Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Macca43]

GWS beat both Tigers and Cats, yet missed the finals

Goes to show a single, of in their case 2 games, doesn't dictate a season

Facts v opinion/desire

We will make finals this year, which will probably be based on beating sides around and or below us. Knocking over top 4 teams will be a bonus

"Dictate" V "Advantage"

GWS also lost to teams who placed 18th, 17th & 16th (as well as losing to fellow bottom of the 8 contenders, St Kilda, Bulldogs & Melbourne) while still finishing a game and percentage clear of us in 10th. Getting the wins against top 4 sides kept them in contention despite poor performances along the way.

Beating top 4 sides gives you cover for 1 or two slip ups not a free pass to finals.

 

[Arr0w]

Dogs made finals, by beating only 1 top 8 side in the Eagles, lose that and beat us, they make it anyway

1 game doesn't dictate a season

Beat the sides around and below you, you make finals, anything more is a bonus, fact

 

[Macca43]

Dogs made finals, by beating only 1 top 8 side in the Eagles, lose that and beat us, they make it anyway

1 game doesn't dictate a season

Beat the sides around and below you, you make finals, anything more is a bonus, fact

Anyway, training reports anyone?

Lose that and don't beat us and they don't.

Dictate V advantage

 

[JustaBattler]

tbh - I dont think last year's finish in H&A says much about this year's outlook - for a lot of teams.

 

[Arr0w]

tbh - I dont think last year's finish in H&A says much about this year's outlook - for a lot of teams.

Exactly, new season, new lists, different levels of fitness and maturity

No excuses for us this year

 

[CJMB]

Dogs made finals, by beating only 1 top 8 side in the Eagles, lose that and beat us, they make it anyway

1 game doesn't dictate a season

Beat the sides around and below you, you make finals, anything more is a bonus, fact

No, but it certainly helps to 'steal' points from those above. the old "8 point game" stuff...

Beating the sides around and below you doesn't guarantee finals. What if you're got a crap draw so get stuck with more games against top4/8 sides than bottom 6/8?

We play Port, Pies, Giants, Dockers & Suns twice, with the first 3 teams finishing above us last year. Beat all the teams below us (last year) and none above and we've got 9 wins. Add Demons & Giants, so winning every game against a team that finished outside the 8 & we're only at 12 games.

We know we'll drop games to sides around/below us, it's inevitable. Sneaking a win or two against the Tigers, Lions, Cats, Power, Eagles, Saints, Dogs, Pies could be the difference.

 

[Metalcrusher]

No, but it certainly helps to 'steal' points from those above. the old "8 point game" stuff...

Beating the sides around and below you doesn't guarantee finals. What if you're got a crap draw so get stuck with more games against top4/8 sides than bottom 6/8?

We play Port, Pies, Giants, Dockers & Suns twice, with the first 3 teams finishing above us last year. Beat all the teams below us (last year) and none above and we've got 9 wins. Add Demons & Giants, so winning every game against a team that finished outside the 8 & we're only at 12 games.

We know we'll drop games to sides around/below us, it's inevitable. Sneaking a win or two against the Tigers, Lions, Cats, Power, Eagles, Saints, Dogs, Pies could be the difference.

TBH this is where I think we sit ... 12 wins.

 

[Macca43]

No, but it certainly helps to 'steal' points from those above. the old "8 point game" stuff...

Beating the sides around and below you doesn't guarantee finals. What if you're got a crap draw so get stuck with more games against top4/8 sides than bottom 6/8?

We play Port, Pies, Giants, Dockers & Suns twice, with the first 3 teams finishing above us last year. Beat all the teams below us (last year) and none above and we've got 9 wins. Add Demons & Giants, so winning every game against a team that finished outside the 8 & we're only at 12 games.

We know we'll drop games to sides around/below us, it's inevitable. Sneaking a win or two against the Tigers, Lions, Cats, Power, Eagles, Saints, Dogs, Pies could be the difference.

Exactly.

Throw in that top 4 sides are often more vulnerable at the start of the year off later start to training and the momentum we would get going into critical games against fellow 5th to 12th sides in the next 3 weeks (Collingwood, Freo and the Suns) and round 1 becomes a big game indeed.

 

[Arr0w]

No, but it certainly helps to 'steal' points from those above. the old "8 point game" stuff...

Beating the sides around and below you doesn't guarantee finals. What if you're got a crap draw so get stuck with more games against top4/8 sides than bottom 6/8?

We play Port, Pies, Giants, Dockers & Suns twice, with the first 3 teams finishing above us last year. Beat all the teams below us (last year) and none above and we've got 9 wins. Add Demons & Giants, so winning every game against a team that finished outside the 8 & we're only at 12 games.

We know we'll drop games to sides around/below us, it's inevitable. Sneaking a win or two against the Tigers, Lions, Cats, Power, Eagles, Saints, Dogs, Pies could be the difference.

Every win is important no matter who the opposition

Poor GWS, gained an advantage twice by beating the top 2 sides, yet that didn't dictate finals

Strong consistency does though

 

[Earls Smother]

GWS beat both Tigers and Cats, yet missed the finals

Goes to show a single, of in their case 2 games, doesn't dictate a season

Facts v opinion/desire

We will make finals this year, which will probably be based on beating sides around and or below us. Knocking over top 4 teams will be a bonus

You can paint that anyway you like.

Collingwood snuck into the finals by half a game, but they had to beat top sides Geelong, St. Kilda, Bulldogs, and pinch a draw with Richmond to do it (2 of those obviously grand finalists).

