The Facts Behind Carltons Week From Hell Part Two

[TheHeatleyStand]

Oh and as for the money being missmanaged... well were not breaking even are we??.. even with 30k members.. dont you think there is something weird going on that we cant get within cooey of breaking even with our supporter base??.. and the crowds we get .. even though we are shyt???

This current board in its current form cant cut it!!!... and very soon we will have a board that will turn it around...

And thats how it is...there isnt anymore...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So the forum makes you depressed.. but the position of the club doesnt???

The ox is slow but the earth is patient. I am usually tolerant.

Ill be positive when positive stuff happens.. and it will happen very soon...

Or you can continue to read small positives as negatives as long as the people you want sacked at the club are still there.

Right now.. we have a coach who is detested by just about every player.

Man, you should coach. All the players confide in you, you'd be a natural.

We have a CEO who has a job because it suits the President.

Meh.

We have a President who found it easier to go onto the footy show and beg for money on the Tasmanian Benefit disaster show... and handed over the club on a platter to the AFL..

Instead of doing what? More solutions, less finger pointing.

Look its all going to change. The **** will hit the fan and the three people in key positions holiding us back wont be there for much longer.. mark my words!!!...

And what are there replacements bringing to the table?

... and when it happens Hulleluljah!!!.. even i can get on with being normal again...

Well even I will praise the second coming if it happens, however I will be content that I am not publicly hurting the club while I am waiting.

i might even post some positive posts... cos you know why???.. cos when the wheels are in motion and were going forward there will be some genuine positive stuff to report and talk about.

Time will tell.

right now.. were going backwards... no ifs ... no buts... were going backwards.

The question is, who is telling you this and are they privy to this information? And are you being told to keep driving the bus on their behalf?

Really dont get what point youre trying to make from Queensland....

The point is pretty simple regardless of where I am. Lowly ignorant Queensland supporter or not ... I hate to see rhetoric with little in the way of solutions, little in the way of detail, little in the way of objectivity, especially when Carlton supporters read it, hang off every word and contribute to the public outpouring while not actually hearing it first hand themselves. I'd love to keep an open mind, good or bad ... honestly I would, but I tend to get turned off by onesidedness and agendas. Credit where it is due, regardless of how small it might be and constructive criticism where it is due. That's how my particular brand of ignorance works.

 

[BlueWorld]

Here we go again. Just over a month ago we were told that Pagan had lost the players and we could expect a number of players to walk. Thornton has a massive carrot ($1 million) dangled in front of him by the Hawks, he initially decides he likes the carrot and finally after he realises the club wants to keep him at all costs, he chooses to sign a 3 year deal (he obviously doesn't like Pagan).

Jordan Russell decides he is homesick and looks to be traded to Port, most likely based on what he considers to be lack of opportunity at Carlton. The club tells him he is a required player, he overcomes his homesickness and signs a 2 year deal (I guess he doesn't like Pagan either).

Kouta comes to the end of a very lucrative contract and gets offered a lot less by the club, on a 1 year deal. His manager runs to the media to do his bargaining, claiming it is an insult to Kouta. Now Kouta, as we know, is near the end of his career and has nothing more to prove. If not happy he could walk away from the game, straight into a media job, with his head held high. Surprise, surprise he signs a 1 year deal at a greatly reduced rate (can't stand Pagan).

Cain Ackland chooses to leave a club that has been playing finals, that has a fresh new look on the coaching panel (Ross Lyon is a very likeable chap), to come to Carlton. Admittedly he gets 3 years, instead of the 2 years St Kilda offered, making the move attractive. Now, though he has to play under that tyrant, Denis Pagan. What was he thinking?

Why did Barnaby French retire? It would have nothing to do with the serious back injury he suffered in 2005, which has severely limited him since. No, here is a guy who came to the club at the same time that Pagan did, played 4 seasons under Pagan and at just on 31 years of age has decided to pull the plug. The fact that football has never been the be all and end all to Barnaby, would have nothing to do with his retirement, nah it has to be Pagan's fault.

Interesting to note that since the 'murmurings' started a year, or so, ago about Pagan having lost the players, or at least being disliked by the players, only one player has walked. Yes, that's right, it was Campo. He was a huge loss, wasn't he? The fact that there is no 'i' in team had nothing to do with Campo leaving. It had to be because of Pagan.

