Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[gbatman]

Malthouse made a number of mistakes. I'm sure the pissy amount of time the book tour took made no difference at all but yes, shouldn't have done it. But blaming him for Carlton falling to bits is ridiculous. You would have to ignore an absolute mountain of things being done poorly and going wrong that had nothing to do with Malthouse to believe that. Navy blue glasses of the highest order!

There is an inability to see fault in things Carlton here and that's why it's easy to throw blame at "the Collingwood" bloke. Inability to see that our board didn't have major problems which effected the footy department and coaching group in a devastating way. Inability to see that our previous coach had major flaws probably because he was a much loved Carlton person and that his mistakes could not be undone. Inability to see that our football department didn't have major problems. Inability to see that there was a severe lack of leadership at Carlton and still is and not understanding the important leadership plays within a football club. Inability to see the failings of other departments at the club at the time.

Last but not least, an inability to see how all these things came together to bring down our club. I can guarantee you what happened at Carlton would have happened regardless of who our head coach was. Malthouse just happened to be there, he was made a scape goat, that was the easiest thing to do and it took focus away from the real issues. Our coach blaming culture has been the toxic part of Carlton which is used over and over again to take the focus away from this club's real problems. This is why a review was finally run because someone there has had enough of this bullshit and sees the repeating issue I am seeing and wants to get down to the bottom of it.

If you want a coach to be successful, your club has to make them successful and give them every opportunity to succeed and we have not been doing that for the last 20 years.

We can't keep being mediocre in our football department and keep sacking coaches. The rot has to stop here. This blame culture that we have, blame Ratten, blame Teague, blame Bolton, blame Malthouse, whoever! That's part of the rot that has to stop because it's not true.

Could the club have made any of those coaches successful? Absolutely! But they have made failures out of all of them.

Whoever we get next, we need to support them, give them everything they need to be successful, make sure our people are the best in the business. Top list manager, top director of football, top senior coach, top assistants, top medical and fitness team, top high performance, top recruitment and a board that stay out of the football department business. And if we get a rookie coach, get in a top senior assistant and do everything we can to fix the culture and leadership issues at Carlton because if you don't fix that the next coach fails.

 

[Gethelred]

His record speaks otherwise. For a crap coach he won and played in a lot of grand finals.



Covid deniers are the way they are because they want what they believe to be true so bad they genuinely believe their own garbage. Same as people blaming Malthouse, they want it to be true so badly they ignore the mountain of evidence that all points to board incompetence. If you want something to be true so badly you will believe it. In this case it's far scarier and depressing to believe the truth, that it wasn't the coach, it's our very core and that may not have changed. Same same but different.

If it makes you feel more comfortable to believe he stuffed Carlton up then fine. Doesn't make that assessment right.

Makes no sense that people are elite at what they do until they come to Carlton.



Yes exactly, list was a 5th-10th placed quality list. If it were possible to build upon that list it could have gone higher. It was impossible to build that list to go further because you need a strong leadership group and that was absent and it caused a culture where players could not be pushed. This was on the previous coaching group and how the club supported and staffed the footy department.

Our recruiting, development were rubbish so players weren't going to come internally. Our salary cap was exploding so they weren't going to come externally.

This is why instead of building a list it decayed. Nothing to do with Mick Malthouse.

We were decaying and had nowhere to go but down from a good decade of mismanagement.

With good recruitment, development, cap space and leadership yes, we could have gone ahead. We had none of that.




We lost players because of salary cap issues, poor development and no leadership. We ruined the players long before Malthouse arrived.

I've said it here before, we will lose players this time around if we get a good coach. You go from a second rate coach, poor leadership and poorly developed players to a coach who is top quality and hence demands effort, toughness, discipline etc the players won't like that. Ratten gave the players too much authority and didn't develop leaders. That's why he failed, that's why Malthouse "lost" the players. They were already lost.

Malthouse never had these issues at other clubs. So why all of a sudden did he have them at Carlton? Says a hell of a lot about our club, the players and our leadership.

Malthouse had nothing to do with the need for a full rebuild. Damage was already done. Mismanagement, a terrible list and a poor culture or lack of culture due to lack of leadership developed during the Ratten era. That was what held us back.

