Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[SkyhorseTamer]

Well ofcourse I have, because not every team can lose. Just expanding on the likely reaction if these teams lose.
Fagan & Beveridge may have something to worry about unless one of them makes the GF.
Geelong will probably outlast GWS as the emotional win against Sydney may take its toll.

Better to examine other clubs shortcomings than having to continually read about Carlton's failures.

Fagan has nothing to worry about at all, not even close, either does beveridge. Beveridge loses and he's lost in brisbane in a final, not a huge deal. His team plays for him and have a relatively recent premiership. They wont make changes,they'll be back next season.

My guess is Scott is safe as houses too, look at his win/loss. He can easily defend a loss to the board. It's an old team, ran out of legs etc.

Cameron is probably the most in trouble of the lot.

Overall though I highly doubt any coach thats made it to here is in trouble at all. Except maybe Hinkley, you might be right there. Port fans don't seem hugely passionate about him, haven't for a while.

 

[Bluebag13]

Former Blues player charged with possession of ice, proceeds of crime

Ron De Iulio, who played more than 100 games with the Blues during the 1990s, was arrested on Swanston Street on June 18.

www.theage.com.au

Hope he gets through all this.
Was a wonderful person who I met a during his playing days, never would have imagined this could happen to him.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Fagan has nothing to worry about at all, not even close, either does beveridge. Beveridge loses and he's lost in brisbane in a final, not a huge deal. His team plays for him and have a relatively recent premiership. They wont make changes,they'll be back next season.

My guess is Scott is safe as houses too, look at his win/loss. He can easily defend a loss to the board. It's an old team, ran out of legs etc.

Cameron is probably the most in trouble of the lot.

Overall though I highly doubt any coach thats made it to here is in trouble at all. Except maybe Hinkley, you might be right there. Port fans don't seem hugely passionate about him, haven't for a while.

Cameron was re-signed earlier in the year. Cannot fault his performance this year. I would be looking at his assistants and see if we can poach any of them as they have done a remarkable job.

Is Scott up for a rebuild? Don't think so. If Port get knocked out, do not be surprised to see Hinkley take over at Geelong. Hinkley has been through a rebuild so he knows what it takes. Scott has had everything given to him on a plate.

 

[efektor]

Oh and little birdie told me that Kouta is going to be part of the Carlton Now ticket.....

Would probably boot Andrew Russell and start shelling his nutralife smoothies as a way to fix our injury problems if he ever got on the board.

 

[efektor]

Well given all the current boards failures it wouldn't be that hard to top them but the Carlton Now ticket is really going to focus most on is engaging more with the members, better transparency etc. Instead of having power hungry out of touch businessman who know nothing about football and are as charismatic as a wet paper bag your going to get Elliott style people who have actually will show some love and passion for this club. The members will get a say on board appointments once again. The autocratic constitutional amendments designed to keep the same old dinosaurs in power like their some sort of royal family will be gone. We will once again chase the best players and coaches instead of duds like Bolton and Teague. We will create a winning environment once again where the players will feel proud to wear the Carlton jumper and give 200% on the field EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF EVERY GAME. Yes its about winning games of footy but what differentiates Carlton Now from the current board is that they will put in the right plans actually achieve it as well as make Carlton an AFL powerhouse that us members will be proud to support again. Past legends will be treated with respect and you might even see a surprise change of course surrounding the Princes Park redevelopment. From what I've heard this pretty much sums up Carlton Now. If this isn't appealing to vote for then I dont know what is

Lol this tells us nothing.

“Oh we’re really passionate and going to do the right thing by the fans.... yadda yadda yadda”

But you’re not actually saying anything. Just gonna get the best players, coaches, gonna make Carlton great again. John Elliot is the dinosaur that screwed us up in the first place with his brown paper bags.
Until you actually outline a proper action plan and nominate some individuals that actually have a clue then everyone is just gonna assume you lot are full of it.
You saying Kouta is on board does nothing to convince me either. The man will do anything for a quick buck, including being a MLM Herbalife shill.