Now you decide that ADL is not happy. May I suggest if there is any truth to this rumour at all, that it may have something to do with the arrival of another ruckman at the club. Perhaps someone sees that their opportunities may be a bit more limited. If ADL was to walk it would show an incredible lack of loyalty, because unless I am mistaken, Pagan, more than anyone else, has shown faith in the guy over and over again. What more could ADL ask?

Methinks there is an effort being made by some posters to try and destabilise the club, or at least create that doubt in the eyes of Carlton supporters, in the name of trying to get an opposition ticket up and running. Let me just say that no matter who is club president or senior coach, we will go into next season with the same playing list and the same debt hanging over the club's head. There will be no magic wand waving and quick fixes. Sorry to disappoint those who think that axing the President, the CEO and the Coach will put us back on top and back in the black.

Thornton was forced to re-sign because we threatened to redraft him in the PSD. We virtually forced him to stay. He also knew he had little chance of getting to Hawthorn. He would have been traded had the deal been advatageous for us. It wasn't. We wanted him to stay, as with Russell because it doesn't look good to be losing players. I believe he is no fan of Pagan.

My understanding is Russell does not like Pagan & vice versa, plus there was no guarantee he would have got to Port Adelaide in the PSD.

French was fine physically. Mentally he could not stand another year of Pagan & was contracted to play, so he knocked back a fair bit of money. ADL is also contracted & has had adequate opportunities so why has he lost the passion after 3 years and at age 24?

Add Campo- that's 2 (Pagan, not money), Thornton & Russell if they could have, others who'd like to leave but were not in enough demand to be sought by other clubs (e.g. Lappin, Chambers. Prender, Bryan). Don't be surprised if Stevens leaves next year.

McPhee, Kosi etc all offered big $$ to come to Carlton, all preferred not to come for less $$.

Ackland preferred a 3 year deal to a 2 year at St K & saw more opportunities at Carlton. He was dropped for their final so did not get to play in a final.

All comes from multiple reliable sources & I have no political agenda. You believe what you want but if you believe all is fine at the club you're deluding yourself.

 

[bluey#4]

I have very little to do with the USC. i know a couple very well. i have very little in common with others.

So the forum makes you depressed.. but the position of the club doesnt???

Ill be positive when positive stuff happens.. and it will happen very soon...

Right now.. we have a coach who is detested by just about every player.
We have a CEO who has a job because it suits the President.

We have a President who found it easier to go onto the footy show and beg for money on the Tasmanian Benefit disaster show... and handed over the club on a platter to the AFL..

and some of us should just go along with that kind of garbage???...

Look its all going to change. The **** will hit the fan and the three people in key positions holiding us back wont be there for much longer.. mark my words!!!...

... and when it happens Hulleluljah!!!.. even i can get on with being normal again...

i might even post some positive posts... cos you know why???.. cos when the wheels are in motion and were going forward there will be some genuine positive stuff to report and talk about.

right now.. were going backwards... no ifs ... no buts... were going backwards.

going back to the USC they paved the way for this board to come in for elliot.. some support them.. some dont... that has nothing to do with me.

Really dont get what point youre trying to make from Queensland....

Sorry but this has to be said again: Positive things have happened in the last month or so. I think you know what they've been so I'm not going to list them. I know they are small steps for a club (resigning/signing) but they are positive steps and you dont seem to realise that. For a football club to progress and improve takes time and patience. Do you really think that sacking "the three people in key positions holding us back" will make our club progress any faster?
If there are problems on the board, try and have faith that the board will do what is best for the CFC.
You are making the game of football far too dramatic.
There are no benefits from saying that you feel the club is going to the dogs. You claim you are filling us in, giving us information that we have the right to know but all your are doing is potentially making supporters concerned. This does nothing positive for the club. You say you are a supporter?
If you are going to post sensationalist posts, know what damage you can do.
I am referring to comments such as "the coach is detested by just about every player". Are you speaking to all carlton players and are they telling you that they "detest" Pagan? If not, stop posting generally because your motives behind these posts in this thread are concerning and not wanted.

