Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Blue_Fusion]

Just to clarify, calling him the laziest footballer in the competition isn't damaging to his reputation?

It is, but I think we all know that had they spent a couple of minutes with a highlights package of how lazy he is then you'd get the SJW's whinging about how damaging that is to his mental health.

 

[JustaBattler]

True, but that passage had nothing to do with Teague and everything to do with the players.

Williams saw Hopper collect the handball, he was standing on the mark of the player who gave it to him and did not give two hoots.

Cripps was onto Hopper from the get go though, and he went to ground way too easily. Saad too for that matter.

No, that passage was an outcome like all passages fo how the team has been coached to play and what effect that has cumulatively on players during a game and why. Every player can be made to 'look' poor in any specific situation in any game that is just a fact of life - but every team we play that has a developed talent pool finds it way way too easy to find ways to goal - week in week out and the manner in which Carlton players are asked to position themselves and run - sets them up for fail as individuals and as a team.

This ALL on coaching - and the players so far are being supportive of teh coach and putting the blame on themselves or are just confused.

 

[Gethelred]

It is, but I think we all know that had they spent a couple of minutes with a highlights package of how lazy he is then you'd get the SJW's whinging about how damaging that is to his mental health.

... this is dumb. I feel stupid for entertaining this.

 

[Arr0w]

I have not seen the piece of footage personally. I think the point is the unwillingness to work hard defensively, consistently is evidenced over the season. He is not alone. It is easy to see watching Carlton games live. There is also a difference between working space, covering an opponent, and making a genuine effort to defend for your teammates.

There are/were worse offenders of a lack of workrate this year.

Getting back to Brown's comments/analysis/footage regarding Williams in the GWS, it was nothing more than grandstanding, especially saying there were 100 (exaggeration I know) bits of footage, then not presenting any

What was shown was a collective, gameplan driven, instances of many players being out of position and or not working hard enough or smart enough to cover the counter

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

We are a team under the microscope. Williams has been poor all year and should expect the criticism. Maybe as a result of it, he will fire up and play well against the Cows. Martins game on the weekend was much worse, but because he is on less coin he gets less attention. Saad flying under the radar, by playing just barely okay. Of course Hind is playing extremely well every week and StKilda did not even want to keep him.
Back to Zac, he seems like a nice guy from a close family. Supported us from a kid, so excited to be here. I actually do think he will come good and he will repay the clubs faith in him.

 

[17SetMeFree]

Fox have posted Carlton segment on youtube for those without Kayo/Fox

Link here

This one is just as damning

 

[skadoosh]

Saad or Hind? What the stats say about two speed machines

Essendon's bargain recruit has more than made up for the departure of Adam Saad

www.afl.com.au

Hind was an off-season addition that was so explicably linked to Saad's exit that it is impossible to extricate one's story from the other, and the Bomber's numbers are stacking up favourably against Saad in his debut season with the Blues.

Hind averages more disposals (23.4 to Saad's 19.6), has a better kicking efficiency for the season (75 to 72 per cent) and also records more inside-50 entries (4.2 to Saad's 3.7). Hind, brought to the Bombers as a Saad substitute, leads the new Blue for score involvements (averaging 4.6 to 4.1 a game), intercept possessions (6.2 to 5.6) and tackles (2.5 to 2.1). He has also conceded nine goals to Saad's 12.

 

[Stamos]

We are a team under the microscope. Williams has been poor all year and should expect the criticism. Maybe as a result of it, he will fire up and play well against the Cows. Martins game on the weekend was much worse, but because he is on less coin he gets less attention. Saad flying under the radar, by playing just barely okay. Of course Hind is playing extremely well every week and StKilda did not even want to keep him.
Back to Zac, he seems like a nice guy from a close family. Supported us from a kid, so excited to be here. I actually do think he will come good and he will repay the clubs faith in him.

Martin is clearly not fit after the injury.
He should be working up to standard in the 2s.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

No, that passage was an outcome like all passages fo how the team has been coached to play and what effect that has cumulatively on players during a game and why. Every player can be made to 'look' poor in any specific situation in any game that is just a fact of life - but every team we play that has a developed talent pool finds it way way too easy to find ways to goal - week in week out and the manner in which Carlton players are asked to position themselves and run - sets them up for fail as individuals and as a team.

This ALL on coaching - and the players so far are being supportive of teh coach and putting the blame on themselves or are just confused.

What you describe from second sentence onwards is all on coaching.

That passage wasn't. I just refuse to believe players are being told to watch the opposition run past them with the ball in hand and not give any effort to chase, or to over commit to tackles and slip over.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Saad or Hind? What the stats say about two speed machines

Essendon's bargain recruit has more than made up for the departure of Adam Saad

www.afl.com.au

And we gave up pick 8 for him... fmd...

This is why I was so against it and the reason why I was saying you don't give up pick #8 for a half back flanker... Bombers got Hind with picks #67 and #74 oh and they got #77 back for good measure.

I think it goes without saying now that our trade period last year has turned out to be an absolute disaster.

 

[Arr0w]

No, that passage was an outcome like all passages fo how the team has been coached to play and what effect that has cumulatively on players during a game and why. Every player can be made to 'look' poor in any specific situation in any game that is just a fact of life - but every team we play that has a developed talent pool finds it way way too easy to find ways to goal - week in week out and the manner in which Carlton players are asked to position themselves and run - sets them up for fail as individuals and as a team.

This ALL on coaching - and the players so far are being supportive of teh coach and putting the blame on themselves or are just confused.

It's absolutely game based!!

What people fail to realise is the Teague gameplan has players constantly running forward, then back, rinse and repeat.