 

[efektor]

I can put my bottom dollar on it that if Carlton Now gets elected Ross Lyon will be coaching us in 2022 given the few discussions he's had have been with several people on the ticket. The only reason he isn't pushing harder for the job atm is because the board spill hasn't happened yet. It was through meeting with several Carlton Now people that reignited his flame for coaching. The only reason he made up the Leigh Matthews story was so the key details of the spill wouldn't be released until Teague was sacked. If the current board remains in power though Ross will most likely turn the job down (or they'll reject him anyway given 2 members of the current board aren't keen on him).

Ross Lyon actually met with John Elliott about a month ago mate, once all this dies down I'm sure he'll reveal it to the media whether he becomes coach or not

If this happens we’re ****ed

 

[mediumsizered]

can't think of another player - and it's not a challenge - that made such an impact in so few games..........peter bosustow, a highlights package personified...

He did Jezza type things without the overall polish of Jezza.

 

[gbatman]

The Malthouse article is damning. When one of the best football minds ever tells a bunch of business people who's understanding of football is probably no better than the average fan that the list and player contracts are stuffed and they don't believe him then that's just incredibly damning on what is wrong with Carlton. Inevitably Malthouse would be prove right but our board didn't want to hear it.

This sort of conflict between coach and board is just so damning on our club. We pushed really hard to get Malthouse because we knew he had such high credentials and when he told the club things needed to be done the board wouldn't back him in and support him, things went to shit.

It backs up what people have been saying on here and elsewhere for years, that we are too reliant and overly dictated by powerbrokers and we badly lack genuine football people on our board.

A lot of people are deluded and find it more comfortable to believe Malthouse fu**ed Carlton because that's the comfortable thing to believe. The truth far more uncomfortable to believe. Our Board F**ked Ratten over then it f**ked Malthouse over and they f***ed over the whole club over. That's what happened.

If you don't back in your coach you fail badly. That goes for the board, the football department, the leadership group and the players. Malthouse was the right person for the job, he was a great person for the job, he was bang on the money that we needed to rebuild and that's been proven. The board went against that until it was forced to rebuild and low and behold Malthouse was proven right.

Looking back none of our coaches have been backed properly by the board, leadership group or players fully. None have been supplied with a top football department. This is why coaches are probably a little hesitant on signing with us. They need to know we have changed.

The board need to but out of the football department and listen when they are told and give when they are asked. That would be a start when it comes to making sure that the next coach is supported properly. Last thing we need is to f**k over the next bloke.

 

[manang magoos]

The Malthouse article is damning. When one of the best football minds ever tells a bunch of business people who's understanding of football is probably no better than the average fan that the list and player contracts are stuffed and they don't believe him then that's just incredibly damning on what is wrong with Carlton. Inevitably Malthouse would be prove right but our board didn't want to hear it.

This sort of conflict between coach and board is just so damning on our club. We pushed really hard to get Malthouse because we knew he had such high credentials and when he told the club things needed to be done the board wouldn't back him in and support him, things went to sh*t.

It backs up what people have been saying on here and elsewhere for years, that we are too reliant and overly dictated by powerbrokers and we badly lack genuine football people on our board.

A lot of people are deluded and find it more comfortable to believe Malthouse fu**ed Carlton because that's the comfortable thing to believe. The truth far more uncomfortable to believe. Our Board F**ked Ratten over then it f**ked Malthouse over and they f***ed over the whole club over. That's what happened.

If you don't back in your coach you fail badly. That goes for the board, the football department, the leadership group and the players. Malthouse was the right person for the job, he was a great person for the job, he was bang on the money that we needed to rebuild and that's been proven. The board went against that until it was forced to rebuild and low and behold Malthouse was proven right.

Looking back none of our coaches have been backed properly by the board, leadership group or players fully. None have been supplied with a top football department. This is why coaches are probably a little hesitant on signing with us. They need to know we have changed.

The board need to but out of the football department and listen when they are told and give when they are asked. That would be a start when it comes to making sure that the next coach is supported properly. Last thing we need is to f**k over the next bloke.

