Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
myblueroan said:
That's what killed the music industry so it doesn't auger well.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, as what passes for "music" today is a synthesized tuneless chant by some robotic creature who cannot sing live & has no idea of how to write a song or play an instrument, while the music industry executives sit back and make heaps of $$$, and are somehow able to sell all this tripe to the masses....hey, that sounds a lot like like Gil & Shocking, so maybe they are wasting their talents and need to step up to the big league!!! Then again Gil is not that flash at picking so called musical talent.....cold meatloaf anyone???o_O
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Original Moody Blue said:
You missed it Arrow....You are living in a world of make believe.
Click to expand...

Get back to the facts Moody rather than playing the man, it was a genuine question

At what point in the vision, time stamp, was it highlighted that Williams didn't work to cover a man or area?

I am not suggesting Williams played his part on the weekend, or that he has been good this year.
 
Arr0w said:
Get back to the facts Moody rather than playing the man, it was a genuine question

At what point in the vision, time stamp, was it highlighted that Williams didn't work to cover a man or area?

I am not suggesting Williams played his part on the weekend, or that he has been good this year.
Click to expand...
He is a lazy player and I have been saying from early in the season. I watched the game, and saw him walking instead of running, not picking up loose men, going to a contest when he should have stayed back. What did Gary Lyon say, we left a ton of footage on the cutting room floor because there was so much of it. They were 100% correct in their assessment. GWS worked him over and they knew his deficiencies.

When a triple premiership player and one of the most courageous players in AFL history calls out a player, you pay attention.
 
Orange crush said:
I saw that and must say that at Gws he was never like that ..... something must be going on in his head because he does look unfit and disinterested.... he’s a better footballer than he’s shown this year
Click to expand...
I have seen it many times in soccer. They sign a huge contract for 5 or 6 years then mentally switch off. Don't forget he was playing in a team where players worked for each other, and his deficiencies were being protected.
 
Original Moody Blue said:
He is a lazy player and I have been saying from early in the season. I watched the game, and saw him walking instead of running, not picking up loose men, going to a contest when he should have stayed back. What did Gary Lyon say, we left a ton of footage on the cutting room floor because there was so much of it. They were 100% correct in their assessment. GWS worked him over and they knew his deficiencies.

When a triple premiership player and one of the most courageous players in AFL history calls out a player, you pay attention.
Click to expand...

I will take you back again.

At what point did Brown show, Williams not working to cover a man or space?

Can you or someone pinpoint the timestamp, as I did not see it in that vision, nor do I believe it was highlighted
 
KnaveyBlue said:
The majority of the footage was more damning of Martin than Williams. Shouldn't have been playing.

Brown was probably the first to really publicly drive home the obvious tho - Williams has taken massive coin, shown up unfit, and doesn't/can't work hard enough.
Click to expand...

Yeap, exactly the case. No issue with Brown highlighting Williams's poor season, but to grandstand, by suggesting there were a 100 pieces on the editing floor of Williams not working to cover a man or space in the GWS game, then not show one instance, was strange
 
Arr0w said:
Yeap, exactly the case. No issue with Brown highlighting Williams's poor season, but to grandstand, by suggesting there were a 100 pieces on the editing floor of Williams not working to cover a man or space in the GWS game, then not show one instance, was strange
Click to expand...
Pretty sure he supported us when he was a kid. There were some deliberate fire in the belly towards those comments for sure.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Arr0w said:
I will take you back again.

At what point did Brown show, Williams not working to cover a man or space?

Can you or someone pinpoint the timestamp, as I did not see it in that vision, nor do I believe it was highlighted
Click to expand...

You are correct, the actual footage they showed didn't make the point they were trying to make - apart from William's lack of relative leg speed

however I can recall numerous examples of Williams looking lost in defense and moving exactly the opposite to where he should be moving - the greater point being made was the ease by which GWS were allowed to transition the ball through the midfield- Whitfield literally running past 6 Carlton players jogging to nowhere in particular- happens week in week out-there is no systematic defensive movement or accountability - between teh zones transiitoning between attack and defense.

