Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Coops93]

Might not even make 6 years. He held the club over a barrel and carlton folded which is extremely disappointing.

How did he hold the club over a barrel exactly?

 

[FRUMPY]

How did he hold the club over a barrel exactly?

They gave him 6 years when ideally they didnt want to give him 6 years

 

[Coops93]

They gave him 6 years when ideally they didnt want to give him 6 years

They didn't have to give him that if they didn't want to.

 

[Accidental genius]

Might not even make 6 years. He held the club over a barrel and carlton folded which is extremely disappointing.

Difficult position for the club. If they don’t negoti

They gave him 6 years when ideally they didnt want to give him 6 years

Reported as being on less money though so no big deal

 

[FRUMPY]

They didn't have to give him that if they didn't want to.

thats a simple way to look at things - but i agree, they didnt have to and shouldnt have. By the time he is 30 he will be next to useless

 

[FRUMPY]

Difficult position for the club. If they don’t negoti

Reported as being on less money though so no big deal

its a big deal if he is useless at age 30-31-32......still a fair chunk of money for someone who wont be a very good player at that age.

 

[goreds]

Did anyone listen to Leigh Matthew’s on 3aw tonight? His considered comments about Cripps were concerning. He thinks that Cripps has lost a lot in the last two years and that he is no longer a champion. I’ve always found Mathews to be virtually spot on when talking about anything football related.

If anyone understands time lines and look at what changed in his life 2 years ago… Anyone know??

 

[gunslingr]

Fisher’s is worse.

He’s gonna get rid of it whenever the world’s greatest shave rolls around

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I'm really starting to think that Crippa reached a point where he has checked out a bit.

The guy has constantly had issues with his body the last couple of years.
He has had some tough circumstances in his personal life.
Club captaincy weighing down on him.
Cops a lot of s**t when we lose. How was that clown who had a go at his gf earlier in the year?

That is quite a bit for a young bloke to deal with.

This is why we see undisciplined acts such as when he took a shot at the ump with the glasses gesture, he's having a laugh after probably our most devastating loss in years - there's no way Cripps from 2 years ago would do that. He'd be sitting there like Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

was.

Unlike some, I believe him when he said he took a hair cut for the benefit of the list going forward. His heart is in the right place. His head isn't and you couldn't blame him for losing a bit of faith in Russell and Teague.

A new environment might be exactly what he needs. A new coach, with some new assistants and a solid direction for him and others to believe in.

Taking the captaincy off him and giving it to Weiters is going to happen as well. He's set for a big off season.

EDIT: One thing I'll add is, to anyone who doubts him - if Ollie Wines could turn things around, I'd be backing Crippa to as well...

 

[CJMB]

I like the fish hairdo
He reminds me of a mini sticks running around

Twig

 

[CJMB]

I'm really starting to think that Crippa reached a point where he has checked out a bit.

The guy has constantly had issues with his body the last couple of years.
He has had some tough circumstances in his personal life.
Club captaincy weighing down on him.
Cops a lot of sh*t when we lose. How was that clown who had a go at his gf earlier in the year?

That is quite a bit for a young bloke to deal with.

This is why we see undisciplined acts such as when he took a shot at the ump with the glasses gesture, he's having a laugh after probably our most devastating loss in years - there's no way Cripps from 2 years ago would do that. He'd be sitting there like Sam Walsh was.

Unlike some, I believe him when he said he took a hair cut for the benefit of the list going forward. His heart is in the right place. His head isn't and you couldn't blame him for losing a bit of faith in Russell and Teague.

A new environment might be exactly what he needs. A new coach, with some new assistants and a solid direction for him and others to believe in.

Taking the captaincy off him and giving it to Weiters is going to happen as well. He's set for a big off season.

EDIT: One thing I'll add is, to anyone who doubts him - if Ollie Wines could turn things around, I'd be backing Crippa to as well...

Might be a bit of deja vu happening with the way the season is unfolding. He's had a couple of years of injury troubles, his form is down, the club is a bit of a dumpster fire...