Mick Malthouse ****ed the club full stop and now there’s talk of Buckley another Collingwood bloke to stuff our club up no thank you very much

 

[gbatman]

Mick Malthouse f’ed the club full stop and now there’s talk of Buckley another Collingwood bloke to stuff our club up no thank you very much

How? We moved heaven and earth to get him, he seemed to think we might be alright, after a closer look he realised we were f*ucked and when he told the board the pretty much stopped him doing what he wanted and needed to do, because as always, our board got involved with our football department rather than staying out of it and supporting the people in it.

This is what happened to Carlton.

Ratten coached ok but built a really really poor culture and developed the players as such, conditional players who were used to having too much control, not disciplined enough and refused to get out of their comfort zone and were not professional enough. Not entirely his fault, he was a rookie coach who needed a senior assistant and far more support around him but he never got it. Malthouse inherited a team who were too old to change (apart from some like Bryce Gibbs) who could not handle a coach who coached properly. He also had a leadership group who were poor leaders and didn't do what they had to do to succeed, back the coach, something Malthouse had at Collingwood and pretty much every premiership team has had going back to the dawn of time. He had no chance of success with us.

Oh, and then there is the list. I think Malthouse had just one player under 25 who could play and that was a very raw Paddy Cripps. If years and years of Hughes/Rogers recruiting wasn't bad enough have a look at our player development, which stems from a lack of leadership and coaches not staffed with high quality assistants. He had no chance at success with us.

Then there are the player contracts. At the time I was so frustrated why we weren't filling our many holes with senior players. Turns out we couldn't, we were bursting at the seams. We had no list manager! How do you think we could be any good without a list manager? The coach never had a chance, couldn't improve the list because we screwed up our player salaries. Malthouse said it, SOS said it, we were stuffed. We lost players because of it and failed to build a team because of it.

Malthouse brings these issues to the board who don't want to hear it. All of a sudden we have a board not supporting a coach.

We sack Malthouse, bring in Bolton, don't support him at all and SOS comes to our list and does exactly what Malthouse was pushing for! How dumb are we! Malthouse wants to rebuild, we tell him no, SOS wants to rebuild and away we go. And you really think Malthouse was the problem?

You can believe all the bullshit conspiracy theories about Malthouse you like but they are just that, bullshit.

Malthouse was an elite coach and still was at the time who went to a basketcase of a club run by incompetent amateurs. He was made to look a fool by us and made the scapegoat to cover up a far greater and scarier problem that has never been fixed and that is the board, the footy department and the leadership group.

We bury our heads in the sand over this but the fact is, as it has always been, it wasn't the coach who screwed us it's the club itself and the board and footy department are the main issues here and it goes way back.

If I was coaching prospect it would scare the shit out of me that we have not got any of this right yet.

 

[Broadside]

If I was coaching prospect it would scare the sh*t out of me that we have not got any of this right yet.

I think you’re spot on. I can’t stand Mick but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He had very recently coached Collingwood to a flag, he knew what a successful team and club looked like.

I quoted your last paragraph as I think Sayers gets this and is doing something about it. But it could be a bumpy ride. If you want to make omelettes you have to break a few eggs.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The Malthouse article is damning. When one of the best football minds ever tells a bunch of business people who's understanding of football is probably no better than the average fan that the list and player contracts are stuffed and they don't believe him then that's just incredibly damning on what is wrong with Carlton. Inevitably Malthouse would be prove right but our board didn't want to hear it.

This sort of conflict between coach and board is just so damning on our club. We pushed really hard to get Malthouse because we knew he had such high credentials and when he told the club things needed to be done the board wouldn't back him in and support him, things went to sh*t.

It backs up what people have been saying on here and elsewhere for years, that we are too reliant and overly dictated by powerbrokers and we badly lack genuine football people on our board.

A lot of people are deluded and find it more comfortable to believe Malthouse fu**ed Carlton because that's the comfortable thing to believe. The truth far more uncomfortable to believe. Our Board F**ked Ratten over then it f**ked Malthouse over and they f***ed over the whole club over. That's what happened.

If you don't back in your coach you fail badly. That goes for the board, the football department, the leadership group and the players. Malthouse was the right person for the job, he was a great person for the job, he was bang on the money that we needed to rebuild and that's been proven. The board went against that until it was forced to rebuild and low and behold Malthouse was proven right.

Looking back none of our coaches have been backed properly by the board, leadership group or players fully. None have been supplied with a top football department. This is why coaches are probably a little hesitant on signing with us. They need to know we have changed.

