The Closed Thread

[Melbdave81]

The thread that was closed earlier today about Ben Cousins and whether he would be welcome at Carlton raised so very interesting issues. As a club and as supporters, we have stuck up for and stood by Brendon Fevola despite the issues that he has battled throughout his time at the football club (clearly not on the same level). Surely, if we are being fair dinkum, we would give Cousin's another chance if he ended up coming to Carlton (I don't believe it will ever happen).

At the time that Fev had his issues in Ireland, we had to put up with opposition fans taking the high moral ground and ripping into his behaviour. It was disappointing to see Carlton fans doing the same thing today.

Cousins would be a great aquisition to any football club and if he committed to changing his off field behaviours, I for one would be more than happy to take him.

Maybe people need to take a step back and step down for their high moral ground, and look at the issue without judging peoples actions.

I am sure there is much more to come out, but as Carlton people, we should be able to discuss an issue in a far more mature way.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

The thread that was closed earlier today about Ben Cousins and whether he would be welcome at Carlton raised so very interesting issues. As a club and as supporters, we have stuck up for and stood by Brendon Fevola despite the issues that he has battled throughout his time at the football club (clearly not on the same level). Surely, if we are being fair dinkum, we would give Cousin's another chance if he ended up coming to Carlton (I don't believe it will ever happen).

At the time that Fev had his issues in Ireland, we had to put up with opposition fans taking the high moral ground and ripping into his behaviour. It was disappointing to see Carlton fans doing the same thing today.

Cousins would be a great aquisition to any football club and if he committed to changing his off field behaviours, I for one would be more than happy to take him.

Maybe people need to take a step back and step down for their high moral ground, and look at the issue without judging peoples actions.

I am sure there is much more to come out, but as Carlton people, we should be able to discuss an issue in a far more mature way.

Honestly, they are two very different situations. No need to bring up the Fev thing again is there????? He's over it, we're over it, the club are over it, i dont really see any point to bring it up again...

Ok - Cousins apparenlty has substance abuse problems - alcohol and drugs. His is not a once off. His is a recurring theme of the last few years, and it has progressively gotten worse.

If Fev got tested positive for Drugs, then i wouldn't want him on the team either. THey are professional sportsmen, they don't get paid all that money to send out the wrong message.


Two completely different scenarios, no need to compare them.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

The thread that was closed earlier today about Ben Cousins and whether he would be welcome at Carlton raised so very interesting issues. As a club and as supporters, we have stuck up for and stood by Brendon Fevola despite the issues that he has battled throughout his time at the football club (clearly not on the same level). Surely, if we are being fair dinkum, we would give Cousin's another chance if he ended up coming to Carlton (I don't believe it will ever happen).

At the time that Fev had his issues in Ireland, we had to put up with opposition fans taking the high moral ground and ripping into his behaviour. It was disappointing to see Carlton fans doing the same thing today.

Cousins would be a great aquisition to any football club and if he committed to changing his off field behaviours, I for one would be more than happy to take him.

Maybe people need to take a step back and step down for their high moral ground, and look at the issue without judging peoples actions.

I am sure there is much more to come out, but as Carlton people, we should be able to discuss an issue in a far more mature way.

It is natural to judge people's actions when they invovle such high profile examples that Cousins has had to deal with over the past few years.

"If he committed..." No. No way. Giving someone your word is one thing. Actually going ahead and doing it is another. In many cases they don't complement each other unfortunately.

Melbdave, dont' get me wrong, I love Cousins, he has been one of my favourite players for many years and it is such a sad thing to hear about his problems. You woudln't wish it on anyone anywhere.

However, I dont want a player at our club who promises to do teh right thing, i want one who actually does the right thing.

It's not a high horse I'm on, i just think of Murphy and Gibbs and the rest of the no.17 brigade, and i dont want them getting distracted or losing their dedication that they have now.

 

[gadj1976]

I think it's different to take on another clubs' problems, rather than dealing with your own.

If someone in your club does this, you deal with it in the best way possible. Taking on another club's problems is different. Within the club, you know the history of the person (in full) you know what will motivate them to work harder and deal with their problem better. You also will know who they respect around the club and who can be their mentor.

Taking on Ben Cousins would be a huge gamble. We would never know the full history - and are unlikely to because WCE will want to get as best a trade for him as possible (ie, unlikely to disclose all his personal problems), we wouldn't know what lead him to this stage, nor know how to best get him out of certain situations. You would need to know the man before you can help fix the man. This is ok if he rights his wrongs this year, but if it doesn't, then that all takes time and a lot of effort. Is it fair for a club to do that when there are 39 other players on the list that are doing the correct thing by all.....I personally don't think so.