4 points is 4 points, doesn't matter who you get them against if they add up to enough to get you in.

 

[JustaBattler]

The only way to 'come of age' as a side is to beat sides that are suppossed to be better and smash sides that are suppossed to be around or below you.

for me the standout performances from last year were:

1. coming back against Melbourne from 42 points down - despite the loss
2. smashing Geelong at their cheat ground - despite letting them get back in 4th
3. losing on the bell to Port
4. smashing the Doggies
5. smashing Suns

the red light alarm bell games for me were

1. getting totally outplayed on the outside by Saints and Collingwood
2. allowing Brisbane to score from outside 50 - twice - when the game was in the balance
3. capitulating to Adelaide and Hawthorn - despicable losses

Teague has the players to match any finals side now - might sound harsh but I agree with Arr0w - no excuses losing between the arcs game anymore OR having a dysfunctional forward line chock a block with match winners - it is all on coaching now.

 

[Arr0w]

You can paint that anyway you like.

Collingwood snuck into the finals by half a game, but they had to beat top sides Geelong, St. Kilda, Bulldogs, and pinch a draw with Richmond to do it (2 of those obviously grand finalists).

4 points is 4 points, doesn't matter who you get them against if they add up to enough to get you in.

That's a given, but go back to my original statement

"Whether we beat the Tigers or not, it won't dictate whether we make finals or not"

Did we miss finals last year on the back of losing to the Tigers, or dropping games to , Hawks, Demons, GWS and Crows?

Anyway, I hear Williams is ripping up training, excited given the work he can do in all 3 arcs

 

[Blue__Balls]

Every game is important, yada yada yada...

But if we're talking an expectation of finishing 5th-8th, then the most important games are those against the sides that end up finishing 7th-12th. They're the genuine 8-pt games.

Naturally, you also need to win enough other games to be in that bracket, which involves actually beating (and beating well) most of the bottom 6 sides, and being competitive against, and ideally beating, some of the top 4 sides. When it comes to securing a finals spot or missing out, there will generally be a couple of games against mid-tier sides that you look back on and go "thank god we beat [9th]" or "if we'd only beat [7th]".

 

[CJMB]

TBH this is where I think we sit ... 12 wins.

Yeah, and I'd be pretty happy with that.

Was more a point that to hit 12, we're going to have to beat a couple of the top sides because it's almost certain we'll drop games to sides below us. And if we're talking ladder positions, 'taking' 4 points from a side above us, particularly if they're a side that's within reach of us on the ladder, can have more of an affect to our position (re: finals) than beating an 'also ran' in rebuild mode.

 

[CJMB]

Every win is important no matter who the opposition

Poor GWS, gained an advantage twice by beating the top 2 sides, yet that didn't dictate finals

Strong consistency does though

Why poor GWS? They had a bad year. That's on them. Good that they beat a couple of good sides and if they'd not dropped a heap of easy ones then that might have really made a difference.

Consistency is great and I'm sure we're working hard on it. But we know we're not going to win every game against teams below us. From 11th, If we drop games to 2 teams below us then we're going to have to win another 5 games against teams above us to get us to that '12 wins' marker.

 

[thylacine60]

Tell you this for free, I'm done turning up against these clowns and either getting a jump and waiting for the inevitable capitulation or falling behind and getting praised for a brave comeback and loss. The time is now that we own and play a brand of footy that is much less opposition centric and much more Carlton Football Club. Message ends.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Now that's the right stuff.

Rather they lose and get embarassed than the well done fellas nearly had them.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Tell you this for free, I'm done turning up against these clowns and either getting a jump and waiting for the inevitable capitulation or falling behind and getting praised for a brave comeback and loss. The time is now that we own and play a brand of footy that is much less opposition centric and much more Carlton Football Club. Message ends.

We have the tools to do it ...

 

[Blue and Blue]

We have the tools to do it ...

All the tools play for other clubs mate....

 

[ferrisb]

Tell you this for free, I'm done turning up against these clowns and either getting a jump and waiting for the inevitable capitulation or falling behind and getting praised for a brave comeback and loss. The time is now that we own and play a brand of footy that is much less opposition centric and much more Carlton Football Club. Message ends.

I would have paid for that opinion...

 

[Earls Smother]

That's a given, but go back to my original statement

"Whether we beat the Tigers or not, it won't dictate whether we make finals or not"

Did we miss finals last year on the back of losing to the Tigers, or dropping games to , Hawks, Demons, GWS and Crows?

Anyway, I hear Williams is ripping up training, excited given the work he can do in all 3 arcs

Agree with that.

We will continue to drop games to sides we "shouldn't". Even our '95 side lost to 3rd bottom and 5th bottom. I'd rather be good than consistent

The Dogs showed in 2016 that once you get there, you only have to be consistently good for the 4 weeks that matter.

Geez your digging up an old discussion there "Mr. 3 arcs". An average of just over 3 goals a season leads me to stick to 2 arcs for now

 

[thylacine60]

I'll take Arc de Triomphe...

 

[ferrisb]

Yes, it does. It means that we will have to put 21-1 instead of 22-0 on a plaque.

where is RPCB? And who let Micky Malthouse take over his account?

 

[ferrisb]

I'll take Arc de Triomphe...

Sure thing.

At the roundabout, take the 13th exit...

 

[agro]

Agree with that.

We will continue to drop games to sides we "shouldn't". Even our '95 side lost to 3rd bottom and 5th bottom.

That was by design.