The board need to but out of the football department and listen when they are told and give when they are asked. That would be a start when it comes to making sure that the next coach is supported properly. Last thing we need is to f**k over the next bloke.

So Carlton made it known that they needed a coach to put the finishing touches on the team that had been playing finals but not beating top 4 sides, and Malthouse tells them they need to rebuild the list, and they hired him anyway?

Why do you believe Malthouse's timeframes on this? He only started talking rebuild at the end of 2014. He had already started to offload players so nobody was stopping him from making changes.

No, he took the job thinking he could has us challenging. Our players did not respond well to his coaching and it was only when he let us play Ratten's gameplan during a game, that we showed good signs.

Mick is not a victim here.

 

[KnobHead]

So Carlton made it known that they needed a coach to put the finishing touches on the team that had been playing finals but not beating top 4 sides, and Malthouse tells them they need to rebuild the list, and they hired him anyway?

Why do you believe Malthouse's timeframes on this? He only started talking rebuild at the end of 2014. He had already started to offload players so nobody was stopping him from making changes.

No, he took the job thinking he could has us challenging. Our players did not respond well to his coaching and it was only when he let us play Ratten's gameplan during a game, that we showed good signs.

Mick is not a victim here.

To go further when he joined, Malthouse said he was “happy with the list.” He didn’t walk into a basket case. We’d just played finals under Ratten.

Only thing that has genuine merit in the article is that some players were overpaid. But SOS fixed that.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[azlou]

The only thing I find comforting about Malthouse is it shows a crap coach with a great list can win a premiership
So we don’t have to get the best just a good one and with our list we have got a shot

 

[thebluenewdeal]

The only thing I find comforting about Malthouse is it shows a crap coach with a great list can win a premiership
So we don’t have to get the best just a good one and with our list we have got a shot

You are overrating our list

 

[gbatman]

I think you’re spot on. I can’t stand Mick but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He had very recently coached Collingwood to a flag, he knew what a successful team and club looked like.

I quoted your last paragraph as I think Sayers gets this and is doing something about it. But it could be a bumpy ride. If you want to make omelettes you have to break a few eggs.

He was proven. Things don't change, you don't go from a great coach to the worst like that. Club had and continued to have serious issues.

Malthouse boarded Carlton like so many boarded the Titanic. We were the titanic, looked fancy but built with flaws and destined to sink.

Blaming Malthouse is like denying the severity of Covid. People want it to be true so bad they believe it because it's far less depressing than the truth.

We have to back Sayers, I'm feeling good about him, but we will see.

So Carlton made it known that they needed a coach to put the finishing touches on the team that had been playing finals but not beating top 4 sides, and Malthouse tells them they need to rebuild the list, and they hired him anyway?

Why do you believe Malthouse's timeframes on this? He only started talking rebuild at the end of 2014. He had already started to offload players so nobody was stopping him from making changes.

No, he took the job thinking he could has us challenging. Our players did not respond well to his coaching and it was only when he let us play Ratten's gameplan during a game, that we showed good signs.

Mick is not a victim here.

Team had finished 9th 2 years in a row. Best 22 was about that quality. It had a lot of holes, it couldn't fill them because of an out of hand salary cap because it had no list manager. That is on the board and footy department.

The board had the idea we were at the finishing touches stage, we were so far from that, we were decaying and going backwards. The boards unwillingness to step away from this idea and listen to someone who actually knows their shit was a massive issue. This is a board not backing the coach.

I believe Malthouse because on here ITK posters were reporting the same thing. Malthouse wanting to rebuild, conflicts with the board. Thought nothing of it at the time but now here we are.

Wait, what? Malthouse getting rid of players? He was coach, not list manager. But the board never implemented one... and we couldn't afford to keep our players because of... well not Malthouse. And no, the board maintained he was there to win, not rebuild. He wasn't allowed to rebuild and lose, SOS and Bolton were, until they weren't.

Our players didn't respond well because we had a weak leadership group who didn't back the coach and push the team. Because of how they were developed. Ratten didn't develop discipline or leadership. We had a soft, inconsistent and conditional team who were used to having equal authority over the coach and playing "fun" football. That's why we were known as one way runners, if the players didn't want to do something then they didn't and the leaders did nothing about it.

