Yes he was.