Another obvious issue that has been going on all year is our HFF allow their HBF to enter into center bounce area as outlets - they don't follow their man - they allow overlap running and easy exits - week in week out - another structural flaw in basic defensive systems - Carlton allow the opposition to create outnumbered situations all over the park- and this is partly effort and mostly system.

Another example they highlighted was the premature spread away from contests that the midfield is coached to employ - as soon as a Carlton player gets possession - everyone just turns their back and runs away to spread - which allows opposition defenses to close the contested area and block exits- because there are no nearby options - and this causes turnover after turnover - with Calton players running to nowhere whilst opposition players are all together and running tighter patterns and constantly outnumbering and out pressuring Carlton players when we do have possession!

The problem at Carlton is the same problem that has been there for over a year now - and that is pathetic structure and game style which plays into opposition hands. This is why the team looks like a bunch of individuals doing individual things- there is very little connection between the players and even less connect between the various areas of the ground.


For crying out loud - none of this is new news and yet despite all the resources/evidence/results/feedback, the current coaching setup seems to be oblivious to the obvious flaws in the way Carlton wants to play.

When amateurs sans the resources the Club has can comment with specific evidence-based certainty based on over 20 games worth of vision now- not one week or two weeks - it points to serious issues in the coaching box and even more serious issues with senior management leadership from head of football - who is supposed to make sure as an independent voice the same errors are not repeated over and over again - which points to serious issues about the management of the whole football department - starting from the CEO's call on who he picked to run the place.

The review is about formally addressing the obvious nonsense on display on the field week in week out and finding Hopefully the reasons why such an uncompetitive game plan has been allowed to be maintained.

Finally - the players' repetition of the same we need to get better/there are no single reasons/we need to put it all together is damning evidence that the system doesn't work - because the players themselves don't know how to fix things - they are at a loss.
 
JustaBattler said:
You are correct, the actual footage they showed didn't make the point they were trying to make - apart from William's lack of relative leg speed

however I can recall numerous examples of Williams looking lost in defense and moving exactly the opposite to where he should be moving - the greater point being made was the ease by which GWS were allowed to transition the ball through the midfield- Whitfield literally running past 6 Carlton players jogging to nowhere in particular- happens week in week out-there is no systematic defensive movement or accountability - between teh zones transiitoning between attack and defense.

Another obvious issue that has been going on all year is our HFF allow their HBF to enter into center bounce area as outlets - they don't follow their man - they allow overlap running and easy exits - week in week out - another structural flaw in basic defensive systems - Carlton allow the opposition to create outnumbered situations all over the park- and this is partly effort and mostly system.

Another example they highlighted was the premature spread away from contests that the midfield is coached to employ - as soon as a Carlton player gets possession - everyone just turns their back and runs away to spread - which allows opposition defenses to close the contested area and block exits- because there are no nearby options - and this causes turnover after turnover - with Calton players running to nowhere whilst opposition players are all together and running tighter patterns and constantly outnumbering and out pressuring Carlton players when we do have possession!

The problem at Carlton is the same problem that has been there for over a year now - and that is pathetic structure and game style which plays into opposition hands. This is why the team looks like a bunch of individuals doing individual things- there is very little connection between the players and even less connect between the various areas of the ground.


For crying out loud - none of this is new news and yet despite all the resources/evidence/results/feedback, the current coaching setup seems to be oblivious to the obvious flaws in the way Carlton wants to play.

When amateurs sans the resources the Club has can comment with specific evidence-based certainty based on over 20 games worth of vision now- not one week or two weeks - it points to serious issues in the coaching box and even more serious issues with senior management leadership from head of football - who is supposed to make sure as an independent voice the same errors are not repeated over and over again - which points to serious issues about the management of the whole football department - starting from the CEO's call on who he picked to run the place.

The review is about formally addressing the obvious nonsense on display on the field week in week out and finding Hopefully the reasons why such an uncompetitive game plan has been allowed to be maintained.

Finally - the players' repetition of the same we need to get better/there are no single reasons/we need to put it all together is damning evidence that the system doesn't work - because the players themselves don't know how to fix things - they are at a loss.
Click to expand...