He took the job because we had talent and if we could add to it, sure, we'd go forwards but... he couldn't fx the leadership and cultural issues because the players were too far gone and he couldn't build the list because the recruiting, development and leadership was rubbish and the salary cap was blown out. We needed kids coming through and mature players coming in but had none of that.

Ratten's game plan was fine, Malthouse's game plan was fine, playing group was mediocre and leadership didn't exist and support either coach.

Have a look at how teams winning flags played then and now, we didn't play like that, we didn't play like Malthouse's Collingwood. Because it's hard footy, driven by hard leaders and we didn't and still don't have that. Ratten's game plan failed, Malthouse's game plan failed. Players were the reason. Forget the game plan, was never the problem.

How does Malthouse go from being able to rebuild teams, develop players, play in grand finals and win flags and come to us a few years after two straight grand final appearances, one being a premiership and all of a sudden he's a terrible coach. How do we have 6 coaches in 20 years who are all fail. Fair dinkum!!!

 

[Gethelred]

How? We moved heaven and earth to get him, he seemed to think we might be alright, after a closer look he realised we were f*ucked and when he told the board the pretty much stopped him doing what he wanted and needed to do, because as always, our board got involved with our football department rather than staying out of it and supporting the people in it.

This is what happened to Carlton.

Ratten coached ok but built a really really poor culture and developed the players as such, conditional players who were used to having too much control, not disciplined enough and refused to get out of their comfort zone and were not professional enough. Not entirely his fault, he was a rookie coach who needed a senior assistant and far more support around him but he never got it. Malthouse inherited a team who were too old to change (apart from some like Bryce Gibbs) who could not handle a coach who coached properly. He also had a leadership group who were poor leaders and didn't do what they had to do to succeed, back the coach, something Malthouse had at Collingwood and pretty much every premiership team has had going back to the dawn of time. He had no chance of success with us.

Oh, and then there is the list. I think Malthouse had just one player under 25 who could play and that was a very raw Paddy Cripps. If years and years of Hughes/Rogers recruiting wasn't bad enough have a look at our player development, which stems from a lack of leadership and coaches not staffed with high quality assistants. He had no chance at success with us.

Then there are the player contracts. At the time I was so frustrated why we weren't filling our many holes with senior players. Turns out we couldn't, we were bursting at the seams. We had no list manager! How do you think we could be any good without a list manager? The coach never had a chance, couldn't improve the list because we screwed up our player salaries. Malthouse said it, SOS said it, we were stuffed. We lost players because of it and failed to build a team because of it.

Malthouse brings these issues to the board who don't want to hear it. All of a sudden we have a board not supporting a coach.

We sack Malthouse, bring in Bolton, don't support him at all and SOS comes to our list and does exactly what Malthouse was pushing for! How dumb are we! Malthouse wants to rebuild, we tell him no, SOS wants to rebuild and away we go. And you really think Malthouse was the problem?

You can believe all the bullshit conspiracy theories about Malthouse you like but they are just that, bullshit.

Malthouse was an elite coach and still was at the time who went to a basketcase of a club run by incompetent amateurs. He was made to look a fool by us and made the scapegoat to cover up a far greater and scarier problem that has never been fixed and that is the board, the footy department and the leadership group.

We bury our heads in the sand over this but the fact is, as it has always been, it wasn't the coach who screwed us it's the club itself and the board and footy department are the main issues here and it goes way back.

If I was coaching prospect it would scare the sh*t out of me that we have not got any of this right yet.

I do enjoy the editing of history.

How many times do we have to go over the players Mick lost? Do we have to discuss how Yarran, Robinson, Betts, Garlett, Henderson, Waite, Setanta all left due to Mick? Do we have to go through his along the boundary game that did not suit our list or his captain picks in Liam Jones, Jason Tutt, and Daisy Thomas (what happens when Mick played list manager)?

Do we have to discuss how he didn't show up to the club due to his book tour to early preseason? How he had us hire David Buttifant, who set our match fitness back 5 years? Do we have to discuss how his trading away of an entire forward line ruined our scoring until 2019?