I certainly for one don't rip into players who misbehave. I'm disappointed by their behaviour (for the kids who support him especially) but I don't berate them. I wish him all the best in whatever he can achieve in the future, on or off the field.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

I think if the club decide to go down that road and chase Ben they really need to have a long hard thing about it.
Not if he will make us a better team (because the answer to that is clearly yes) but as to the impact he will have on our playing group - imparticular the youngsters.
With Carlton having one of the youngest teams in the comp the club needs to decide whether they feel Ben can teach the young kids about playing good footy, playing in premiership and not about off field actvities.

I don't feel Carlton will take the risk - maybe Dennis would but the board will stand in, ala Zantuck and Gardiner.

 

[Fishman Dan]

The club has spent a long time developing the midfield, and the youngsters coming through will be another year or two older before Cousins is in the frame. I don't see any benefit in picking a player who at that time would not have played top level football in quite some time.

Carey went to Adelaide after a stint on the sidelines and never had the same impact. Again I think his role would be easier being a forward rather than an on-baller return to the fray.

Laurence Angwin has put playing behind him for a future in coaching in FNQ. A leopard can change it's spots, but with all the recent work, there's no room at Carlton for B. Cousins.

C. Judd on the other hand

 

[HBF]

As much as I respect Cousins for his footballing ability, I just don't think our football club is in the position to take him on. We have a very young list, and I would be very nervous that he could have quite a negative influence on them.

Can you imagine him getting into Murphys ear, Gibbs' ear, Simmo's ear, etc, etc.

We have a very promising list of kids, and Ben is too unstable for mine.

SAY NO TO BEN COUSINS

 

[Smell The Glove]

^^^
Agree with everything HBF has said.

 

[Dramoth]

As much as I respect Cousins for his footballing ability, I just don't think our football club is in the position to take him on. We have a very young list, and I would be very nervous that he could have quite a negative influence on them.

Can you imagine him getting into Murphys ear, Gibbs' ear, Simmo's ear, etc, etc.

We have a very promising list of kids, and Ben is too unstable for mine.

SAY NO TO BEN COUSINS

I agree...

While he is an awesome footballer, we dont need the associated trouble that will go with him.

He has a tendency to think that because he is a sports star, he is somewhat more special than the average person who goes to the matches and helps to pay his yearly salary.

 

[HBF]

He has a tendency to think that because he is a sports star, he is somewhat more special than the average person who goes to the matches and helps to pay his yearly salary.

You only have to watch the way he carries himself when you see him on the news. He walks with a swagger like he thinks he is bullet proof, and that he can pretty much do what he likes.

 

[Dramoth]

You only have to watch the way he carries himself when you see him on the news. He walks with a swagger like he thinks he is bullet proof, and that he can pretty much do what he likes.

Definitely... it comes from hanging around with a guy called Kizon.

 

[HBF]

Definitely... it comes from hanging around with a guy called Kizon.

You were based in Perth for a while weren't you mate?
If you were, you would have seen it first hand.

 

[ClayBlue87]

This is a very interesting topic. Personally I believe that every AFL footballer has the issue of recreational drugs. Im guessing they have all been offered them before, most have declined, some have used once or so, and a very small minority continue to use. I also believe that every footabller can redeem themselves, in particularly at a different club.

I know I am going to get shot down majorly for this, but we could be a serious stab for the finals in 2008/2009 if we had cousins who would be 29/30 at the time. Lets not forget the absolutely invaluable experience this bloke has. 6 time all australian, brownlow medalist, 3 times best and fairest and captaining a club over 100 games. On the field he would be INVALUABLE not only to the young kids, but to some of the oldies aswell. The guy runs and doesnt stop until the siren has blown. On another note, Murphy is quoted to say that his favourite player and the player he moulds his own game on is that of Ben Cousin's.

Say we make finals this year, come eight, just playing devil's avocate here. Would we not trade to get a player such as cousins that could help us win the premiership in the following year? And in a different scenario, if we came last again, and he was available PSD. Surely we couldn't pass on a free browlow medalist.

 

[blues4flag]

As I said in the other cousins thread:
Even though on the field, Cousins is my favourite non-Carlton player, and I rate him just as good, if not better than Judd - I'd have to say no. As good a player he is, his off-field issues just aren't worth it at our young club. Our players are still young and don't need that sort of bad influence. Hopefully Cousins recovers and gets over these issues for his sake, but can't ever see him at Carlton.