Sick of saying it, players running forward to anticipate teammate possessions, rather than helping the situation. Similar has been highlighted in the Saints this year

My greatest concern regarding the GWS game, it seemed to me that the real lack of intent by the players, might suggest that Teague has lost a number of them

This week is pivotal, not for the season, but to the outcomes before going into next year
 
JustaBattler said:
You are correct, the actual footage they showed didn't make the point they were trying to make - apart from William's lack of relative leg speed
Click to expand...

Apart from when Hopper ran straight past him then proceeded to side step the Captain and the other boom recruit...

It's embarrassing. These 3 take up around 2.2Mill in our cap and they all got schooled by Hopper...
 
Arr0w said:
Sick of saying it, players running forward to anticipate teammate possessions, rather than helping the situation. Similar has been highlighted in the Saints this year

My greatest concern regarding the GWS game, it seemed to me that the real lack of intent by the players, might suggest that Teague has lost a number of them

This week is pivotal, not for the season, but to the outcomes before going into next year
Click to expand...

Teague has cemented too much of what I call a bluff and bluster game style - pretty much relying on some sort of quick ball movement to fast-spreading but unconnected player spread to try and score fast and big. Other people call this style of play- one-way running.

The benefits of this attacking style is that when / if all goes well you do score quickly and heavily - and ironically the best example of the benefits of this style was evidenced in the game against Geelong last year and also in the game against Richmond in round one this year.

The cost of this attacking style were also on display in the same game against Geelong last year and also in round one this year - when as soon as opposition coaches woke up to the joe the goose style - all they did to adjust and run over the top of Carlton was to make the ground smaller , concentrate midfield defensive play into a congested contested situations with numbers and then run straight through an unmanned and disconnected corridor.

Opposition sides aren't focusing on our spread they are exploiting it by closing off Carlton's ability to deliver to spread causing turnovers in situations where they are already set with numbers and exits - repeat over and over and over again.

This is why Collingwood smashed us - all they did was bottle up exits and then move the ball almost effortlessly through the center to leading marks and Plowman gets blamed for the loss or fast forward to repeat games where if not Plowman then SPS and if not SPS then Stocker....that left side pocket leading space has been Carlton's tell all year - and is the space that corridor entries from every team have exploited all year. It isn't the absence of a lockdown small defender that has been the problem - it is the easy entries handed on a plate to the opposition who are all now just copying the same formula to beat us - easy.

The good news is that our good players are still very good players- the bad news is that the game style and tactics make them all either easy targets or unable to combine to effectively and efficiently for 4 quarters- they are being made to look very ordinary by the same game plan that they are being asked to play - it is a kind of forced unaccountable football that they are being asked to play - it is rubbish.

Dont know if Teague has lost the players - it is more likely to me anyway that the players are trying their best to play a game plan that sets them up to fail.
 
Blue_Fusion said:
Brown clearly said he's just verbalising it... left the footage on the cutting room floor in order to not damage his reputation.

He's not going to make up a bold statement like that.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, calling him the laziest footballer in the competition isn't damaging to his reputation?
 
Blue_Fusion said:
Apart from when Hopper ran straight past him then proceeded to side step the Captain and the other boom recruit...

It's embarrassing. These 3 take up around 2.2Mill in our cap and they all got schooled by Hopper...
Click to expand...

There will always be moments when opposition players do brilliant things and our game style allows so much space and time for opposition players to play uncontested football that against skillful teams we will get cut to pieces and run ons get easier to execute against us - because the space Teague allows all over the park is ridiculous.
 
JustaBattler said:
You are correct, the actual footage they showed didn't make the point they were trying to make - apart from William's lack of relative leg speed

however I can recall numerous examples of Williams looking lost in defense and moving exactly the opposite to where he should be moving - the greater point being made was the ease by which GWS were allowed to transition the ball through the midfield- Whitfield literally running past 6 Carlton players jogging to nowhere in particular- happens week in week out-there is no systematic defensive movement or accountability - between teh zones transiitoning between attack and defense.