Yarran was living a toxic lifestyle and had to go, ended up at Richmond, played no games then ended up in jail. Robinson lacked discipline in all areas, badly needed leaders to guide him but we didn't have that. Poor development and culture at Carlton stuffed Robinson, turned it around at a better club. Betts was about money, Crows offered him good coin, our salary cap was exploding and we couldn't get near it. Garlett went to Melbourne and did nothing. Henderson had attitude problems, needed to be at a club with strong leadership and has been a fringe player at one, Waite same, not developed well as a young blokes. Setanta went to GWS where he struggled until he retired soon after.

Again, how was he so successful at one club and so unsuccessful at another. It's the club, it's that obvious. And history keeps repeating itself.

Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton, Teague... a long list of names who have failed, not because they are duds but because the club has always failed to give the football department what it needs to succeed. A club which has lacked quality leaders since the 90s and failed to develop leadership in its players. Rubbish recruiting team. Gone without high performance staff. Gone without list managers. Picked the worst assistant coaches. Put rookie coaches in without a senior assistant. Mismanaged player salaries and contracts. Boards who refuse to take coaches advice. Board members who interfere with the football department.

The list of f**kups coming from our board over the last 20 years is a horror story. Yet we keep rolling on blaming the coach all the time.

A new coach, a new president. Let's hope things start to change and quick because both have a lot of work to do.

Being longwinded does not make ones argument coherent or competent, and repeating what one has said seventeen different times does not make it truth.

You have said all of this before, and it wasn't any more true then than it is now.

 

[gbatman]

Being longwinded does not make ones argument coherent or competent, and repeating what one has said seventeen different times does not make it truth.

You have said all of this before, and it wasn't any more true then than it is now.

So what makes your opinion correct and mine not? Opinion or is there something hard to go on? What I have stated is either fact or my opinion.

 

[Gethelred]

So what makes your opinion correct and mine not? Opinion or is there something hard to go on? What I have stated is either fact or my opinion.

It's your opinion, which you spend significant amount of time painting as fact. Which is something you do a fair bit.

 

[Gethelred]

I mean, I really don't give a crap about whether you agree or disagree with my opinion. Arguing makes for an interesting diversion, but it's not got any substance behind it.

What I object to and what I've objected to from you is when you take assumption as fact, and you extrapolate an argument from it. It's something you've done before, and unless you stop we're going to be discussing it again six to twelve months from now.

 

[My Hat]

Malthouse made a number of mistakes. I'm sure the pissy amount of time the book tour took made no difference at all but yes, shouldn't have done it. But blaming him for Carlton falling to bits is ridiculous. You would have to ignore an absolute mountain of things being done poorly and going wrong that had nothing to do with Malthouse to believe that. Navy blue glasses of the highest order!

There is an inability to see fault in things Carlton here and that's why it's easy to throw blame at "the Collingwood" bloke. Inability to see that our board didn't have major problems which effected the footy department and coaching group in a devastating way. Inability to see that our previous coach had major flaws probably because he was a much loved Carlton person and that his mistakes could not be undone. Inability to see that our football department didn't have major problems. Inability to see that there was a severe lack of leadership at Carlton and still is and not understanding the important leadership plays within a football club. Inability to see the failings of other departments at the club at the time.

Last but not least, an inability to see how all these things came together to bring down our club. I can guarantee you what happened at Carlton would have happened regardless of who our head coach was. Malthouse just happened to be there, he was made a scape goat, that was the easiest thing to do and it took focus away from the real issues. Our coach blaming culture has been the toxic part of Carlton which is used over and over again to take the focus away from this club's real problems. This is why a review was finally run because someone there has had enough of this bullshit and sees the repeating issue I am seeing and wants to get down to the bottom of it.

If you want a coach to be successful, your club has to make them successful and give them every opportunity to succeed and we have not been doing that for the last 20 years.

We can't keep being mediocre in our football department and keep sacking coaches. The rot has to stop here. This blame culture that we have, blame Ratten, blame Teague, blame Bolton, blame Malthouse, whoever! That's part of the rot that has to stop because it's not true.

Could the club have made any of those coaches successful? Absolutely! But they have made failures out of all of them.

Whoever we get next, we need to support them, give them everything they need to be successful, make sure our people are the best in the business. Top list manager, top director of football, top senior coach, top assistants, top medical and fitness team, top high performance, top recruitment and a board that stay out of the football department business. And if we get a rookie coach, get in a top senior assistant and do everything we can to fix the culture and leadership issues at Carlton because if you don't fix that the next coach fails.