 

[Blah Blah Blue]

I am sure there is much more to come out, but as Carlton people, we should be able to discuss an issue in a far more mature way.

Absolutely, hence why the previous thread needed to be stopped.

The great thing about BF is the diversity of opinion, the constructive opposing thoughts, some of the analysis is brilliant, some comments ridiculous, we have our favorite posters and those we will never agree with BUT we are all CFC supporters and love the club. This is what comes thru and why I love coming on and reading with the occassional post and why I considered the previous thread was getting 'un Carlton like'.

My 2 cents worth on Ben and Carlton. We are creating a new history and the talent we are now gathering is the future.
Like most I absolutely love seeing how Cousins does his business on field and always thought he would look good in a Navy Blue jumper.
That was then. If and when Ben plays again it will be with WC, I cannot see him in another clubs colors and I cannot believe WC would not welcome him back when [and let's hope he does] he gets his life in order.

Go Blues and go Big Footy

 

[one_twelve112]

Michael Gardiner, possible the AFL's greatest cluster**** doesn't seem to have gotten into anyones ear at St Kilda and led them astray.....why do we assume; 1) Cousins would try to get in the young players ears 2) The young players would listen and follow.
The issues with Cousins are his own issues, all the young players at WC don't seem to have ****ed up simply because they were following Cuz's lead.
I would take him in a heartbeat with a very strict 'ethics & morals clause' in his contract. One single step out of line Benny and you're gone.

 

[kouta666]

Very interesting that Pagan has commented on it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=255863

Makes you wonder why? I'd welcome him in for sure!

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Very interesting that Pagan has commented on it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=255863

Makes you wonder why? I'd welcome him in for sure!

I'm sure all coaches have or will be questioned over this. It's a big issue. Doesn't neccessarily mean anything.

 

[one_twelve112]

Very interesting that Pagan has commented on it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=255863

Makes you wonder why? I'd welcome him in for sure!

Personally, I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Andyt30]

The thread that was closed earlier today about Ben Cousins and whether he would be welcome at Carlton raised so very interesting issues. As a club and as supporters, we have stuck up for and stood by Brendon Fevola despite the issues that he has battled throughout his time at the football club (clearly not on the same level). Surely, if we are being fair dinkum, we would give Cousin's another chance if he ended up coming to Carlton (I don't believe it will ever happen).

At the time that Fev had his issues in Ireland, we had to put up with opposition fans taking the high moral ground and ripping into his behaviour. It was disappointing to see Carlton fans doing the same thing today.

Cousins would be a great aquisition to any football club and if he committed to changing his off field behaviours, I for one would be more than happy to take him.

Maybe people need to take a step back and step down for their high moral ground, and look at the issue without judging peoples actions.

I am sure there is much more to come out, but as Carlton people, we should be able to discuss an issue in a far more mature way.

Defently adults wouldn't start crap threads proves how immature they are probably started by kids
by removing all troll threads would Certainly free up some space especally started by opposition supporters

 

[HBF]

Very interesting that Pagan has commented on it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=255863

Makes you wonder why? I'd welcome him in for sure!

I noticed that Paul Roos and Neil Craig were also commenting about him ,as was Nathan Buckley. Any interview done in the next few days will also have the Ben Cousins "saga" thrown up as well.

 

[Dramoth]

You were based in Perth for a while weren't you mate?
If you were, you would have seen it first hand.

I was HBF.... I was there with all the stuff regarding Gardner and with the booze bus incident last year with Cousins... made front page news over there.

 

[HBF]

I was HBF.... I was there with all the stuff regarding Gardner and with the booze bus incident last year with Cousins... made front page news over there.

I get to Perth a bit with work, and it is fair dinkum Eagles and Dockers saturation over there. If it wasn't for the Internet, you wouldn't even know the other 14 AFL teams even exist.

Perth is my second favourite Australian city behind Melbourne, but playing Footy over there must be like living your life inside a fish bowl.

 

[Dramoth]

I get to Perth a bit with work, and it is fair dinkum Eagles and Dockers saturation over there. If it wasn't for the Internet, you wouldn't even know the other 14 AFL teams even exist.

Perth is my second favourite Australian city behind Melbourne, but playing Footy over there must be like living your life inside a fish bowl.

You do know that the other teams exist... the news in WA has a tendency of blowing any minor incident completely out of the water when the player involved belongs to one of the other clubs...

But, on the flip side, they will castigate any weagle and shocker players who do something wrong...

but the players are all basically treated like gods and they can just about get away with anything so long as they dont overtly break the law... or if they do break the law, they must not get caught or else...