The Eddie Moratorium

[katmanblue]

Owies in the side has made Eddie a much better player.

And I would also say that Eddie in the side has made Owies a much better player

Coincidence? I think not.

 

[katmanblue]

Which come first chicken or the egg?

The egg. The chicken was a mutation.

 

[Kramer1]

Well no one is going to push him out if he keeps getting extensions and they can't get a game.

So he should go based purely on age? Owies is co-existing perfectly well with Eddie. Who is kicking the consistent 3-4 goal bags in the VFL, and piling on the forward pressure to push for a spot?

 

[1981]

Am I the only person in the world who thinks he could go around another year? I am not saying you gift him games, but right now he is still showing the ability to torch teams, and it's not like we have many other small forwards better than him.

Granted it isn't every week but when he is on song he is awesome still.

I think it comes down to fitness. I wonder if Russell challenges Ed to get even fitter over this coming summer, what Betts V 2022 could be like. I mean, he isn't firing every week, is that just generally getting old and nothing can be done about that or can he actually work harder on his fitness?

 

[drunkill]

Well no one is going to push him out if he keeps getting extensions and they can't get a game.

Gibbons doesn't replace him, Owies doesn't replace him, Fisher is playing up the ground.

Nobody is pushing Eddie out of the side and nobody is playing well enough in the VFL to do so either. See where Durdin is next year and he might get a few games when Eddie needs resting, otherwise, we have no small forward replacement for Betts.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

So he should go based purely on age? Owies is co-existing perfectly well with Eddie. Who is kicking the consistent 3-4 goal bags in the VFL, and piling on the forward pressure to push for a spot?

Well - Eddie is kicking 1.5 goals a game and is in the bottom third of the Coleman table (around 30th?) - and as a permanent forward that aint great.

He's had a "decent" few weeks - but that has ALWAYS been Eddie, great for a few weeks, then weeks / months of below average.

Are there players who are contributing up the ground like Papley, or Green types, consistently and also hitting the scoreboard ?

Yup - Honey, Durdin, Carrol, Ramsay. These kids need to play yesterday and most other clubs would be blooding them regularly.

Eddie is highlights machine of "almost, nearly, just about, so close " - but his actual contributions fall well short of the position he takes in the team and this is most evident through his consistency which is very poor.

Carltons biggest issue this season has been - without any doubt - consistency and unfortunately that total lack of consistency has been highlighted by our leaders.

Cripps, Docherty, Murphy, Betts, Casboult, etc.

Carlton supporters seem to put the cue back in the rack after every win - then three weeks of capitulation we re-engage with reality.

Betts, Murphy, Casboult need to step down and chip in with the next generation and help them out.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Gibbons doesn't replace him, Owies doesn't replace him, Fisher is playing up the ground.

Nobody is pushing Eddie out of the side and nobody is playing well enough in the VFL to do so either. See where Durdin is next year and he might get a few games when Eddie needs resting, otherwise, we have no small forward replacement for Betts.

Betts is averaging 1.5 goals a game. Honey, Durdin and even Carroll could replace him - and should.

Like it or not Eddie is not Papley, he is not Greene - and denying the kids who need to work in the AFL system that chance and instead relegate them to the basket case that is VFL is a disaster.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Am I the only person in the world who thinks he could go around another year? I am not saying you gift him games, but right now he is still showing the ability to torch teams, and it's not like we have many other small forwards better than him.

Granted it isn't every week but when he is on song he is awesome still.

I think it comes down to fitness. I wonder if Russell challenges Ed to get even fitter over this coming summer, what Betts V 2022 could be like. I mean, he isn't firing every week, is that just generally getting old and nothing can be done about that or can he actually work harder on his fitness?

Toby Greene "Torches" teams - Betts does not. He has one great game this year - one - against Adelaide.

I get people really like Eddie - everyone really likes Eddie - but the reality is very different from our emotions.

 

[Kramer1]

Like it or not Eddie is not Papley

I'd say we are doing OK for a third or so of the salary...

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I'd say we are doing OK for a third or so of the salary...


View attachment 1167227

I raised Papley and Greene not just for their scoring - but for their effective work and contribution.

Papley 50 marks to Eddie 30.

Papley 98 Uncontested to Eddie 60.

Papley 84 contested to Eddie 63.

Papley 134 kicks to Eddie 88.

Those numbers are across the board and are absolutely smashing Eddie - its honestly ludicrous to compare their contributions.

Eddie stays at home and yes occasionally ventures out while Greene, Papley etc are immense around the grounds.

But the main point is that there is ten years difference between these guys - Papley isn't holding another player out, Eddies contribution is not so huge that he simply can't be left out.

Its just not that big of a contribution to satisfy that metric.