Honestly, I tend to agree with your broader point about Carlton having a coach blaming culture. And I agree that if the club doesn't rectify those other areas then it's just setting the next coach up to fail yet again. I just find it strange that you've picked Malthouse as your example of the good coach ruined by the club. For mine, he was the poorest selection and the biggest failure of our last half dozen coaches.

 

[gbatman]

It's your opinion, which you spend significant amount of time painting as fact. Which is something you do a fair bit.

I don't paint my opinion as fact ever. If I know something I say it. If I have an opinion where I can back it up I do so. If I'm unsure of something I say it. In the end this is a football forum, it's a place for opinions.

A lot of what I have said is fact, those problems I have stated at Carlton at the time are very very real. A lot of that has been reported in the media by people who can be trusted. The rest are supported by results. Some of it is my opinion which I can gladly backup with supporting evidence.

If you don't agree with my opinions that's fine.

I have a very strong opinion that Malthouse was not the reason for Carlton falling apart back then. I have a very strong opinion of what was the problem and cause of Carlton's 20 years of failure and it is my opinion that the cause of that was there long before Malthouse and has been there long after Malthouse. I am concerned that it is still there however a new president and a new coach is going to bring some hope that it isn't.


It's fact that we had salary cap and play contract issues. Both SOS and Malthouse have said that. Rumours of conflict with our board and Malthouse at the time have been verified by Malthouse himself.

I'm not going to quote that and edit out the bits I'm not responding to, but there is a hell of a lot of speculation, guessing and hypothesising going on there. A lot of words to effectively say 'I have a different opinion and believe different versions of events to you'.

Not too much in the way of facts.

Speculation, guessing and hypothesising. Yes some of what I have said is just that however it's based on plenty of evidence to support it. It's the same as hating on Malthouse and blaming him for so much of what went wrong at Carlton. It's pure speculation, guessing and hypothesising. But it needs some evidence to back it up doesn't it?

The more you look at Malthouse's history, Carlton's last 20 years, what was going wrong within the club before and during Malthouse's time. Malthouse being so bad and being a problem just makes less and less sense.

And yes, it's far more comforting to believe that Malthouse was the problem because he is gone. But believing the problem wasn't Malthouse and that the problem was our board and our football department and that really hasn't been fixed yet, that's not a very comforting thing the believe.



I'm going to put a question to people. Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton, Teague. Could another club at the time of their Carlton appointment made any of these coaches successful? Forget how they went with us. Do you posters out there believe that in another universe where they went to another club or came to Carlton where the club was run and did things differently, could it have been possible for these men to have had success instead of having the results they had with us?

 

[gbatman]

Honestly, I tend to agree with your broader point about Carlton having a coach blaming culture. And I agree that if the club doesn't rectify those other areas then it's just setting the next coach up to fail yet again. I just find it strange that you've picked Malthouse as your example of the good coach ruined by the club. For mine, he was the poorest selection and the biggest failure of our last half dozen coaches.

He was unnecessary. Sure he was a really good coach and Ratten's coaching was criticised at the time however on our list of issues, coaching was probably down the bottom somewhere. He wasn't the reason we blew up but a new coach, regardless of who it was wasn't going to fix us.

We made a failure of Pagan because we were the worst in the league in every aspect, we were broke, understaffed, worst list in AFL history and lost a lot of draft picks etc etc etc. and we were rebuilding, something we knew very little about.

Ratten we failed, for starters he was a raw coach which is ok but he needed a senior assistant. Someone with a hard edge to pull him up when he and the players were doing the wrong thing. His player development and lack of leadership development let him down and in the end so did recruiting and list management. Or footy department at the time was so far behind the rest it wasn't funny. Ratten was probably not aware we were failing him but we were.

We were a mismanaged mess when Malthouse arrived. Our team was getting worse prior to that, players were mentally not made of the right stuff due to previous development. We had nearly 10 years of shocking drafting and developing and our player contracts and salaries were out of control, we couldn't recruit mature players and we couldn't pay our own. It's similar to what Collingwood have just been through. What happened at Carlton was going to happen regardless of who was coaching. What went wrong at Carlton was on the board in a big way IMO not the coach. Why on earth had we not had a list manager for a start? It's bonkers when you think about it.

Bolton, well we backed him in but didn't resource him. We had Neil Craig as senior assistant and things were going well but when he was lost and not replaced the wheels started falling off. I think not having that senior figure with a rookie coach is a big no no. IMO it has a lot to do with how leadership is developed within the playing group. Good coaches develop leadership really well and while some coaches are good with strategy they lack this.