 

[bluey#4]

Thornton was forced to re-sign because we threatened to redraft him in the PSD. We virtually forced him to stay. He also knew he had little chance of getting to Hawthorn. He would have been traded had the deal been advatageous for us. It wasn't. We wanted him to stay, as with Russell because it doesn't look good to be losing players. I believe he is no fan of Pagan.

My understanding is Russell does not like Pagan & vice versa, plus there was no guarantee he would have got to Port Adelaide in the PSD.

French was fine physically. Mentally he could not stand another year of Pagan & was contracted to play, so he knocked back a fair bit of money. ADL is also contracted & has had adequate opportunities so why has he lost the passion after 3 years and at age 24?

Add Campo- that's 2 (Pagan, not money), Thornton & Russell if they could have, others who'd like to leave but were not in enough demand to be sought by other clubs (e.g. Lappin, Chambers. Prender, Bryan). Don't be surprised if Stevens leaves next year.

McPhee, Kosi etc all offered big $$ to come to Carlton, all preferred not to come for less $$.

Ackland preferred a 3 year deal to a 2 year at St K & saw more opportunities at Carlton. He was dropped for their final so did not get to play in a final.

All comes from multiple reliable sources & I have no political agenda. You believe what you want but if you believe all is fine at the club you're deluding yourself.

There are of course rebuttals to everyone of those points. I honestly think that you are just trying to stir it up, see the reactions of the hot-headed blues supporters.
Hopefully everyone keeps a cool head and doesnt let these "well-informed" ****s concern you.
There are problems at the club but is that really a big suprise?
Things are looking up. Our list of players and management is improving and that is all we can ask for.

 

[audas]

Political agendas are so obvious........the way they twist everything to suit the objective. The spitefull outpourings backed up with vengefull "waite and see" comments are all to bland, myopic and just stupid.

Thank facking fack we have some really great moderators around here. I think people know im not one to go the suck, but geez when your club is this far down, and the knives are out, to keep a cool head, stay logical, and keep the course is great. Good work by those who are trying to stay positive moderators and other gals, gils, fans, and walkers. But to those who just want to be recognised, well, you obvioiusly missed your day. Like some father who lives vicariously through thier son....maybe its time to listen.

 

[OZBomb]

I'm not sure I gives two hoots about whether Lorraine Diggins and Co stays. From what I've read The Vice President is leaving and Bruce Mathieson had already decided to leave. Is it a dictatorship or a cohesive board? I suppose that depends upon perspective. As for forcing Diggins out, I heard she complained that she wasn't asked about giving the number 2 (apologies if that's the wrong number,) to Jordan Russell because her grandfather (or some relative) used to wear that number playing for Carlton.

I don't give a c**p about the politicking at board level, I just want good results from it for the Carlton Football Club... and they've been doing that of late.

 

[Monty Burns]

OH crap if the real reason (so I've heard from a very credible source IMO) that Brendon Goddard stayed at St.Kilda is made public, then all hell will break loose. Lets just say that we were in a position to get him for free after Cornflakes was sacked as Saints coach.
Put it this way, I hope a certain person at the club can sleep at nights after the crap he did.

I would suggest your source is not fully informed, cos Goddard was contracted.

 

[BlueWorld]

I would suggest your source is not fully informed, cos Goddard was contracted.

Goddard just signed a new contract after the season, I believe after we made him a good offer but he knocked it back.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Thornton was forced to re-sign because we threatened to redraft him in the PSD. We virtually forced him to stay. He also knew he had little chance of getting to Hawthorn. He would have been traded had the deal been advatageous for us. It wasn't. We wanted him to stay, as with Russell because it doesn't look good to be losing players. I believehe is no fan of Pagan.

Again though, that doesn't inspire confidence. Thornton made an effort to come out and say different so that is the only concrete thing we have to go on, spin or otherwise.

My understanding is Russell does not like Pagan & vice versa, plus there was no guarantee he would have got to Port Adelaide in the PSD.

Again, nothing conclusive. My understanding was that all other clubs would have passed on Russell to allow him to get to Port. He only had to worry about getting past our pick. Still signed for two years, could have asked for one only to try again next year.

