Mega Thread The Flat Earth Mega thread.

[Roylion]

This is why FE theory needs to be taught in the education system.

No it does not. Conspiracy theories and pseudo-science have NO place in the teaching of science. Teachng FE theory is akin to teaching Intelligent Design.

What is taught in education relies on the prevailing scientific consensus from experts in science. The Science, Geography and History curriculums are regularly updated to reflect these changes and I myself have contributed to those updates through state-wide curriculum panels I have been a part of. For example I teach the 'Out of Africa' scientific theory of historical human migration because that is the prevailing scientific view from all scientific fields including palaeonotology, biology and archaeogenetics. All are backed up by overwhelming, reputable, scientific empirical data, collected through the scientific method, by experts from those fields.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

No it does not. Conspiracy theories and pseudo-science have NO place in the education system. What is taught in education relies on the prevailing scientific consensus from experts in science. The Science, Geography and History curriculums are regularly updated to reflect these changes and I myself have contributed to those updates through state-wide curriculum panels I have been a part of. For example I teach the 'Out of Africa' scientific theory of historical human migration because that is the prevailing scientific view from all scientific fields including palaeonotology, biology and archaeogenetics. All are backed up by overwhelming, reputable, scientific empirical data, collected through the scientific method, by experts from those fields.

The problem with your post, is that he will now just happily rehash his "religion of science" yawn fest. And talk about how the big bang is just a theory and hasnt been proven enough for him. And that he just doesnt agree with your religious belief in science.

 

[Proper Gander]

I honestly didn't know flat earth was a thing before I read this thread. I mean a notion that any person living felt the need to champion, let alone demand research funding and inclusion in school programs.

I did meet a guy who was pretty persuaded that Elvis wasn't dead once, but I was reasonably certain he was on something.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

I honestly didn't know flat eart was a thing before I read this thread. I mean a notion that any person living felt the need to champion, let alone demand research funding and inclusion in school programs.

I did meet a guy who was pretty persuaded that Elvis wasn't dead once, but I was reasonably certain he was on something.

What about how it was the belief before it was proven not to be flat. Now its being talked about as if its this breaking new theory that is being oppressed.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

given the board rules - the onus is on the 'away team' to prove the shape of the globe

more so, when you go out side to by your cup of tea always stays in the cup, unless you gently knock it with your spoon, the world does indeed seems flat and still.

the extraordinary claim which requires extra ordinary evidence, is that the globe is spinning 5 directions simultaneously at high speeds. the proof for this is a) the rules of this sub forum, b) logic and the human brain / eyes

If you want to say this theory is something that is more factual than a theory, the onus is on you to prove it.

Provide evidence that the earth is flat.

We're still waiting.


And again, your complete disregard for basic physics doesn't prove the earth is flat, it just shows you as someone who simply can't understand why the objects around you act as they do.

 

[darthbards]

No it does not. Conspiracy theories and pseudo-science have NO place in the teaching of science. Teachng FE theory is akin to teaching Intelligent Design.

What is taught in education relies on the prevailing scientific consensus from experts in science. The Science, Geography and History curriculums are regularly updated to reflect these changes and I myself have contributed to those updates through state-wide curriculum panels I have been a part of. For example I teach the 'Out of Africa' scientific theory of historical human migration because that is the prevailing scientific view from all scientific fields including palaeonotology, biology and archaeogenetics. All are backed up by overwhelming, reputable, scientific empirical data, collected through the scientific method, by experts from those fields.

Stop destroying our children's future based solely around your own brainwashed theories and ego.

 

[Roylion]

The problem with your post, is that he will now just happily rehash his "religion of science" yawn fest.

It's already been explained to him in detail why science is not a religion. If people refuse to accept the obvious, they either have comprehension problems or an agenda. Or both.

And talk about how the big bang is just a theory and hasnt been proven enough for him.

Whether he likes it or not, the Big Bang Theory is the prevailing cosmological model amongst the experts and all the available scientific evidence including gravitational waves, the 'Doppler Effect', Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) and the abundance of the Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe, support that model. Hence it is currently taught in school curriculums.

And that he just doesnt agree with your religious belief in science.