Teague. Same story, a raw coach with no senior assistant. I feel that the leadership group let him down badly as well, just signs of how we play we play like a side that isn't pushed. You need leaders for that to happen. Our half arsed approach of getting in Worsfold to do it by proxy failed badly. The senior assistant needs to be there in person, they need to be at training and in the coaches box.

Sacking the coach if you are losing was just how teams operated in the 90s and prior and we took this into the 2000s. The coach was pretty much everything back then. Now this is not the case, the off field team has many cogs, not one.

The board are and have always been the problem and what's wrong with Carlton. They probably think they are doing things right and always have so the coach gets it every time. Board aren't going to say, we are doing things wrong, we are the cause of our problems, we aren't up to it. No they will use the coach as a scapegoat.

Fortunately we have done an external review which hopefully uncovers some issues and no doubt these issues will come back on who is responsible for assembling the coaching group, football department etc etc

My concern is that we are actually trying and actually attempting to assemble a good off field team but because of our past we might be finding it hard to get people. Sort of why getting someone so highly regarded as Cook may make people feel more comfortable to come to us.

 

[Gethelred]

I don't paint my opinion as fact ever. If I know something I say it. If I have an opinion where I can back it up I do so. If I'm unsure of something I say it. In the end this is a football forum, it's a place for opinions.

A lot of what I have said is fact, those problems I have stated at Carlton at the time are very very real. A lot of that has been reported in the media by people who can be trusted. The rest are supported by results. Some of it is my opinion which I can gladly backup with supporting evidence.

If you don't agree with my opinions that's fine.
I have a very strong opinion that Malthouse was not the reason for Carlton falling apart back then. I have a very strong opinion of what was the problem and cause of Carlton's 20 years of failure and it is my opinion that the cause of that was there long before Malthouse and has been there long after Malthouse. I am concerned that it is still there however a new president and a new coach is going to bring some hope that it isn't.


It's fact that we had salary cap and play contract issues. Both SOS and Malthouse have said that. Rumours of conflict with our board and Malthouse at the time have been verified by Malthouse himself. Speculation, guessing and hypothesising. Yes some of what I have said is just that however it's based on plenty of evidence to support it.
It's the same as hating on Malthouse and blaming him for so much of what went wrong at Carlton. It's pure speculation, guessing and hypothesising. But it needs some evidence to back it up doesn't it?

The more you look at Malthouse's history, Carlton's last 20 years, what was going wrong within the club before and during Malthouse's time. Malthouse being so bad and being a problem just makes less and less sense.

And yes, it's far more comforting to believe that Malthouse was the problem because he is gone. But believing the problem wasn't Malthouse and that the problem was our board and our football department and that really hasn't been fixed yet, that's not a very comforting thing the believe.

I'm going to put a question to people. Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton, Teague. Could another club at the time of their Carlton appointment made any of these coaches successful? Forget how they went with us. Do you posters out there believe that in another universe where they went to another club or came to Carlton where the club was run and did things differently, could it have been possible for these men to have had success instead of having the results they had with us?

Edit: gbatman, I have reconsidered my post.

While I meant everything I said in it, I do not think that this forum is an appropriate place to call someone out as a fraud, which is what that post did.

We should treat each other better than that, so with that in mind, I apologise.

 

[mediumsizered]

Two things can both be true. Maybe Malthouse was poor AND the board & football department were poor.

Malthouse coached a premiership at Collingwood after a 20 year drought. He is one of only two coaches to achieve this feat at Collingwood in the past 60 years, the other of course being Leigh Matthews. The playing list he won that premiership with was not in the league of the Geelong or Hawthorn lists of the time. It was a list who were prepared to buy in to the Malthouse methods with the belief it would win a premiership.

We appointed Malthouse 2 years after he had coached the premiership & 12 months after he had coached Collingwood to the minor premiership & another grand final. Our players didn't want to buy into the Malthouse way, so ultimately the club sacked Malthouse. 6 1/2 years later we have sacked 2 more coaches & are going through the process of trying to find another coach. Do you not see the problem here?

 

[mediumsizered]

That's why I'm excited. Our list is primed despite the naysayers. We have a heap of players below their best who could easily find it again with a fresh start. It doesn't have to take time.