Jack Martin was phenomenal against the Crows - Eddie was meh. But the commentary around Eddie was off the charts for very limited effect.

I don't want to be negative about Eddie because he doesn't deserve a single bad word - but at the end of the day younger players need to take that spot and should have this year in my view.

 

[Kramer1]

I raised Papley and Greene not just for their scoring - but for their effective work and contribution.

Papley 50 marks to Eddie 30.

Papley 98 Uncontested to Eddie 60.

Papley 84 contested to Eddie 63.

Papley 134 kicks to Eddie 88.

Those numbers are across the board and are absolutely smashing Eddie - its honestly ludicrous to compare their contributions.

Eddie stays at home and yes occasionally ventures out while Greene, Papley etc are immense around the grounds.

But the main point is that there is ten years difference between these guys - Papley isn't holding another player out, Eddies contribution is not so huge that he simply can't be left out.

Its just not that big of a contribution to satisfy that metric.

Jack Martin was phenomenal against the Crows - Eddie was meh. But the commentary around Eddie was off the charts for very limited effect.

I don't want to be negative about Eddie because he doesn't deserve a single bad word - but at the end of the day younger players need to take that spot and should have this year in my view.

What value does comparing totals have when Papley has played more games?

Papley has not quite one more effective disposal per match...immense around the ground?

 

[Ash24]

I raised Papley and Greene not just for their scoring - but for their effective work and contribution.

Papley 50 marks to Eddie 30.

Papley 98 Uncontested to Eddie 60.

Papley 84 contested to Eddie 63.

Papley 134 kicks to Eddie 88.

Those numbers are across the board and are absolutely smashing Eddie - its honestly ludicrous to compare their contributions.

Eddie stays at home and yes occasionally ventures out while Greene, Papley etc are immense around the grounds.

But the main point is that there is ten years difference between these guys - Papley isn't holding another player out, Eddies contribution is not so huge that he simply can't be left out.

Its just not that big of a contribution to satisfy that metric.

Jack Martin was phenomenal against the Crows - Eddie was meh. But the commentary around Eddie was off the charts for very limited effect.

I don't want to be negative about Eddie because he doesn't deserve a single bad word - but at the end of the day younger players need to take that spot and should have this year in my view.

What's the point of comparing these stats when Eddie clearly doesn't get as many possessions as Greene or Papley? It's a useless set of data because we want our small forwards to tackle and kick goals - not necessarily get 20 touches a game.

 

[Arr0w]

I raised Papley and Greene not just for their scoring - but for their effective work and contribution.

Papley 50 marks to Eddie 30.

Papley 98 Uncontested to Eddie 60.

Papley 84 contested to Eddie 63.

Papley 134 kicks to Eddie 88.

Those numbers are across the board and are absolutely smashing Eddie - its honestly ludicrous to compare their contributions.

Eddie stays at home and yes occasionally ventures out while Greene, Papley etc are immense around the grounds.

But the main point is that there is ten years difference between these guys - Papley isn't holding another player out, Eddies contribution is not so huge that he simply can't be left out.

Its just not that big of a contribution to satisfy that metric.

Jack Martin was phenomenal against the Crows - Eddie was meh. But the commentary around Eddie was off the charts for very limited effect.

I don't want to be negative about Eddie because he doesn't deserve a single bad word - but at the end of the day younger players need to take that spot and should have this year in my view.

We have younger players that will take Eddie's spot.

Seriously can't believe how people continue to overrate Papley, especially given the asking price of the failed trade

 

[Coops93]

Toby Greene "Torches" teams - Betts does not. He has one great game this year - one - against Adelaide.

I get people really like Eddie - everyone really likes Eddie - but the reality is very different from our emotions.

Kicking 5 goals sounds like a torching to me. Against a top 2 team no less.

Not a great game by your standards, though.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Am I the only person in the world who thinks he could go around another year? I am not saying you gift him games, but right now he is still showing the ability to torch teams, and it's not like we have many other small forwards better than him.

Granted it isn't every week but when he is on song he is awesome still.

I think it comes down to fitness. I wonder if Russell challenges Ed to get even fitter over this coming summer, what Betts V 2022 could be like. I mean, he isn't firing every week, is that just generally getting old and nothing can be done about that or can he actually work harder on his fitness?

Would have to be on the understanding that he's probably only going to play 10-12 games as we rotate other players through his spot to find his replacement.
Give some of them a few games next to him in the seniors so they can learn and get him playing a few games in the VFL so those guys can learn off him too.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Well, I think everyone would love 1 Eddie in their corner every week, but he's dropped the ball a few times lately.
So on the whole it's probably time he hung up the boots, so to speak.

 

[Wickzki]

Am I the only person in the world who thinks he could go around another year?