Whether he agrees with it or not, the Flat Earth theory will not become part of any school curriculum until that theory is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and by the overwhelming consensus of science experts working in the relevant scientific fields.

At least not while I sit on any curriculum setting panels.

But still never fear, when I next teach the discoveries of Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo to my VCE students, I'll be sure to mention the FE theory in passing.

 

[Roylion]

Stop destroying our children's future based solely around your own brainwashed theories and ego.

I'm saving them from blindly accepting unsupported theories of conspiracies and pseudo-science purely through faith or limited evidence, much of which is clearly not scientific. The flat earth theory is clearly one of those. Same as 'intelligent design', it will not appear in any curriculum that I am associated with.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Stop destroying our children's future based solely around your own brainwashed theories and ego.

Thats a pretty disgusting thing to say to a teacher who has dedicated so much of his life to educating students.

 

[BlueSherrin]

What is a force in your opinion?

Ask Luke I think he had one. I assume it's like having "the knack" but I'm not that sure.

 

[cannot]

I'm saving them from blindly accepting unsupported theories of conspiracies and pseudo-science purely through faith or limited evidence, much of which is clearly not scientific. The flat earth theory is clearly one of those. Same as 'intelligent design', it will not appear in any curriculum that I am associated with.

dont you feel like a fraud when you explain to them how questionable unproven maths-theory albert made up or newtons infinitesimals mumbo?

do you explain how there hasnt been scientific proof the earth motion or how atmospheric refraction allows you to see things that are not there ?

i hope you specify how the jesuit (big bang), inbred (evolution), psychopathic occult (newton) theories are indeed hole riddle theories and not much more

 

[cannot]

It's already been explained to him in detail why science is not a religion

witchdoctors



you can explain till the cows come home but doesnt make you correct on that

Whether he likes it or not, the Big Bang Theory is the prevailing cosmological model amongst the experts and all the available scientific evidence including gravitational waves, the 'Doppler Effect', Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) and the abundance of the Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe, support that model. Hence it is currently taught in school curriculums.

oh yes you are the same one that reckons alien seeding has been proven

i feel sorry for your students

 

[cannot]

Thats a pretty disgusting thing to say to a teacher who has dedicated so much of his life to educating students.

 

[Roylion]

oh yes you are the same one that reckons alien seeding has been proven

Once again. I said no such thing. Don't twist my words to suit your own agenda.

What I actually said is here. I'll quote the relevant parts again, if you still have trouble comprehending it.

Read it carefully this time.

i feel sorry for your students

I'm sure you do. Use of empirical, scientific evidence in conjunction with logical reasoning to support a proposed theory or hypothesis is anathema to you. That's what I demand of my students. And will continue to do so.

 

[cannot]

"largely proven"

 

[Thrawn]

atom theory has been around for 2500 odd years

i think a few people here need a history lesson

Hilarious you say that considering it's been known since ancient Greek times that the world isn't flat. They even calculated the circumference of the Earth and weren't far off.

 

[Roylion]

dont you feel like a fraud when you explain to them how questionable unproven maths-theory albert made up or newtons infinitesimals mumbo?

Not at all. I've already said any theory will not become part of any school curriculum until that theory is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and by the overwhelming consensus of science experts working in the relevant scientific fields.

do you explain how there hasnt been scientific proof the earth motion or how atmospheric refraction allows you to see things that are not there ?

We explain what evidence exists for those theories and how and (where relevant) why it is the prevailing view amongst the scientific community.

i hope you specify how the jesuit (big bang), inbred (evolution), psychopathic occult (newton) theories are indeed hole riddle theories and not much more

Any theory will not become part of any school curriculum until that theory is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and by the overwhelming consensus of modern science experts working in the relevant scientific fields.

Scientists have extreme confidence that the scientific theory of evolution, (the model of evolution), is correct because every piece of empirical evidence (and there are multiple hundred of thousands of pieces across a variety of fields including biochemisty, comparative anatomy, bio-geography, comparative embryology, molecular biology, palaeontology and radioisotope dating,) collected thus far supports that theory / model. No piece of empirical evidence has falsified that theory / model.

The 'Big Bang Theory' is the prevailing cosmological model, for reasons already explained.