The players at the start of our rebuild will be 24 next year and that's prime age territory.

We have the top end talent, i.e. Walsh, McKay, Weiters, Charlie & Crippa, but what we need is a coach who can bring the next level of players & those below them up a level & bridge the gap somewhat. This is what Barassi, Jezza & Parko did to win premierships at our club. Malthouse did the same at Collingwood in 2010, Beveridge for the Bulldogs in 2016 & Dimma in a big way at Punt Rd.

Whoever is appointed coach in the coming weeks will have the task of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Those who can be brought along separated from those who are really only capable of being on the list of a bottom half of the ladder team. I've got a bit of an idea of what we need, but that is for a later time.

I just hope the club are ignoring the song & dance from the media & some noisy supporters & take as long as they need to make an informed decision on the choice of coach. Our club has been too reactive to media noise. The carry on about Lyon, for instance, is counterproductive & is best ignored by the club. We need to pick the coach who we believe is best suited to taking our club forward, not the coach who has the most mates in the media.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I’m really tired of the Carlton bashing led by Whateley. He has evolved from quality reporter/sport supporter to self egrandising, sermonistic narcissist. Bruce would never editorialise like this clown.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

In my opinion WestCoast had an incredible list Malthouse might have been competent then but not great
At Collingwood I believe his assistants did the hard yards
All his premierships do is make me believe we don’t need a genius super coach just a competent one who is flexible a good relationship builder who’s able to take input from some very good assistants
Some average coaches have won premierships some great coaches haven’t
Might have gone a bit hard last night maybe he was an average coach

He came to the attention of West Coast after his impressive tenure at the Western Bulldogs. He got them to a PF with little or no resources.
It could be argued he should have won more flags, but as previously mentioned, winning one flag let alone three is pretty hard.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

The Malthouse article is damning. When one of the best football minds ever tells a bunch of business people who's understanding of football is probably no better than the average fan that the list and player contracts are stuffed and they don't believe him then that's just incredibly damning on what is wrong with Carlton. Inevitably Malthouse would be prove right but our board didn't want to hear it.

This sort of conflict between coach and board is just so damning on our club. We pushed really hard to get Malthouse because we knew he had such high credentials and when he told the club things needed to be done the board wouldn't back him in and support him, things went to sh*t.

It backs up what people have been saying on here and elsewhere for years, that we are too reliant and overly dictated by powerbrokers and we badly lack genuine football people on our board.

A lot of people are deluded and find it more comfortable to believe Malthouse fu**ed Carlton because that's the comfortable thing to believe. The truth far more uncomfortable to believe. Our Board F**ked Ratten over then it f**ked Malthouse over and they f***ed over the whole club over. That's what happened.

If you don't back in your coach you fail badly. That goes for the board, the football department, the leadership group and the players. Malthouse was the right person for the job, he was a great person for the job, he was bang on the money that we needed to rebuild and that's been proven. The board went against that until it was forced to rebuild and low and behold Malthouse was proven right.

Looking back none of our coaches have been backed properly by the board, leadership group or players fully. None have been supplied with a top football department. This is why coaches are probably a little hesitant on signing with us. They need to know we have changed.

The board need to but out of the football department and listen when they are told and give when they are asked. That would be a start when it comes to making sure that the next coach is supported properly. Last thing we need is to f**k over the next bloke.

The Board has to oversee the appointments as it is part of their governance requirements. The CEO is the person who pulls this all together for the President and the Board.

The problem is that we have sacked CEO's like we have sacked coaches. Liddell allegedly wants Voss. The President allegedly wanted Clarkson and then Lyon. The Board allegedly did not want Lyon, but wanted Clarkson. Williams came along and told them this is how you appoint a coach. You appoint a committee, interview and then make a recommendation that can be taken back to the Board. Like it or hate it, that is the way it has to be.

Does anybody believe we would have been in this mess if Cook had been in the job as CEO?? I suspect he would have handled it a lot differently.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

I’m really tired of the Carlton bashing led by Whateley. He has evolved from quality reporter/sport supporter to self egrandising, sermonistic narcissist. Bruce would never editorialise like this clown.

Whately is terrified we are taking Cook & Scott from his precious Cats.