Did we have other problems? Absolutely. But while we made our own bed, Malthouse made SOS's hardline cut and slash necessary. In another world, we'd have retained players, rebuilt without leaking players, revamped development and list management without needing to do so whilst rebuilding the entire ****ing list.

Malthouse is the reason for 2017 and 2018. If you want to defend him further, might I suggest you do so without actively rewriting history?

 

[DangerousD]

Fagan has nothing to worry about at all, not even close, either does beveridge. Beveridge loses and he's lost in brisbane in a final, not a huge deal. His team plays for him and have a relatively recent premiership. They wont make changes,they'll be back next season.

My guess is Scott is safe as houses too, look at his win/loss. He can easily defend a loss to the board. It's an old team, ran out of legs etc.

Cameron is probably the most in trouble of the lot.

Overall though I highly doubt any coach thats made it to here is in trouble at all. Except maybe Hinkley, you might be right there. Port fans don't seem hugely passionate about him, haven't for a while.

As a neutral, I have concerns of Fagans ability to get the most out of the Lions, they have a very young and talented side, a good home ground advantage and have had a very good injury run, yet they have underachieved, straight sets exit in 2019, choked last year and IMO will get knocked out in straight sets again.

Obviously they could win and even win it and we will see, but another straight sets exit will not look good.

Beveridge is lucky his team played out of their skin to win the GF, as his highest H&A finish is 5th, which was this year, I don’t rate him either.

 

[My Hat]

He was proven. Things don't change, you don't go from a great coach to the worst like that. Club had and continued to have serious issues.

Malthouse boarded Carlton like so many boarded the Titanic. We were the titanic, looked fancy but built with flaws and destined to sink.

Blaming Malthouse is like denying the severity of Covid. People want it to be true so bad they believe it because it's far less depressing than the truth.

We have to back Sayers, I'm feeling good about him, but we will see.



Team had finished 9th 2 years in a row. Best 22 was about that quality. It had a lot of holes, it couldn't fill them because of an out of hand salary cap because it had no list manager. That is on the board and footy department.

The board had the idea we were at the finishing touches stage, we were so far from that, we were decaying and going backwards. The boards unwillingness to step away from this idea and listen to someone who actually knows their sh*t was a massive issue. This is a board not backing the coach.

I believe Malthouse because on here ITK posters were reporting the same thing. Malthouse wanting to rebuild, conflicts with the board. Thought nothing of it at the time but now here we are.

Wait, what? Malthouse getting rid of players? He was coach, not list manager. But the board never implemented one... and we couldn't afford to keep our players because of... well not Malthouse. And no, the board maintained he was there to win, not rebuild. He wasn't allowed to rebuild and lose, SOS and Bolton were, until they weren't.

Our players didn't respond well because we had a weak leadership group who didn't back the coach and push the team. Because of how they were developed. Ratten didn't develop discipline or leadership. We had a soft, inconsistent and conditional team who were used to having equal authority over the coach and playing "fun" football. That's why we were known as one way runners, if the players didn't want to do something then they didn't and the leaders did nothing about it.

He took the job because we had talent and if we could add to it, sure, we'd go forwards but... he couldn't fx the leadership and cultural issues because the players were too far gone and he couldn't build the list because the recruiting, development and leadership was rubbish and the salary cap was blown out. We needed kids coming through and mature players coming in but had none of that.

Ratten's game plan was fine, Malthouse's game plan was fine, playing group was mediocre and leadership didn't exist and support either coach.

Have a look at how teams winning flags played then and now, we didn't play like that, we didn't play like Malthouse's Collingwood. Because it's hard footy, driven by hard leaders and we didn't and still don't have that. Ratten's game plan failed, Malthouse's game plan failed. Players were the reason. Forget the game plan, was never the problem.

How does Malthouse go from being able to rebuild teams, develop players, play in grand finals and win flags and come to us a few years after two straight grand final appearances, one being a premiership and all of a sudden he's a terrible coach. How do we have 6 coaches in 20 years who are all fail. Fair dinkum!!!

Two things can both be true. Maybe Malthouse was poor AND the board & football department were poor.