Both (quite rightly) are taught in science curriculums across the nation and world. Newton's study of the occult and alchemy is not.

 

[Roylion]

"largely proven"

Nowhere did I say 'largely proven'. That is your spin.

 

[cannot]

roy old chap,

do you teach the flaws in the theories too?

or do you leave those parts out?

now that roy has joined the party our learned comrade can hopfully help with the next part --->

Hilarious you say that considering it's been known since ancient Greek times that the world isn't flat. They even calculated the circumference of the Earth and weren't far off.

I have doubts this is correct.

most the ancients in history thought the world was flat, as far as i know. yes, some greeks, at some time periods thought otherwise but ive yet to see evidence it was widely known, there after in western or global history. one calculation (which was pretty far off) with sticks did does not equate that humans in history were aware of this in the mainstream

information gets lost over time, there was no wiki. there are many things we dont know about the ancient greeks because they thought it was so obvious there was no point writing it down

Copernicus & kepler are important historically because they came up with the new model around 1600 at the about time of modern physics (not long after the formation of the society of jesus of course)

"We are more gullible and superstitious today than we were in the Middle Ages, and an example of modern credulity is the widespread belief that the Earth is round. The average man can advance not a single reason for thinking that the Earth is round. He merely swallows this theory because there is something about it that appeals to the twentieth century mentality."

ive been told the below is "a myth" in regard to middle age mentality and yet not much proof (a theme with the globers) has been presented as of yet

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I honestly didn't know flat earth was a thing before I read this thread. I mean a notion that any person living felt the need to champion, let alone demand research funding and inclusion in school programs.

I did meet a guy who was pretty persuaded that Elvis wasn't dead once, but I was reasonably certain he was on something.

It's not really a thing....

Well, no more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster.....only difference is the FSM followers know it's a joke.

 

[cannot]

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”

 

[Roylion]

do you teach the flaws in the theories too?

I teach what the theories are, why they are held and what the scientific evidence is in support of that theory. I've already outlined in brief how that is done for evolution and the Big Bang Theory. I also teach, where relevant, what evidence would falsify that theory. From that you should be able to be infer how other scientific theories are taught.

or do you leave those parts out?

I do not teach conspiracy theories or alternate theories not supported by the consensus of scientific evidence / community. In the study of ancient history, for example, I make it very clear that the archaeology for example, does not support many of the events of the Old Testament and that, as such, many of the events / beliefs described can only be regarded as myths and/or legends.

most the ancients in history thought the world was flat, as far as i know. yes, some greeks, at some time periods thought otherwise but ive yet to see evidence it was widely known, there after in western or global history. one calculation (which was pretty far off) with sticks did does not equate that humans in history were aware of this in the mainstream

Do you actually do any research yourself? Why don't you look up Pythagoras, Parmenides, Aristotle, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Strabo, Pliny the Elder, Macrobius and Martianus Capella and see what they said on the subject of a spherical earth?

As for the Middle Ages, a doctoral thesis by Klaus Vogel in 1995, noted that "since the eighth century, no cosmographer worthy of note has called into question the sphericity of the Earth."

A non-exhaustive list of medieval scholars and writers that accepted the earth was spherical includes

Bede, Theodulf of Orléans, Vergilius of Salzburg, Irish monk Dicuil, Rabanus Maurus, King Alfred of England, Remigius of Auxerre, Johannes Scotus Eriugena, Leo of Naples, Gerbert d’Aurillac (Pope Sylvester II), Notker the German of Sankt-Gallen, Hermann of Reichenau, Hildegard von Bingen, Petrus Abaelardus, Honorius Augustodunensis, Gautier de Metz, Adam of Bremen, Albertus Magnus, Thomas Aquinas, Berthold of Regensburg, Guillaume de Conches, Philippe de Thaon, Abu-Idrisi, Bernardus Silvestris, Petrus Comestor, Thierry de Chartres, Gautier de Châtillon, Alexander Neckam, Alain de Lille, Averroes, Snorri Sturluson, Moshe ben Maimon, Lambert of Saint-Omer, Gervasius of Tilbury, Robert Grosseteste, Johannes de Sacrobosco, Thomas de Cantimpré, Peire de Corbian, Vincent de Beauvais, Robertus Anglicus, Juan Gil de Zámora, Ristoro d'Arezzo, Roger Bacon, Jean de Meung, Brunetto Latini, Alfonso X of Castile, Marco Polo, Dante Alighieri, Meister Eckhart, Enea Silvio Piccolomini (Pope Pius II), Perot de Garbalei,, Cecco d'Ascoli, Fazio degli Uberti, Levi ben Gershon, Konrad of Megenberg, Nicole Oresme, Petrus Aliacensis, Alfonso de la Torre, Toscanelli, Brochard the German, Jean de Mandeville, Christine de Pizan, Geoffrey Chaucer, William Caxton, Martin Behaim and Christopher Columbus.