French was fine physically. Mentally he could not stand another year of Pagan & was contracted to play, so he knocked back a fair bit of money. ADL is also contracted & has had adequate opportunities so why has he lost the passion after 3 years and at age 24?

I missed his article where he said this. Could not possibly comment.

Add Campo- that's 2 (Pagan, not money), Thornton & Russell if they could have, others who'd like to leave but were not in enough demand to be sought by other clubs (e.g. Lappin, Chambers. Prender, Bryan). Don't be surprised if Stevens leaves next year.

All symbolic of out of form players or fringe players at a wooden spoon side. Hardly surprising.

McPhee, Kosi etc all offered big $$ to come to Carlton, all preferred not to come for less $$.

Players want success as well. A lot of players sign for less than offered elsewhere.

Ackland preferred a 3 year deal to a 2 year at St K & saw more opportunities at Carlton. He was dropped for their final so did not get to play in a final.

Ackland played 41 games in 2 years and was told he was a big part of the Saints plans. He obviously felt insecure with the arrival of Gardiner. Looking at the reverse, Deluca would be feeling pretty insecure with the arrival of Ackland and not being one of our top earners and being fully aware he is saved by a contract, little wonder he would be wondering if it is worth going through the motions.

All comes from multiple reliable sources & I have no political agenda.

These sources ... are they forum posters somewhere? If they are at the club and leaking like a sieve, I'll gladly cast doubt over their motive and integrity in telling you things like this. When we actually do lose required players for nothing and they come back and hurt us, then we can sit up and take notice. Hasn't happened yet.

You believe what you want but if you believe all is fine at the club you're deluding yourself.

Nobody is saying all is fine, yet the conspiracy participants keep saying that they are. I've yet to see one supporter claim everything is fine, they just find positives where they can and conservatively adopt a wait and see policy over worrying things. They're not running around saying that sky is falling, that is for sure.

Baby steps is the best way to go, we have a long way to come back from. Some believe it all has to happen overnight and if it doesn't, then heads must roll.

 

[BlueWorld]

There are of course rebuttals to everyone of those points. I honestly think that you are just trying to stir it up, see the reactions of the hot-headed blues supporters.
Hopefully everyone keeps a cool head and doesnt let these "well-informed" ****s concern you.
There are problems at the club but is that really a big suprise?
Things are looking up. Our list of players and management is improving and that is all we can ask for.

Just passing on info from reliable sources who know what goes on. If you think Campo & French leaving, Thornton & Russell asking to leave with someone else about to join them & players from other clubs knocking back good offers mean all is well at the club, that's your problem. Sounds like the PR machine are doing a good job deceiving all the supporters that all is well at the club when it isn't.

 

[BlueWorld]

As for forcing Diggins out, I heard she complained that she wasn't asked about giving the number 2 (apologies if that's the wrong number,) to Jordan Russell because her grandfather (or some relative) used to wear that number playing for Carlton.

It was #5.

 

[sherb]

Just passing on info from reliable sources who know what goes on. If you think Campo & French leaving, Thornton & Russell asking to leave with someone else about to join them & players from other clubs knocking back good offers mean all is well at the club, that's your problem. Sounds like the PR machine are doing a good job deceiving all the supporters that all is well at the club when it isn't.

I think people are simply trying to concentrate on the positives, whilst at the same time acknowledging the negatives. Seems like a reasonable way of looking at things as far as I am concerned - certainly far preferable to coming on here and being completely gloomy.

Or, to use a well worn cliche - they are taking the "glass half full" approach.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As for forcing Diggins out, I heard she complained that she wasn't asked about giving the number 2 (apologies if that's the wrong number,) to Jordan Russell because her grandfather (or some relative) used to wear that number playing for Carlton.

Number 5 to Kennedy.

The interesting point here is that Diggins was thought of as an idiot by all and sundry and held up as an example of how poor I board is, then conveniently when she finds herself opposing the Smorgon faction, she gets used as a propaganda tool. Instead of bagging Smorgon for being a dictator, you would think they would have been happy he was trying to squeeze her out.