 

[DangerousD]

So Carlton made it known that they needed a coach to put the finishing touches on the team that had been playing finals but not beating top 4 sides, and Malthouse tells them they need to rebuild the list, and they hired him anyway?

Why do you believe Malthouse's timeframes on this? He only started talking rebuild at the end of 2014. He had already started to offload players so nobody was stopping him from making changes.

No, he took the job thinking he could has us challenging. Our players did not respond well to his coaching and it was only when he let us play Ratten's gameplan during a game, that we showed good signs.

Mick is not a victim here.

I don’t have a quote, but I remember a press conference after a loss, when the board r President had spoken about the need for us to rebuild, Mick was asked about it and gave a good response, he said the time to rebuild was 6 months ago, why didn’t they say that then?

Im paraphrasing here, but that was the gist. It made the board sound dumb.

In regards to him stuffing the club, when he was moved on, we went through the biggest rebuild ever, of any club, you know how bad we were, I can’t blame a coach for that, that’s years of mismanagement and horrible drafting.

I find him an easy target, an outsider who was past his best, but it’s easier to be mad at him, than to be mad at loyal, popular Carlton people.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

He was proven. Things don't change, you don't go from a great coach to the worst like that. Club had and continued to have serious issues.

Malthouse boarded Carlton like so many boarded the Titanic. We were the titanic, looked fancy but built with flaws and destined to sink.

Blaming Malthouse is like denying the severity of Covid. People want it to be true so bad they believe it because it's far less depressing than the truth.

We have to back Sayers, I'm feeling good about him, but we will see.



Team had finished 9th 2 years in a row. Best 22 was about that quality. It had a lot of holes, it couldn't fill them because of an out of hand salary cap because it had no list manager. That is on the board and footy department.

The board had the idea we were at the finishing touches stage, we were so far from that, we were decaying and going backwards. The boards unwillingness to step away from this idea and listen to someone who actually knows their sh*t was a massive issue. This is a board not backing the coach.

I believe Malthouse because on here ITK posters were reporting the same thing. Malthouse wanting to rebuild, conflicts with the board. Thought nothing of it at the time but now here we are.

Wait, what? Malthouse getting rid of players? He was coach, not list manager. But the board never implemented one... and we couldn't afford to keep our players because of... well not Malthouse. And no, the board maintained he was there to win, not rebuild. He wasn't allowed to rebuild and lose, SOS and Bolton were, until they weren't.

Our players didn't respond well because we had a weak leadership group who didn't back the coach and push the team. Because of how they were developed. Ratten didn't develop discipline or leadership. We had a soft, inconsistent and conditional team who were used to having equal authority over the coach and playing "fun" football. That's why we were known as one way runners, if the players didn't want to do something then they didn't and the leaders did nothing about it.

He took the job because we had talent and if we could add to it, sure, we'd go forwards but... he couldn't fx the leadership and cultural issues because the players were too far gone and he couldn't build the list because the recruiting, development and leadership was rubbish and the salary cap was blown out. We needed kids coming through and mature players coming in but had none of that.

Ratten's game plan was fine, Malthouse's game plan was fine, playing group was mediocre and leadership didn't exist and support either coach.

Have a look at how teams winning flags played then and now, we didn't play like that, we didn't play like Malthouse's Collingwood. Because it's hard footy, driven by hard leaders and we didn't and still don't have that. Ratten's game plan failed, Malthouse's game plan failed. Players were the reason. Forget the game plan, was never the problem.

How does Malthouse go from being able to rebuild teams, develop players, play in grand finals and win flags and come to us a few years after two straight grand final appearances, one being a premiership and all of a sudden he's a terrible coach. How do we have 6 coaches in 20 years who are all fail. Fair dinkum!!!

We finished 9th once before Malthouse came and we had a poor season injury wise. We finished 9th the second time under Malthouse. So what you are saying is that Malthouse agreed to come to get us into the top 4, then changed his mind after a year.

Little bit of an each way bet by Mick, don't you think?