Source: Reinhard Kruger, "The spherical shape of the earth and the global design of the earth in the Middle Ages." Kruger was the Professor for Romance literature at University of Stuttgart.

Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell, of the University of California at Santa Barbara wrote "In Inventing the Flat Earth", (1991) claims that since the third century BC, practically all educated people in the western world believed in a spherical earth.

Looking as a historian into the historical record, he found tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists and scientists who believed that the earth was a sphere.

On the other hand, Russell could find only five Christian authorities who believed in a flat earth.

Russell wrote: "In the first fifteen centuries of the Christian era, five writers seem to have denied the globe, and a few others were ambiguous or uninterested in the question. But nearly unanimous scholarly opinion pronounced the earth spherical, and by the fifteenth century all doubt had disappeared."

In fact, Burton found that the myth that Europeans believed in a flat earth was started in the 1830s by a Frenchman and an American, acting independently. The Frenchman was Antoine-Jean Letronne (1787–1848), an anti-religious academic of great renown. He wrote "On the Cosmographical Ideas of the Church Fathers" in 1834. He deliberately misrepresented medieval Christians as being scientifically ignorant, and his supposed proof for this incorrect claim was that they believed in a flat earth. The American identified by Burton was Washington Irving (1783–1859), who wrote a history of Christopher Columbus in 1828.

 

[CJApples87]

I teach what the theories are, why they are held and what the scientific evidence is in support of that theory. I've already outlined in brief how that is done for evolution and the Big Bang Theory. I also teach, where relevant, what evidence would falsify that theory. From that you should be able to be infer how other scientific theories are taught.



I do not teach conspiracy theories or alternate theories not supported by the consensus of scientific evidence / community. In the study of ancient history, for example, I make it very clear that the archaeology for example, does not support many of the events of the Old Testament and that many of the events / beliefs described can only be regarded as myths and/or legends.



Do you actually do any research yourself? Why don't you look up Pythagoras, Parmenides, Aristotle, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Pliny the Elder, Macrobius and Martianus Capella and see what they said on the subject of a spherical earth?

Cannot has an entire thread based on a guy called Math Powerland and was completely unaware of his background. Unless one of those historical figures has easily accessible memes about them, he won't know what they did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katana]

No it does not. Conspiracy theories and pseudo-science have NO place in the teaching of science.

i agree. why then are we teaching children to memorise inconsequential 'facts' about the 'solar system' before they've an understanding of logic or scientific method and rigor? it is not 'science' to teach children the solar system before they can understand how humans supposedly came to know this.

the reality is that cosmology and archaeology are pseudoscience in a very real way - they cannot, within their experiments manipulate or control independent variables. it requires a nuanced and open mind to process this reality because to do so is to reject so much of the nonsense perpetuated in the media and the 'education system'. i wish you all the best in your journey.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

i agree. why then are we teaching children to memorise inconsequential 'facts' about the 'solar system' before they've an understanding of logic or scientific method and rigor? it is not 'science' to teach children the solar system before they can understand how humans supposedly came to know this.

the reality is that cosmology and archaeology are pseudoscience in a very real way - they cannot, within their experiments manipulate or control independent variables. it requires a nuanced and open mind to process this reality because to do so is to reject so much of the nonsense perpetuated in the media and the 'education system'. i wish you all the best in your journey.

What facts about the solar system are they being taught to memorize, that you think they shouldnt be until they understand physics?