Other sides shuffle, forward, back, sideways and are setup up with numbers behind the ball, or at the turnover

So when they show that footage of Hooper, Kelly, Whitfield, etc, working past us, our players are already spent, only so many repeat sprints a player has in him

This is highlighted by the numbers, where our collective workrate/sprints, shows that it isn't a lack of workrate

 

[jd2010]

I wish they (our leaders) did less speaking and more doing

 

[JustaBattler]

Arr0w - perfect put down of the nonsense that players aren't trying hard enough or that tehy are lazy - this inept coach/game plan is actually killing them and making them look stupid - an absolute disgraceful waste of talent and goodwill.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Pretty damning no wonder we get scored against so heavily in red time.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I saw that and must say that at Gws he was never like that ..... something must be going on in his head because he does look unfit and disinterested.... he’s a better footballer than he’s shown this year

Welcome to carlton! This is why judging our list is ******* hard. We make players play so far under their own capabilities....

 

[blues4flag]

Welcome to carlton! This is why judging our list is ******* hard. We make players play so far under their own capabilities....

Perhaps, but he doesn't look fit at all. No surprise he's struggling given the shape he's in.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Perhaps, but he doesn't look fit at all. No surprise he's struggling given the shape he's in.

That's all part of it. What other club allows such standards.

 

[blues4flag]

Pretty sad state of affairs when I'm agreeing with Joey Montagna on First Crack (just watched it). "They've (Carlton) got a lot of half back flankers, but no-one that can really defend."
Actually.....I find myself agreeing with the majority of journos & experts when they talk about us this year. Scary times indeed when that is happening.

Hopefully this makes people appreciate why Plowman is such an important member of our 22, and why he constantly finishes top 5 in our B&F. Your average supporter only notices him when he loses a contest, and are completely oblivious that he enables the others to play their attacking games. Not holding my breath...

That said, I can't help but feel that Saad and Williams are a massive downgrade on Simpson and Daisy. For all their talent and flair, they're completely lacking the hunger and tenacity that the other two displayed week in, week out. Simmo and Daisy certainly wouldn't have complained about having to defend when required.

 

[Thrawn]

Criticise a player all you want but Browne loses me when he says stuff like “Don’t worry, there’s about 100 pieces of vision we’ve left on the cutting room floor. We could’ve gone through it for the next half an hour and showed it. We could’ve really hurt his reputation." What a ridiculously stupid and lazy comment to make. And they wonder why mental health problems are rife amongst AFL players...

Oh please.

His rep has been hurt already with his lazy play. He isn't wrong.

I'm sure Williams doesn't need you holding his hand like an errant toddler. If he can't cop criticism considering his stature and paypacket, then maybe footy isn't the game for him.

 

[blues4flag]

That's all part of it. What other club allows such standards.

Absolutely, but it's an indictment on him that he thinks it fit to return in that state after a massive pay-rise.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Absolutely, but it's an indictment on him that he thinks it fit to return in that state after a massive pay-rise.

Yeah but footy players are generally pretty stupid. They're like teenagers that never grew up a lot of them, give them an inch of leeway and they take a mile. I am furious with the way he's preparing himself but the biggest issue there is the club that's allowed it to happen and then picked him, reinforcing a behaviour and preparation state that is not good enough. Imagine that.

My best player (played for valencia) turned up to training late before Round 1. I benched them for the game. Was never late after that, training efforts went through the roof and game day was brilliant. Actually became a driver of standards as opposed to an I'm the best player here I don't really need to do as much as others.

They respond quickly, footballers, it's part of how they got to the top level in the first place. Which is a positive, like Melbourne, it turns really fast. So I'm just left with the club, who aren't driving standards properly. With proper accountability mechanisms in place to 'guide' the players standards and attitudes.

 

[DangerousD]

And we gave up pick 8 for him... fmd...

This is why I was so against it and the reason why I was saying you don't give up pick #8 for a half back flanker... Bombers got Hind with picks #67 and #74 oh and they got #77 back for good measure.

I think it goes without saying now that our trade period last year has turned out to be an absolute disaster.

So surprised by this player, where has he come from, it’s crazy, also no criticism of the Saints for letting him go for nothing.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So surprised by this player, where has he come from, it’s crazy, also no criticism of the Saints for letting him go for nothing.

They did what we do. Played him out of pos and when he wasn't performing put him to the scrap heap.

No way * would've thought he'd have the impact he's having though. But.. let's see how he goes next year and so on... Sometimes players come to a club full of energy and motivated to prove a point then they taper off. Butler a good example. Teague would be another if you go back some years.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Arr0w - perfect put down of the nonsense that players aren't trying hard enough or that tehy are lazy - this inept coach/game plan is actually killing them and making them look stupid - an absolute disgraceful waste of talent and goodwill.

I'd put it down to both, but much more so the coaching/game plan.

I think the real issue with players is the lack of motivation. It was clear as day to me on the weekend that Teague has definitely lost the players.

The running numbers are there, but the intent isn't. Those tackle numbers are a result of setup and positioning but also how many slip?

But there's nowhere to hide for Williams. I've seen enough, in fact I'd seen enough way earlier in the season to know he wasn't anywhere near as fit as he needed to be.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'd put it down to both, but much more so the coaching/game plan.

I think the real issue with players is the lack of motivation. It was clear as day to me on the weekend that Teague has definitely lost the players.

The running numbers are there, but the intent isn't. Those tackle numbers are a result of setup and positioning but also how many slip?

But there's nowhere to hide for Williams. I've seen enough, in fact I'd seen enough way earlier in the season to know he wasn't anywhere near as fit as he needed to be.

I like Williams - I think in the right game plan he, like a few other underperforming genuine A graders would be killing it.