Another obvious issue that has been going on all year is our HFF allow their HBF to enter into center bounce area as outlets - they don't follow their man - they allow overlap running and easy exits - week in week out - another structural flaw in basic defensive systems - Carlton allow the opposition to create outnumbered situations all over the park- and this is partly effort and mostly system.

Another example they highlighted was the premature spread away from contests that the midfield is coached to employ - as soon as a Carlton player gets possession - everyone just turns their back and runs away to spread - which allows opposition defenses to close the contested area and block exits- because there are no nearby options - and this causes turnover after turnover - with Calton players running to nowhere whilst opposition players are all together and running tighter patterns and constantly outnumbering and out pressuring Carlton players when we do have possession!

The problem at Carlton is the same problem that has been there for over a year now - and that is pathetic structure and game style which plays into opposition hands. This is why the team looks like a bunch of individuals doing individual things- there is very little connection between the players and even less connect between the various areas of the ground.


For crying out loud - none of this is new news and yet despite all the resources/evidence/results/feedback, the current coaching setup seems to be oblivious to the obvious flaws in the way Carlton wants to play.

When amateurs sans the resources the Club has can comment with specific evidence-based certainty based on over 20 games worth of vision now- not one week or two weeks - it points to serious issues in the coaching box and even more serious issues with senior management leadership from head of football - who is supposed to make sure as an independent voice the same errors are not repeated over and over again - which points to serious issues about the management of the whole football department - starting from the CEO's call on who he picked to run the place.

The review is about formally addressing the obvious nonsense on display on the field week in week out and finding Hopefully the reasons why such an uncompetitive game plan has been allowed to be maintained.

Finally - the players' repetition of the same we need to get better/there are no single reasons/we need to put it all together is damning evidence that the system doesn't work - because the players themselves don't know how to fix things - they are at a loss.
Click to expand...
The players take no responsibility. Structures aside, they are a lazy and immature group who expect others to do the work.
Walsh, and Weitering are the two hardest workers and it shows. Eddie gives it his all but his best is behind him, but like all good professionals, he is grooming replacing himself with Owies. Harry has done all he can do. Cripps just seems to be going backwards.
 
Arr0w said:
I will take you back again.

At what point did Brown show, Williams not working to cover a man or space?

Can you or someone pinpoint the timestamp, as I did not see it in that vision, nor do I believe it was highlighted
Click to expand...

I have not seen the piece of footage personally. I think the point is the unwillingness to work hard defensively, consistently is evidenced over the season. He is not alone. It is easy to see watching Carlton games live. There is also a difference between working space, covering an opponent, and making a genuine effort to defend for your teammates.
 
JustaBattler said:
There will always be moments when opposition players do brilliant things and our game style allows so much space and time for opposition players to play uncontested football that against skillful teams we will get cut to pieces and run ons get easier to execute against us - because the space Teague allows all over the park is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

True, but that passage had nothing to do with Teague and everything to do with the players.

Williams saw Hopper collect the handball, he was standing on the mark of the player who gave it to him and did not give two hoots.

Cripps was onto Hopper from the get go though, and he went to ground way too easily. Saad too for that matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gethelred
Welcome Carlton Fantasy Footy/Supercoach thread - 2024 Edition
2 3
Replies
56
Views
3K
JuddgementDay
JuddgementDay
Neese
Universal Love Footy Related Things we are still cranky about -
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
212
Views
7K
agro
agro
Aphrodite
News Gather Round 2024 - What you need to know
Replies
0
Views
259
Aphrodite
Aphrodite
Jimmae
  • Sticky
VFL 2024 - Reserves Game Day discussion Rnds 2 - 21 (Merged threads)
12 13 14 15 16
Replies
393
Views
16K
SkyhorseTamer
SkyhorseTamer
ferrisb
  • Poll
Competitions 2024 Carlton goal-kicking comp
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
140
Views
5K
HereComesJuddy
HereComesJuddy
skadoosh
News Carlton's 2024 Leadership Group
Replies
15
Views
705
My Hat
My Hat
katmanblue
Carlton Hall of Fame 2024 - 18th March 2024
Replies
11
Views
682
Jatz
Jatz

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top