You know, I'm no Smorgon apologist. I bagged him for undermining Pagan over the youth policy statement. I reckon he lacks a personality and I want a president that is more dynamic, especially when dealing with the media. Now I am thought of as a club apologist but the reality is that I look at each issue, look at the 'knowns' of each issue and respond accordingly. I am not about to hang a man or a club based on rampant speculation.

I have seen nothing different from our player list than I would expect from a long time cellar dweller. Disillusioned, frustrated players are commonplace. They play for money but they also play for the love of the game ... they are not getting the latter part fulfilled, it is not enjoyable for them.

Man I love seeing Walks, Simmo, Murph and Banno head out to support Kouta in DWTS. There is some comraderie there amongst players that are our future. The Roos were a tight knit well drilled machine with a gun focal point. The Blues are fast becoming that. I suspect players that are being asked to change or warned that their opportunities may be drying up, are naturally going to be peeved. I would be for sure .. doesn't mean it is not natural though.

Maybe Pagan can be more hands on, invite the boys around to his place for BBQs and be more buddy buddy. Maybe even the fringe or soon to be delisted players would be more glowing when speaking of him if he tried to be their friend. Quite simply, he is not that kind of coach. Calls a spade a spade, doesn't mollycoddle anyone. He seems to set performance standards and becomes quite affectionate to players that regularly meet those. Is is really surprising to know that Glenn Archer and Anthony Stevens were extremely close to Denis, even after his departure? I guess the praise that Archer heaps on Pagan means absolutely nothing here? The man is 100% committed and he has Pagan's respect and admiration. Is it unreasonable to expect that commitment from all our players? Drop your head or shirk the task and Pagan will let you know. I'd expect nothing less.

I find it interesting that Simmo is happy that Pagan has released him onfield. Served his apprenticeship and gets to have fun out there now. Walks was looking down and dejected for a while, now he has a license to rebound strongly from the back half, to back himself as it were.

People say Pagan has lost the players but I feel certain that losing has lost the players and the ones that don't have the heart for the fight will seek greener pastures.

 

[mediumsizered]

Thornton was forced to re-sign because we threatened to redraft him in the PSD. We virtually forced him to stay. He also knew he had little chance of getting to Hawthorn. He would have been traded had the deal been advatageous for us. It wasn't. We wanted him to stay, as with Russell because it doesn't look good to be losing players. I believe he is no fan of Pagan.

My understanding is Russell does not like Pagan & vice versa, plus there was no guarantee he would have got to Port Adelaide in the PSD.

French was fine physically. Mentally he could not stand another year of Pagan & was contracted to play, so he knocked back a fair bit of money. ADL is also contracted & has had adequate opportunities so why has he lost the passion after 3 years and at age 24?

Add Campo- that's 2 (Pagan, not money), Thornton & Russell if they could have, others who'd like to leave but were not in enough demand to be sought by other clubs (e.g. Lappin, Chambers. Prender, Bryan). Don't be surprised if Stevens leaves next year.

McPhee, Kosi etc all offered big $$ to come to Carlton, all preferred not to come for less $$.

Ackland preferred a 3 year deal to a 2 year at St K & saw more opportunities at Carlton. He was dropped for their final so did not get to play in a final.

All comes from multiple reliable sources & I have no political agenda. You believe what you want but if you believe all is fine at the club you're deluding yourself.

So you have spoken to all these players, have you? Got inside their heads and know exactly what they are thinking? You lost me when you used the phrase "My understanding is" and "all comes from reliable sources", I had to check to make sure I wasn't reading another Caroline Wilson article. The only thing missing is "it is believed".

We knew that Campo and Lappin didn't like Pagan over a year ago. I was glad to see Campo go and had also hoped that Lappin would join him. The attitude of both of them in 2005 & Lappin again this year showed a definite lack of professionalism, given the money they earn.

Chambers, Prenda and Bryan don't like Pagan either, apparently. Could it have anything to do with not getting a regular game? I think it is fairly well documented why these 3 struggled to get a game this year. 2 of them just weren't up to AFL football and the 3rd had attitude problems. So of course they don't like and therefore blame the coach, the alternative means having to have a good hard look at yourself. Better to blame someone else for your own shortcomings.