If next year we have some some new voices (coaches) and a revised game plan that plays to our strengths, off-field/football dept having a shake up, him (and others) getting a good and full-length preseason, maybe even being relieved of the responsibility of captaincy, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets back closer to his best. Maybe not '19 MVP levels but back to being an A grader.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If anyone understands time lines and look at what changed in his life 2 years ago… Anyone know??

David Teague took over. There have been rumours that he doesn't agree with the role Teagues given him/doesn't get on with him for quite some time now.

 

[katmanblue]

I like the fish hairdo
He reminds me of a mini sticks running around

Are we talking about fishsticks again?

 

[goreds]

Off field…

Moved out of the ‘boys’ house and the lifestyle that came with it…

Happened to another player who lost his way and ended up “wanting” to go back to SA…

We all make choices in life but some need to enjoy life before getting tied down…

There is no rush in life as we only get one of them…

I’m not going to be popular after this but sometimes things need to said…

 

[Coops93]

David Teague took over. There have been rumours that he doesn't agree with the role Teagues given him/doesn't get on with him for quite some time now.

Has there? I haven't seen them.

I also attribute some of his form to Teague taking over, though. The timeline matches up. Having said that he was a little patchy before Teague took over but he still had some immense games in-between the average ones, but he's openly discussed how he had some MH battles during that period.

 

[branedotorg]

What a bizarre comment. Oscar was more than serviceable in the little game time he's had for us. Is a cheap tall utility who fills a clear list need, absolute no-brainer to give him another year and let him have a proper run at it.

IF he has a back condition i'd be wanting a clear medical report before i offered another contract over say sam weiderman or elliott himmelburg or one of the many other fringe talls who'll be on the market or OOC end of season.

Liked what he offered but we simply can't take a risk on another season where the understudies aren't able to fill the roles if required.

 

[Jimmae]

McDonald performed much better than I expected (in the little we saw of him).

He'd be better than any/most/all of the backup tall options out there. Considerably better than what we've seen from Casboult this year.

I've always been one to argue the last list spots shouldn't be wasted on short-term band-aid solutions. But if fit, McDonald makes a lot of sense for our list and KPP availability. And he isn't that old.

There were better options before, there are better options now. We need renewal at the position, and I'd go so far as to say that Kemp is already ahead in the pecking order there despite the fact that we shouldn't want to use him in a KPD role.

Even if Marchbank is delisted, I would want us to move Parks and OMac on, and look seriously at the FA and DFA market alongside a draft strategy.

 

[forever blue 1]

Are we talking about fishsticks again?

Very very good POTD

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Has there? I haven't seen them.

I also attribute some of his form to Teague taking over, though. The timeline matches up. Having said that he was a little patchy before Teague took over but he still had some immense games in-between the average ones, but he's openly discussed how he had some MH battles during that period.

I don't claim to have inside information about that situation. It has been floated around from some posters with credible histories. Also a few rumour files on reddit etc. Could be nothing to it, could be something to it. We probably won't know until Teague is fired which I believe is immenent. Whatever the case he definitely doesnt look like the same competitor. Laughing after games, his interviews he sounds much less interested in grinding out to a flag, he just seems like hes become a bit numb to it all and goes out trying to do his part instead of carrying the entire club on his back.

 

[ferrisb]

There were better options before, there are better options now. We need renewal at the position, and I'd go so far as to say that Kemp is already ahead in the pecking order there despite the fact that we shouldn't want to use him in a KPD role.

Even if Marchbank is delisted, I would want us to move Parks and OMac on, and look seriously at the FA and DFA market alongside a draft strategy.

I want to agree with you. I don't like recruiting guys who are only ever going to be foot soldiers. And we all know how you feel about footballers who are limited or only there for depth.

We should be recruiting guys with upside. If they make it, great. If they don't, cut your losses and replace with other guys with upside. So I mostly agree with you. But two points...

1) DFA market? Who is going to be better than OMac (or Gibbons, Newnes, Newman etc) in the DFA market?