 

[JustaBattler]

Always amazes me how short people's memories are. Malthouse lied his way into the job by saying all that needed to be done was lift the lows a bit and keep the highs where they were ...less than a year later he was mumbling about the need for a total rebuild...and his idea of that was letting pick 7 go for Jackshyte and some MarshmellowWhiley from GWS to joing his perennial injured Daisy Thomas oh and lets not forget choosing Boekhurst - the same bloke who bad mouthed the CLub and Malthouse on Twitter before being listed...as a MASSIVE reach because Malthouse fancied himas a playaaa...

Malthouse was a TOTAL disaster from the get go.

Our bad luck started with the knifing of Ratten for 'underperforming' 3 years finals in a row from wooden spooners.

and I can tell anyone for a fact- that half the Board were against Malthouse in the first place - it took arm twisting from Swann whispering into the ears of Mathieson who twisted Sticks' arm to get it done.

I thought the Club had moved on from all that with the reset and rebuild commenced by Trigg and MLG - how wrong was I.

and here we are again.

Senior coaches with proven pedigree in Clarkson and Lyon - one in need of a break and the other eager to come - but somehow this twisted Club's logic calls for a two month selection process- just when 20 playters are waiting to re sign or not , just before the draft and trade period ...

The media have every right to laugh and point fingers and laugh some more.

Fingers crossed because right now it all looks a bit bleakish.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Always amazes me how short people's memories are. Malthouse lied his way into the job by saying all that needed to be done was lift the lows a bit and keep the highs where they were ...less than a year later he was mumbling about the need for a total rebuild...and his idea of that was letting pick 7 go for Jackshyte and some MarshmellowWhiley from GWS to joing his perennial injured Daisy Thomas oh and lets not forget choosing Boekhurst - the same bloke who bad mouthed the CLub and Malthouse on Twitter before being listed...as a MASSIVE reach because Malthouse fancied himas a playaaa...

Malthouse was a TOTAL disaster from the get go.

Our bad luck started with the knifing of Ratten for 'underperforming' 3 years finals in a row from wooden spooners.

and I can tell anyone for a fact- that half the Board were against Malthouse in the first place - it took arm twisting from Swann whispering into the ears of Mathieson who twisted Sticks' arm to get it done.

I thought the Club had moved on from all that with the reset and rebuild commenced by Trigg and MLG - how wrong was I.

and here we are again.

Senior coaches with proven pedigree in Clarkson and Lyon - one in need of a break and the other eager to come - but somehow this twisted Club's logic calls for a two month selection process- just when 20 playters are waiting to re sign or not , just before the draft and trade period ...

The media have every right to laugh and point fingers and laugh some more.

Fingers crossed because right now it all looks a bit bleakish.

Isn't Lyon just an example of the Malthouse decision you wish we didn't make? Half the board is against him. Malthouse was appointed without a process and so would Lyon have been.

I wouldn't worry about the timeframes here. We may be waiting for someone who is still in the finals and we have a List Manager in place anyway so all that preparation work is being done. I think we will have a coach by trade period.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don’t have a quote, but I remember a press conference after a loss, when the board r President had spoken about the need for us to rebuild, Mick was asked about it and gave a good response, he said the time to rebuild was 6 months ago, why didn’t they say that then?

Im paraphrasing here, but that was the gist. It made the board sound dumb.

In regards to him stuffing the club, when he was moved on, we went through the biggest rebuild ever, of any club, you know how bad we were, I can’t blame a coach for that, that’s years of mismanagement and horrible drafting.

I find him an easy target, an outsider who was past his best, but it’s easier to be mad at him, than to be mad at loyal, popular Carlton people.

That was at the end of 2014. Mick had been in the job two years and we were getting worse. Of course he's going to go the rebuild route and even said he needed to be extended because he's the man to do it and the players needed certainty.

Why on earth would we back him in when he took us backwards and then called for a rebuild?

As for needing a rebuild after he left, well of course. Our good players had turned to shit under him and left and we had bugger all currency left.

 

[AceAndy]

Isn't Lyon just an example of the Malthouse decision you wish we didn't make? Half the board is against him. Malthouse was appointed without a process and so would Lyon have been.

I wouldn't worry about the timeframes here. We may be waiting for someone who is still in the finals and we have a List Manager in place anyway so all that preparation work is being done. I think we will have a coach by trade period.

And whom would that be ?