Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Bluechip66]

Kelly was always a massive flight risk, and walked out as soon as he could. Despite his talent, nobody is blowing pick 3 on that.

True but that wasn’t the q

You're missing the whole point of why I asked to do that... which was to show that in 2017 you couldn't name a decent player until pick #21. Most others would agree with you too. But in reality nearly every club passed on Allen with their first pick (including the Eagles who took Brander) so you can't knock our recruiting department. Brad Johnson was not a list manager at the time and he still isn't now.

It's not like there were a whole host of gun kids and we just happened to pick the worst of the bunch...

ok....got ya. As far as BJ Never said he was, just what he said.

 

[katmanblue]

We haven't wasted the rebuild at all and as we saw with when Teague took over, it was a sizable spike

Teague's spike came on the back of moving kids out of key roles and putting senior guys back in there.

 

[katmanblue]

weak argument. Why not just keep going back and back and back in years ?
today they know everything, and the weak recruiters (unless lottery) recruited for the weak clubs and hopeful that they had the people around them to develop into a player.
too many top clubs recruiters know what’s going on.
There are clubs that even if a player was available they pass even if so and so say oh top 20
Because they aren’t the player they want.
Do you want someone with a little mongrel with less skill
Or soft and more skill
I’ll take the first option every day

What?

 

[forever blue 1]

What?

Wasn’t for you,

 

[Arr0w]

weak argument. Why not just keep going back and back and back in years ?
today they know everything, and the weak recruiters (unless lottery) recruited for the weak clubs and hopeful that they had the people around them to develop into a player.
too many top clubs recruiters know what’s going on.
There are clubs that even if a player was available they pass even if so and so say oh top 20
Because they aren’t the player they want.
Do you want someone with a little mongrel with less skill
Or soft and more skill
I’ll take the first option every day

Didn't understand any of that either

 

[Arr0w]

I’m not saying we’ve wasted our rebuild, but we have wasted quite a bit of valuable time due to poor development, as well as injury and the covid year.

We wouldn’t want to waste too much more time stagnating, or we might miss our chance.

We have progressed similar to any other rebuilding club

 

[Arr0w]

Teague's spike came on the back of moving kids out of key roles and putting senior guys back in there.

Did you forget the attacking change

 

[forever blue 1]

Didn't understand any of that either

What does it matter. Honestly.

 

[katmanblue]

They went for quality over quantity. They only have 6 coaches, including Laidler who coaches the 2s.

How many do we have?

Teague
Amos
Power
Barker
Stanton
Bruce
O'Keefe


One more than Sydney?

 

[tarczonandjane]

With regard to tackling, last week on this forum I was told there is more to defensive effort than tackling. That’s true of course. But then the player who I’d found underwhelming went and put in a howler of a missed tackle against Port. Seems the experts have also noticed our poor tackling efforts.

I see a few people saying the media frenzy might cause us to turn things around over the coming weeks. I’m happy if that happens, but I think the majority of the list don’t actually have a clue how to win. It’s ingrained in them. Let’s see. Fingers crossed I am wrong.

Anyway, some of the media dissections have been good. John Ralph was excellent.

 

[Stamos]

Teague's spike came on the back of moving kids out of key roles and putting senior guys back in there.

This is a bit of a fallacy. He moved Ed from the forward line into the guts, and then Murphy when Cripps was injured. He brought LOB back in to play on the wing. In 2019 he was still playing the kids.

 

[Stamos]

How many do we have?

Teague
Amos
Power
Barker
Stanton
Bruce
O'Keefe


One more than Sydney?

And Baker

 

[norway blue]

On tackling though Saints have Billy Slater .? I’d bring in Cameron Smith . Tough as and a beautiful kick with premiership integrity. Just my feelings .


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[SkyhorseTamer]

This is a bit of a fallacy. He moved Ed from the forward line into the guts, and then Murphy when Cripps was injured. He brought LOB back in to play on the wing. In 2019 he was still playing the kids.

What actually happened and had a bigger impact is the older guys just started playing better after the coach was changed. They'd gone full mutiny before that and the change just restarted their drive. Cripps stood in the middle of the field arguing with a runner up at GWS' home ground for about 10 minutes in that Bolton game. It was shocking to see live but told me Bolts was gone. Much of the upturn was just that animosity and frustration being released. Hopefully we aren't headed down the path to player disharmony again. It's horrible to watch.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Tough as and a beautiful kick with premiership integrity

Integrity is not a word I'd associate with Cam Smith.

 

[Stamos]

What actually happened and had a bigger impact is the older guys just started playing better after the coach was changed. They'd gone full mutiny before that and the change just restarted their drive. Cripps stood in the middle of the field arguing with a runner up at GWS' home ground for about 10 minutes in that Bolton game. It was shocking to see live but told me Bolts was gone. Much of the upturn was just that animosity and frustration being released. Hopefully we aren't headed down the path to player disharmony again. It's horrible to watch.

Partly also Teague’s adjustment to the game plan that allowed them to be happier and play better.

 

[Arr0w]

Most important stat, apart from goals, is contested possessions

 

[norway blue]

Integrity is not a word I'd associate with Cam Smith.

Take your point re the salary cap . We can’t keep jumping at skeletons. IMO


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[SkyhorseTamer]

Take your point re the salary cap . We can’t keep jumping at skeletons. IMO


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Do you think Richie McCaw was a fair player? Cam Smith was the McCaw of the NRL. I don't know how he was allowed to dictate to refs etc. Grub off the field too.

Carlton certainly needs that absolute desire to win, I think we lack it a bit, but Cam Smith is a little too close to Essendons 'do whatever it takes'...

 

[norway blue]

Do you think Richie McCaw was a fair player? Cam Smith was the McCaw of the NRL. I don't know how he was allowed to dictate to refs etc. Grub off the field too.

Carlton certainly needs that absolute desire to win, I think we lack it a bit, but Cam Smith is a little too close to Essendons 'do whatever it takes'...

Absolute desire to win .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DangerousD]

Integrity is not a word I'd associate with Cam Smith.

Do people look back and see a lack of integrity? Or do they see a great captain, leader and winner?

No one cares that Diesel and Rhys-Jones were thugs or the dodgy shit our players from the 70s and 80s got up to, people care about the premierships we won.

 

[mario bortallotto]

Do you think Richie McCaw was a fair player? Cam Smith was the McCaw of the NRL. I don't know how he was allowed to dictate to refs etc. Grub off the field too.

Carlton certainly needs that absolute desire to win, I think we lack it a bit, but Cam Smith is a little too close to Essendons 'do whatever it takes'...

are you a salty parramatta supporter?? pretty harsh on a long term australian captain

 

[Gethelred]

Do we have enough talent on the list? I think we're short in the midfield with Cripps struggling to keep carrying the side and short in the forward half with the question marks over Charlie.

Yep.

We either need some of the players we have - LOB, Dow, Stocker, Ramsay, Philp, Setterfield, Cuningham, Kemp, Caroll, Durdin, Williams, Martin, Williamson, SPS - to take the next step, or we need to replace those without AFL capablities in other positions.

 

[katmanblue]

Did you forget the attacking change

Yeah of course but only changing to an attacking style wouldn't have given the same results. Putting capable bodies in the middle made it possible.

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah of course but only changing to an attacking style wouldn't have given the same results. Putting capable bodies in the middle made it possible.

Of course it was a mixture of items