 

[DangerousD]

In my opinion Mick was always a crap coach one of those big talking blow hards that often walk through big business on undeserved reputation
Don’t think he would have made it through any legitimate selection process
I’m happy we are going through a selection process because these transparent frauds will be found out
Carltons foibles at the the time are undeniable in hiring an incompetent insecure loser like Mick
Should have had an assessment from our psychologist narcissist of the highest order with zero flexibility of thought
A solidified concrete thinker who blames others for his own inadequates
He was a disaster for our club and feel sorry for any player who He coached There wouldn’t be a Carlton player that had a good word for him
He reminds me of Scotty from marketing all style no substance

Coached his sides to 7 Grand Finals, how do crap coaches do that?

 

[Gointocarlton]

Coached his sides to 7 Grand Finals, how do crap coaches do that?

718 games he was crap for apparently, took the geniuses at Carlton to out him. Filth, WC and Footscray were none the wiser.

 

[My Hat]

Malthouse coached a premiership at Collingwood after a 20 year drought. He is one of only two coaches to achieve this feat at Collingwood in the past 60 years, the other of course being Leigh Matthews. The playing list he won that premiership with was not in the league of the Geelong or Hawthorn lists of the time. It was a list who were prepared to buy in to the Malthouse methods with the belief it would win a premiership.

We appointed Malthouse 2 years after he had coached the premiership & 12 months after he had coached Collingwood to the minor premiership & another grand final. Our players didn't want to buy into the Malthouse way, so ultimately the club sacked Malthouse. 6 1/2 years later we have sacked 2 more coaches & are going through the process of trying to find another coach. Do you not see the problem here?

You're giving Malthouse the credit for Collingwood's success but avoiding giving him any blame for our failure. Do you not see the problem here?

I'm not absolving the rest of the club of its share of the blame during Malthouse's time -- far from it -- but Malthouse was absolutely part of the problem.

 

[gbatman]

The Board has to oversee the appointments as it is part of their governance requirements. The CEO is the person who pulls this all together for the President and the Board.

The problem is that we have sacked CEO's like we have sacked coaches. Liddell allegedly wants Voss. The President allegedly wanted Clarkson and then Lyon. The Board allegedly did not want Lyon, but wanted Clarkson. Williams came along and told them this is how you appoint a coach. You appoint a committee, interview and then make a recommendation that can be taken back to the Board. Like it or hate it, that is the way it has to be.

Does anybody believe we would have been in this mess if Cook had been in the job as CEO?? I suspect he would have handled it a lot differently.

Absolutely. I get the feeling Williams is exactly what we need.

Keeping people in their place seems to be an issue with us. New President needs to get onto of this.

It doesn't have to be Lyon or Clarkson, there are others. Just has to be the right people. I'd take a rookie coach but they need a senior assistant.

Cook would be a terrific get. Everyone would feel more comfortable with him there.

 

[thylacine60]

I’m really tired of the Carlton bashing led by Whateley. He has evolved from quality reporter/sport supporter to self egrandising, sermonistic narcissist. Bruce would never editorialise like this clown.

bruce who?

 

[mediumsizered]

why isn't Arr0w part of this toing and froing?

bruce who?

Doull?

 

[BigBreakfast]

why isn't Arr0w part of this toing and froing?

bruce who?

McAvaney, the guy Gerard wishes he was…

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Happy Father’s Day to all the Blue Bagger dads and stepdads

 

[Bell Ringer]

Long shot here, but a mate’s turning 40 later this year so I wanted to get him a framed pic from the 81 GF - specifically the classic pic of Parko and Fitzpatrick holding up the cup.

Does anyone have insight/advice on who may be able to print off an original?

Old newspaper clippings indicate it may have been snapped by Peter Cox but googles not helping me here.

Appreciate any assistance in advance.

 

[Gethelred]

I’d say aside from Buckenara not clearly stating Walsh is an A Grader his ratings probably not that far off the mark.
It’s pretty much what a lot here have been saying all year in that we have some top end talent but far too much of the list is middling at best.

Several things:

What has Will Setterfield ever done that would put him at the same perceived level as Sam Walsh or Jacob Weitering? In what way is Sam Petrevsky-Seton at a similar level to Liam Jones or Sam Docherty? And that's just within the B tier.

Jack Silvagni's C grade? Jack Silvagni's at the same level as McGovern???

That tier list somewhat uncovers the utter nonsense that tier lists represent, as well as provides for the reader the impression that Buckenarra has not watched a game of ours this year if at all over the past 2 seasons.

Sam Walsh, B tier. Piss off.