2) Having OMac means we don't need to rely on Kemp being used as backup KPD. That's the whole point of having 'an OMac' on your list. Arguably, it also means we don't have to give Casboult another year, we don't have to recruit another crappy KPF as backup and possibly even avoid having a surplus ruck on our list JUST as insurance in case TDK AND Pittonet are injured at the same time. Look, I don't think he's an amazing footballer, but if he can save us carrying 2-3 other duds on our list, he's probably worth it IMO.

 

[Blue since 72]

not sure how you'd due diligence robustness............

Haha yeah fair point.

I guess you could look at playing history prior to drafting (in terms of injury history), how they prepare, body type but it's obviously not a guarantee of future longevity.

Have to assume all these things are looked into, maybe we're just unlucky.

Not that I enjoy anyone getting injured but the curse has finally hit Richmond and it's showing.

 

[Mezzoculo]

Christ. We've only had a single debutant this season!?

 

[Gethelred]

Christ. We've only had a single debutant this season!?

Not a terribly significant stat, really. Carroll spent time on the sidelines, Honey debuted last year, Ramsay for whatever reason hasn't debuted, Boyd and Mirkov were picked up midseason and have both been injured for substantial periods of time, Kemp has only just gotten himself right, and Philp both debuted last year and has been injured.

There's been the list reduction, which has seen the overall number of players on the list decline, and the fact that the players we do have who are young have mostly debuted. The only real candidate for promotion who has stayed fit all season is Ramsay; the rest have either debuted already (in their first season), were picked up midseason, have been injured and haven't played nearly enough footy to be considered despite our injury list, or is Kemp and will be debuting soon anyway.

 

[Gethelred]

There were better options before, there are better options now. We need renewal at the position, and I'd go so far as to say that Kemp is already ahead in the pecking order there despite the fact that we shouldn't want to use him in a KPD role.

Even if Marchbank is delisted, I would want us to move Parks and OMac on, and look seriously at the FA and DFA market alongside a draft strategy.

While I agree to an extent, you cannot in consecutive seasons delist 3 KPD's then proceed to delist 2 hybrid KPD's/general defenders and another KPD. You've just completely divested the list in a single area to an outrageous extent, and you would be relying on getting in at least 4 KPP if not 6-8 to ensure that you get at least 2 of AFL standard.

Doing that would be scattergun drafting, and it's not a great way to locate talent. Better off (if you can) trying to get a Grainger-Barrass via trading a first round pick and a player or picking someone via the draft than you are delisting all those players.

 

[Jimmae]

I want to agree with you. I don't like recruiting guys who are only ever going to be foot soldiers. And we all know how you feel about footballers who are limited or only there for depth.

We should be recruiting guys with upside. If they make it, great. If they don't, cut your losses and replace with other guys with upside. So I mostly agree with you. But two points...

1) DFA market? Who is going to be better than OMac (or Gibbons, Newnes, Newman etc) in the DFA market?

2) Having OMac means we don't need to rely on Kemp being used as backup KPD. That's the whole point of having 'an OMac' on your list. Arguably, it also means we don't have to give Casboult another year, we don't have to recruit another crappy KPF as backup and possibly even avoid having a surplus ruck on our list JUST as insurance in case TDK AND Pittonet are injured at the same time. Look, I don't think he's an amazing footballer, but if he can save us carrying 2-3 other duds on our list, he's probably worth it IMO.

Except he's just another dud. Melbourne have been at a knife's edge with getting rid of him for years.

I'll have to go over the current OoC list to figure out better options, but there always is. The trick is simply who is happy to be rotating in and out of the senior team, or play as backup/development.

While I agree to an extent, you cannot in consecutive seasons delist 3 KPD's then proceed to delist 2 hybrid KPD's/general defenders and another KPD. You've just completely divested the list in a single area to an outrageous extent, and you would be relying on getting in at least 4 KPP if not 6-8 to ensure that you get at least 2 of AFL standard.

Doing that would be scattergun drafting, and it's not a great way to locate talent. Better off (if you can) trying to get a Grainger-Barrass via trading a first round pick and a player or picking someone via the draft than you are delisting all those players.

We're under review because there were some dumb decisions made. I've got no problem with reversing out of them given the limited impact to the senior side.

Also, why wasn't this discussion moved to the list management thread?