Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[JustaBattler]

You are a good bloke ferrisb and I don't particularly disagree with anything you say - I do disagree with all the backstabbing knifing of Silvagni that I read on here - people with agendas - but hey that is just the way some people are disposed to be I guess.

What I will say is that anyone with any level of managerial professionalism ( ie no one that Carlton had employed over the last 0h 30 years) could have increased Carlton membership - because there are lots of market surveys showing that Carlton has one of the top3 supporter bases in AFL and the largest unsigned potential. people look forwards when considering whether they wish to be part of something or not- just like equity and Bond markets do ( they predict the 12-18 month future) rather than try to dwell on the past - so you are not giving enough credit to Carlton supporters who starting liking what they were seeing - way way before on-field performance was on the board.

So by increased Carlton membership I mean pretty much achieved the SAME results Liddle has by employing the same basic engagement strategies that have been put in place. this is not to detract from Liddle - but instead to place 'a ' Liddle's achievem3nts' in context. the hard work was building a product - ( SOS did that )...Liddle has increased engagement and membership - because people could see something happening that they liked.

Good luck to the rejigged recruiting team and all its moving pieces and all its gobbledegook language disguising politics - but there is no doubt Liddle's agenda wasn't and isn't limited to 'increasing membership' - he will be 'tolerated' for as long as he is adding value to Carlton by way of increased membership numbers and corporate sponsorship - as soon as that slows or doesn't go his way - he will be staring at a less inclined to go with set of masters.

the way he handled SOS has tainted him forever and his henchmen better continue to do good work -because they are a bunch of very ordinary people.

 

[HARKER]

the way he handled SOS has tainted him forever and his henchmen better continue to do good work -because they are a bunch of very ordinary people.

How did he handle SOS? How did SOS handle others? You can't make a call of 'agenda' without putting your hand up for the same reason.
It has nothing to do with agenda (as you say) and all to do with what came about and given SOS had his friends in the right places, why wasn't it Liddle that was shown the door and not SOS?

I'd also want SOS to be still be at the club, but I understand why he isn't. maybe SOS does too.

 

[thylacine60]

Is it like knighthood? This year was the perfect year. No speeches to make.

Still waiting on his response.

 

[Accidental genius]

You are a good bloke ferrisb and I don't particularly disagree with anything you say - I do disagree with all the backstabbing knifing of Silvagni that I read on here - people with agendas - but hey that is just the way some people are disposed to be I guess.

What I will say is that anyone with any level of managerial professionalism ( ie no one that Carlton had employed over the last 0h 30 years) could have increased Carlton membership - because there are lots of market surveys showing that Carlton has one of the top3 supporter bases in AFL and the largest unsigned potential. people look forwards when considering whether they wish to be part of something or not- just like equity and Bond markets do ( they predict the 12-18 month future) rather than try to dwell on the past - so you are not giving enough credit to Carlton supporters who starting liking what they were seeing - way way before on-field performance was on the board.

So by increased Carlton membership I mean pretty much achieved the SAME results Liddle has by employing the same basic engagement strategies that have been put in place. this is not to detract from Liddle - but instead to place 'a ' Liddle's achievem3nts' in context. the hard work was building a product - ( SOS did that )...Liddle has increased engagement and membership - because people could see something happening that they liked.

Good luck to the rejigged recruiting team and all its moving pieces and all its gobbledegook language disguising politics - but there is no doubt Liddle's agenda wasn't and isn't limited to 'increasing membership' - he will be 'tolerated' for as long as he is adding value to Carlton by way of increased membership numbers and corporate sponsorship - as soon as that slows or doesn't go his way - he will be staring at a less inclined to go with set of masters.

the way he handled SOS has tainted him forever and his henchmen better continue to do good work -because they are a bunch of very ordinary people.

Thing is membership could not have grown without the ground work done by Carlton and in particular sos in building a fantastic list. I also think the hiring of Bolton was a great move it got things moving in the right direction with club culture. Liddle is now riding on their coat tails. Club holding him up high atm because the membership numbers are going up and most of sos’s job was pretty much finished.

 

[HARKER]

Thing is membership could not have grown without the ground work done by Carlton and in particular sos in building a fantastic list. I also think the hiring of Bolton was a great move it got things moving in the right direction with club culture. Liddle is now riding on their coat tails. Club holding him up high atm because the membership numbers are going up and most of sos’s job was pretty much finished.

No offence, but you may want to revisit that view in time to come.

1. We're assuming we have a fantastic list. This is not quite the view of people outside of CFC circles. It's just something we here want/need to believe.
2. Bolton a great move? There weren't too many other moves. Not many wanted to come to Carlton ahead of better opportunities elsewhere.
3. Liddle is riding on the coat-tails of what? A failed coaching appointment in Bolton and the pain that came about because of that.
4. Liddle was just lucky because of the failings we had come about earlier?

Come on now. We have to reason a little better than that.

 

[norway blue]

We haven’t proven ourselves yet. So not sure that equates to a brilliant list. We must start marching up now .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

No offence, but you may want to revisit that view in time to come.