I'm all for signing Eddie for another 12-months based on his form this year.

Make one of the youngsters force themselves into the 22 and retire Eddie instead of gifting Eddie's spot to someone who may not have earned it yet.

He's still making strong contributions, still impacting games, still someone who requires the opposition to put a small defender on him.

If he loses that and someone takes his place then that's better than the alternative.

 

[Coops93]

I'm all for signing Eddie for another 12-months based on his form this year.

Make one of the youngsters force themselves into the 22 and retire Eddie instead of gifting Eddie's spot to someone who may not have earned it yet.

He's still making strong contributions, still impacting games, still someone who requires the opposition to put a small defender on him.

If he loses that and someone takes his place then that's better than the alternative.

I'd be keen for him to stick around so long as it promises aren't made. If he's overtaken his spot isn't automatic.

If one of the young guys does overtake him though it would be sad to see him finish in the 2s, that's not how he should go out. I don't think he, the club or the fans want to see him sign up for another year just to play 16 games in the 2s.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

What's the point of comparing these stats when Eddie clearly doesn't get as many possessions as Greene or Papley? It's a useless set of data because we want our small forwards to tackle and kick goals - not necessarily get 20 touches a game.

Because they are kicking the same or MORE - and also outputting twice as much as Eddie - thats why.

If he is going to perform so badly as a goal kicking forward (6 or 7 games this year with 1 goal or less, and 13 last year) - that is just completely unacceptable for someone who does not also make significant contributions around the ground.

 

[Wickzki]

I'd be keen for him to stick around so long as it promises aren't made. If he's overtaken his spot isn't automatic.

If one of the young guys does overtake him though it would be sad to see him finish in the 2s, that's not how he should go out. I don't think he, the club or the fans want to see him sign up for another year just to play 16 games in the 2s.

That was the same premise that was made to him this year. That if he was overtaken that he'd serve as coach-player in the VFL.

Make the same promise this year if he hasn't got a problem with it and then ease him into coaching the forwards or at least small forwards.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Kicking 5 goals sounds like a torching to me. Against a top 2 team no less.

Not a great game by your standards, though.

We are talking about Adelaide. But sure bring up his one decent game this year - which was acknowledged. One game does not justify holding back the development of your players.

His contributions around the ground are about half that of other smaller forwards mentioned like Greene - while offering similar output up forward.

Its simply no where near good enough.

13 games last year he kicked 1 or less goals. 6 Times this year.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Well, I think everyone would love 1 Eddie in their corner every week, but he's dropped the ball a few times lately, with the whole Héritier Lumumba thing and then the end of season fire sale. So on the whole it's probably time he hung up the boots, so to speak.

Yup. Would be total mis-management by this club to send him round again.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Definitely picked up after an absolutely disastrous start. Still in the bottom third of the pack - and this is at the expense of development.

AFL Goalkicking @ FanFooty

AFL Goalkicking (Coleman Medal) for the 2005 season, updated www.

www.fanfooty.com.au

Man ... what is it with "context free" statistics lately.

Question: Where is he on the "small forwards" ladder? Answer: Equal 4th - so nowhere near the bottom third in an 18 team competition. He's performing as well as, or better than Kysaiah Pickett, Shane McAdam, Jack Higgins and Jake Aarts and is only slightly behind Tom Papley.

Feel free to make the case about the development expense (although I'd be interested to hear who's development you think has been stifled by the presence of Eddie in the senior team), but please leave statistical manipulation out of the discussion.

 

[Coops93]

We are talking about Adelaide. But sure bring up his one decent game this year - which was acknowledged. One game does not justify holding back the development of your players.

His contributions around the ground are about half that of other smaller forwards mentioned like Greene - while offering similar output up forward.

Its simply no where near good enough.

13 games last year he kicked 1 or less goals. 6 Times this year.

You said Adelaide was his 1 good game and he doesn't torch teams. I pointed out that in another game he kicked 5, which proved that wrong. In another game he's kicked 3, as well as against Adelaide, and in another 3 has kicked 2 which is more than acceptable for a small fwd.

He also has 12 goal assists on the season, 2nd to Walsh for most on the team to go with 20 goals, also 2nd on the team.

No other small forward on our list is better than him right now, and the only general forward better than him is Harry.

Toby Greene is arguably the best in the league at his position. If that's your expectations for a small forward chances are you're going to be disappointed no matter who we play there.

 

[Wickzki]

You said Adelaide was his 1 good game and he doesn't torch teams. I pointed out that in another game he kicked 5, which proved that wrong. In another game he's kicked 3, as well as against Adelaide, and in another 3 has kicked 2 which is more than acceptable for a small fwd.

There's no point arguing with him. I've lost count of how many times he's been clowned on this forum yet he keeps coming back for more.