To say Kosi didn't come to Carlton because of Pagan is drawing a long bow. He was and still is playing at a club that sees itself as being close to premiership glory and sometimes players do show loyalty. Just look at how Brisbane were able to keep players who had bigger coin thrown at them by opposition clubs. Collingwood made a play for a couple of Brisbane players but were unable to win them over. Was that because they didn't like Malthouse?

Why would McPhee leave Essendon? He plays under a coach who becomes infatuated by certain players (eg Kevin Walsh, Dean Wallis, Mark Bolton, Aaron Henneman). McPhee is guaranteed a spot in Essendon's best 22 as long as Sheedy is coach. There would be no guarantees if he came to Carlton. He would have to perform on & off the field to be sure of getting a game.

The Carlton Football Club is a workplace, like any other. There are always those that are not happy with management. I have seen 2 people leave my employer over the last 2 months, both feeling let down by management. Yet there are so many others that are professional enough to get on with the job knowing that rewards come to those who are prepared to work hard and do the right thing. For every ADL who is not happy with the coach there is a Brendan Fevola who can see that if you put in the hard work, the rewards do come. Kade Simpson is another one who would have appreciated the loyalty Pagan has showed him during his time of development. I wonder how many coaches would have shown the same patience with a player who had no disposals in his first 3 AFL games.

Pagan is never going to please every player, but those who can't hack the hard work and the home truths are better off out of there. Did the loss of Campo hurt us? I don't think so. How about Beaumont 3 years ago? I don't think so. Until I see a mass walkout of Carlton players I will continue to be of the belief that the Carlton Football Club is no different to any other employer. There are those that are happy to be there and those that would rather be elsewhere. Sounds just like the many workplaces I have worked in over the years.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Just passing on info from reliable sources who know what goes on. If you think Campo & French leaving,

What massive losses they were[/quote]

Thornton & Russell asking to leave with

Thornton at least went public with his reasons, something the doomsayers have yet to do ... he doesn't like Pagan, very simplistic and without detail. Russell was homesick and never said anything but.

someone else about to join them

Deluca? Poor guy isn't in the inner sanctum of players. Doesn't work hard enough, feeling the pressure.

& players from other clubs knocking back good offers mean all is well at the club

Players from other clubs knock back good offers all the time, Carlton players knock back good offers all the time. Most use the other offers to further their negotiations.. But if someone knocks back a Carlton offer, it obviously means more than it does for every other team that gets knocked back. Also forgetting about the fact that we are a wooden spoon side, no spooner finds it easy to attract players. Fact of life.

Sounds like the PR machine are doing a good job deceiving all the supporters that all is well at the club when it isn't.

Again, show me a supporter that thinks ALL is well or stop perpetuating this myth.

 

[BlueWorld]

Obviously I haven't spoken to those players directly but I have heard enough info from people who do have links to players and other people at the club and it's not just one person it's a number and they're all saying the same thing. Just because everyone hasn't walked out doesn't mean they're all happy and wouldn't leave if they could. Believe it if you want.

2 players out of 38 being happy isn't too many. Who have you spoken to to confirm that all is well at the club?

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Political agendas are so obvious........the way they twist everything to suit the objective. The spitefull outpourings backed up with vengefull "waite and see" comments are all to bland, myopic and just stupid.

Thank facking fack we have some really great moderators around here. I think people know im not one to go the suck, but geez when your club is this far down, and the knives are out, to keep a cool head, stay logical, and keep the course is great. Good work by those who are trying to stay positive moderators and other gals, gils, fans, and walkers. But to those who just want to be recognised, well, you obvioiusly missed your day. Like some father who lives vicariously through thier son....maybe its time to listen.

The easiest thing in the world is to sit there and just cop everything.

There are changes in the wind.. and theyre done despite of your complacency.,

Isnt it good that some people do care enough to change things for you???

And ONH.. whats Malthouses ridiculous sayings got to do with anything???.. i know what youre getting at.... but just come straight out and say it!!..

Im frustrated and unhappy with whats happenihg to my club.

This is a forum and like other forums i will spill my guts out.
Its not negativity its that i am unsatisfied.

there are very few positives around the club .. and truest me im alot closer to things than you are.. so unfortunately i see thing better.