1. We're assuming we have a fantastic list. This is not quite the view of people outside of CFC circles. It's just something we here want/need to believe.
2. Bolton a great move? There weren't too many other moves. Not many wanted to come to Carlton ahead of better opportunities elsewhere.
3. Liddle is riding on the coat-tails of what? A failed coaching appointment in Bolton and the pain that came about because of that.
4. Liddle was just lucky because of the failings we had come about earlier?

Come on now. We have to reason a little better than that.

1. Carlton's list is better than it has been in 20 years as far as depth and talent goes - the only thing 'missing' is developed mids and time will fix this.
2. Bolton was a great move- because the bloke hd teh energy and teh guts to take on the thankless task of a full rebuild - it is a feather in his cap that he did and speculating on who could have done a better job given the context is speculation - it wasn't like (as you say) - there were heaps of experienced coaches kicking the door down to be at Carlton.
3. Liddle like any other competent marketing person and manager has made the best out of the situation he was in - and he came in at the perfect time for anyone that has a clue- as I've said, he has done nothing extraordinary just the job expected - the fact that people on here think it is extraordinary just speaks to their general lack of business acumen/experience in these matters
4. Liddle isn't 'lucky' he is a planner.

Liddle has now removed Bolton and SOS - the people that did the heavy lifting all alone - when no one else was there - criticize both as much as you like - but in my books they are both Carlton heroes - they don't have to be perfect to be respected and remembered for doing the heavy lifting and sticking to their rebuild guns.

 

[Accidental genius]

No offence, but you may want to revisit that view in time to come.

1. We're assuming we have a fantastic list. This is not quite the view of people outside of CFC circles. It's just something we here want/need to believe.
2. Bolton a great move? There weren't too many other moves. Not many wanted to come to Carlton ahead of better opportunities elsewhere.
3. Liddle is riding on the coat-tails of what? A failed coaching appointment in Bolton and the pain that came about because of that.
4. Liddle was just lucky because of the failings we had come about earlier?

Come on now. We have to reason a little better than that.

I dint see any reason to wait any longer to know any different. whats going to change from here in?

of course the list is fantastic. There are still a few players that are developing but as a team they are at the stage of learning to gel together to get that cohesion. That is the main thing i see lacking atm.

Bolton was a great move and he had a massive impact on the younger playing group. There is a good reason why they are still together. Boltons poor win loss record was not because he did not know how to win games he wanted to play the kids (part of clubs strategy) to fast track their development but it seems he eventually lost some of the senior players.

Doesn't matter that we sacked/replaced a coach. I dont accept that he was a failed coach. Anyway, the fans could see and were excited about where we are heading. I think they mostly were excited and happy that for the first time carlton were rebuilding the proper way in the modern afl era and that eventually things will turn. Liddle is just adding the cream

Could liddle have done what he is currently doing prior to our rebuild? Zero chance.

I dont see any issues with my reasoning.

 

[Accidental genius]

We haven’t proven ourselves yet. So not sure that equates to a brilliant list. We must start marching up now .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The list is fantastic but they need to gel and work together to make good things happen. Coaching and fitness staff are key participants in this.

 

[Arr0w]

There is no need - as I have heard similar, but you’ve got to realise if you’re going to point a rifle at Bambi (or his mother) around here you need to have it corroborated with two separate independent sources, or be as impeccable as Sir Eric Pearce, Brian Naylor or Peter Hitchener.

From the same source suggesting we should have taken Richards over LOB?

 

[thylacine60]

I dint see any reason to wait any longer to know any different. whats going to change from here in?

of course the list is fantastic. There are still a few players that are developing but as a team they are at the stage of learning to gel together to get that cohesion. That is the main thing i see lacking atm.

Bolton was a great move and he had a massive impact on the younger playing group. There is a good reason why they are still together. Boltons poor win loss record was not because he did not know how to win games he wanted to play the kids (part of clubs strategy) to fast track their development but it seems he eventually lost some of the senior players.

Doesn't matter that we sacked/replaced a coach. I dont accept that he was a failed coach. Anyway, the fans could see and were excited about where we are heading. I think they mostly were excited and happy that for the first time carlton were rebuilding the proper way in the modern afl era and that eventually things will turn. Liddle is just adding the cream

Could liddle have done what he is currently doing prior to our rebuild? Zero chance.

I dont see any issues with my reasoning.

 

[HARKER]

1. Carlton's list is better than it has been in 20 years as far as depth and talent goes - the only thing 'missing' is developed mids and time will fix this.
2. Bolton was a great move- because the bloke hd teh energy and teh guts to take on the thankless task of a full rebuild - it is a feather in his cap that he did and speculating on who could have done a better job given the context is speculation - it wasn't like (as you say) - there were heaps of experienced coaches kicking the door down to be at Carlton.
3. Liddle like any other competent marketing person and manager has made the best out of the situation he was in - and he came in at the perfect time for anyone that has a clue- as I've said, he has done nothing extraordinary just the job expected - the fact that people on here think it is extraordinary just speaks to their general lack of business acumen/experience in these matters
4. Liddle isn't 'lucky' he is a planner.