 

[HBF]

I think people are simply trying to concentrate on the positives, whilst at the same time acknowledging the negatives. Seems like a reasonable way of looking at things as far as I am concerned - certainly far preferable to coming on here and being completely gloomy.

Or, to use a well worn cliche - they are taking the "glass half full" approach.

That's nicely summed up Sherb. Some people take the Glass half full approach (like me), or the glass half empty approach.

We are not silly enough to believe that the club is not in trouble off field, but once we start winning some games and start to be successful again, just watch how these off-field issues just seem to work themselves out.

 

[AlecDuncan]

there are very few positives around the club .. and truest me im alot closer to things than you are...

Excuse me if I don't.

 

[Jimthegreat]

What massive losses they were

.

Players from other clubs knock back good offers all the time, Carlton players knock back good offers all the time. Most use the other offers to further their negotiations.. But if someone knocks back a Carlton offer, it obviously means more than it does for every other team that gets knocked back. Also forgetting about the fact that we are a wooden spoon side, no spooner finds it easy to attract players. Fact of life.


Again, show me a supporter that thinks ALL is well or stop perpetuating this myth.[/QUOTE]

No-one had trouble wanting going to go Richmond or the Doggies recently when they were on the bottom.

Don't choke on that sand.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Who have you spoken to to confirm that all is well at the club?

There it is again? Those that are a little more circumspect in the way they view these things don't need to be told constantly that they believe all is well or that their head is in the sand, when clearly that is not the case.

What tells me that there are some positives still at the club, is the fact that the media have stopped bashing us for the moment, that Smorgon has made a concerted effort to show a united front instead of saying stupid things in public. That the club showed strength by sticking to their guns against almost all popular opinion during trade week and came out the other side unharmed. Instead of being happy the club showed some strength, the ones that want them all out prefer to concentrate on the reasons for the players wanting to leave in the first place. Instead of wondering why the players have signed on for 2-3 years if their problems are so bad, they prefer to concentrate on them being forced to stay.

Instead of talking about how we are finally doing direct debit instalments for memberships, people are talking about how long it took us to do it. The club quite simply can do no right in some eyes.

I've already said Smorgon is not my preferred president and I was secretly excited about the prospect of getting a new coach into the place, but I won't be condemning them based on whispers and innuendo.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

.
No-one had trouble wanting going to go Richmond or the Doggies recently when they were on the bottom.

Yeah, they were migrating over in droves ... all big name players too. We can point to Nathan Brown I guess but then he left the Doggies looking for success did he not?

Don't choke on that sand.

You offer short responses, rarely go into detail and trot out the same old lines about others having their heads in the sand. Tell me which group has their head in the sand the most, those that see negative and positive as the case warrants OR those that only see negative because of some blind loyalty to posters or prospective board members. At least I'm not hero worshipping supporters walking around in trench coats going 'psst, want the goss on what is happening down at Carlton?'

We have so many Deepthroats going around that Linda Lovelace should be living on the royalties for another 10 lifetimes.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Look its all going to fall into place soon.

But changed have to be / will be made.. and those of us that want change and are screaming for it shouldnt have to be labeled as "nagative"
We might be critics and criticism when there needs to be criticism is positive.. because it leads to questioning and change.

And currently there is not alot of positives around the club that have manifested themselves because of a) Smorgon b) Pagan c) Malouf...

Unless someone can point out positives that can be DIRECTLY attributed to those three men.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yeah, they were migrating over in droves ... all big name players too. We can point to Nathan Brown I guess but then he left the Doggies looking for success did he not?

You offer short responses, rarely go into detail and trot out the same old lines about others having their heads in the sand. Tell me which group has their head in the sand the most, those that see negative and positive as the case warrants OR those that only see negative because of some blind loyalty to posters or prospective board members. At least I'm not hero worshipping supporters walking around in trench coats going 'psst, want the goss on what is happening down at Carlton?'

We have so many Deepthroats going around that Linda Lovelace should be living on the royalties for another 10 lifetimes.

I think youre getting mixed up between deepthoats and people with VERY long necks that go VERY deep into the sand...


and like i said... it will happen pretty soon.. and then when that happens are we negative or were you just a sheep with a long neck and a head that lived deep in the bowels of nothingness???

I think time will answer that for us .. so lets revist it then...