Liddle has now removed Bolton and SOS - the people that did the heavy lifting all alone - when no one else was there - criticize both as much as you like - but in my books they are both Carlton heroes - they don't have to be perfect to be respected and remembered for doing the heavy lifting and sticking to their rebuild guns.

1. This is our perception and not one particularly in line with the way others see us. For instance people at Richmond feel they've recruited far better than we have, even for the high picks we've had. i.e. Higgins better than O'Brien....RCD better than Stocker.

2. Bolton a great move? How many options did we have? No one wanted to come us and given the net outcome, how was Bolton a great move? He was sacked.

3. Liddle has done nothing extraordinary, He was just lucky. FMD! You can choose to see things through your lens, but facts just don't stack up. Lucky????

These 'considered' views are so simplistic and with no foundation. You have to put more meat on that bone. Show me more meat

 

[agro]

From the same source suggesting we should have taken Richards over LOB?

Keep editing until you get it just right.

 

[gab213]

Their 100th too. So good!! I love how they invite us to their birthday parties!

They have lost to us in every single anniversary game they've played, not just the last 2.

 

[Arr0w]

Keep editing until you get it just right.

No need, has no substance

 

[DangerousD]

You don't think the membership surge has coincided pretty much perfectly with SOS's list build ( which matched his expertise, experience and focus) has anything to do with SOS/Bolton/a better list and membership expectations about a brighter future - OK.

keep chest-puffing though - always amusing.

A CEO who was recruited from a rival club, where his main role was increasing memberships and revenue streams, because our memberships and revenue had been stagnant, comes across and massively increases our membership numbers and revenue, but its the list manager who oversaw a rebuild where we finished stuck on the bottom for 5 years and a coach who in his 3.5 years went backwards every single season who were responsible?

 

[agro]

No need, has no substance

Get yourself another 999 monkeys and lock yourself in a room with 1000 typewriters for 1,000,000 years.

 

[thylacine60]

that's how our game plan got devised, am I right? I mean, am I right?

 

[DangerousD]

What I will say is that anyone with any level of managerial professionalism ( ie no one that Carlton had employed over the last 0h 30 years) could have increased Carlton membership

So what you're saying, is that it was so easy to increase Carlton membership, that anyone could do it, but no one in 30 years could do it.

I do disagree with all the backstabbing knifing of Silvagni that I read on here - people with agendas - but hey that is just the way some people are disposed to be I guess.

Anyone who shares stories that don't fit the messiah narrative some pedal in regards to SOS are back stabbers and have an agenda, but impartial posters like yourself who seem to be diminishing ones achievement to pump up another, don't have one?

 

[JustaBattler]

1. This is our perception and not one particularly in line with the way others see us. For instance people at Richmond feel they've recruited far better than we have, even for the high picks we've had. i.e. Higgins better than O'Brien....RCD better than Stocker.

2. Bolton a great move? How many options did we have? No one wanted to come us and given the net outcome, how was Bolton a great move? He was sacked.

3. Liddle has done nothing extraordinary, He was just lucky. FMD! You can choose to see things through your lens, but facts just don't stack up. Lucky????

These 'considered' views are so simplistic and with no foundation. You have to put more meat on that bone. Show me more meat

Who said Bolton was a great move- I said he did a lot of heavy lifting - few star coaches want to go through a full rebuild - for all the reasons I'm reading on here- people have short memories.

Liddle has done nothing extraordinary - he just has done what anyone with any competence could do. There is not one member who bought a membership and not one corporate sponsor who sponsors "Liddleton". At the same time he has populated the Club with his own chosen grubs who so far have managed to knife Bolton and SOS - can't wait till they start knifing each other - grubs.

No need to change my words I've already spelt it out clearly and succinctly. You and everyone else are entitled to whatever opinion you want - mine happens to be different on this matter.

 

[JustaBattler]

So what you're saying, is that it was so easy to increase Carlton membership, that anyone could do it, but no one in 30 years could do it.



Anyone who shares stories that don't fit the messiah narrative some pedal in regards to SOS are back stabbers and have an agenda, but impartial posters like yourself who seem to be diminishing ones achievement to pump up another, don't have one?

I've got absolutely no interest in anything you have to say - now bugger off peanut.

 

[Metalcrusher]

What have I walked into … the game is on the 10th kids.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

that's how our game plan got devised, am I right? I mean, am I right?

Pretty busy. This troupe also wrote your jokes.

 

[DangerousD]

I've got absolutely no interest in anything you have to say - now bugger off peanut.

You should have applied to be the CEO years ago and we would have increased membership and revenue a long time ago, call up the club now and let them know that its so easy and anyone could have done it, yet no one could do it.

Agendas work both ways.

 

[thylacine60]

What have I walked into … the game is on the 10th kids.

no