Preview The forward line setup!

[nut]

No they wont

Really? who takes their spot then ?

 

[XYZ123]

I like your idea. To give some solace to the anti-McGuane crowd I would say that the McGuane role could also be played by up to half a dozen other players, including Astbury and A. Edwards.

The downside of this is there will be an opponent either filling the hole for Riewoldt to lead into, or double teaming Riewoldt. After all, they will have a spare man there.

I expect us to have midfielders bombing it from 50 a lot this year too. We'll kick a lot of points but that is the trade off if we have 7 in the backline.

I agree about the spare man back, however we would have one spare back as well.

Alternatively as you alluded to in your second your second point about long range shots on goal, we could also play an very high half forward (as in between 50 and 60 metres out from goal). A player like this would have license to bomb it from 55 odd there is no option in the 50.

Ideally this player would be the perfect position for Knights (however Deledio, Newman and Houli can also play this role rotating through their regular positions as the are accurate over long distances but can also hit a pass).

 

[Put a Lids on it]

Vickery needs a haircut so he can see what the hell is going on it's just bad, lol.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Bombing it long into the F50 is a strategic dinosaur that has been forced into extinction by highly skilled, well drilled sides, premiership sides. Look at the premiers from the last few years and focus on their backlines. Those guys will pick off slip-shod entries and makes us pay very dearly. We will NEVER win a premiership unless the majority of our forward entries are directed at leading targets (or at least those in an advantageous position.)

 

[tiggywigs]

Bombing it long into the F50 is a strategic dinosaur that has been forced into extinction by highly skilled, well drilled sides, premiership sides. Look at the premiers from the last few years and focus on their backlines. Those guys will pick off slip-shod entries and makes us pay very dearly. We will NEVER win a premiership unless the majority of our forward entries are directed at leading targets (or at least those in an advantageous position.)

You make a good point, but only as far as it goes. No one is seriously arguing for a bomb long on all attacks approach. Rather, there is a strand of thought that says we have to have the option of going long or otherwise our goal approach will become predictable and therefore more easily defended against. Adaptability/creativity (plus skill) in attack is extremely hard to defend against and is always present in premiership sides.

Our problems in attack have been the subject of much debate. It's clear that a good lead-up forward with a decent hoof would take a lot of pressure off Jack, our only gun contested mark KPF. But a second contested mark option is needed as well to keep the defenders honest. A mobile third option would create havoc for the opposing defence (and help open our premiership window).

 

[theflea]

You make a good point, but only as far as it goes. No one is seriously arguing for a bomb long on all attacks approach. Rather, there is a strand of thought that says we have to have the option of going long or otherwise our goal approach will become predictable and therefore more easily defended against. Adaptability/creativity (plus skill) in attack is extremely hard to defend against and is always present in premiership sides.

Our problems in attack have been the subject of much debate. It's clear that a good lead-up forward with a decent hoof would take a lot of pressure off Jack, our only gun contested mark KPF. But a second contested mark option is needed as well to keep the defenders honest. A mobile third option would create havoc for the opposing defence (and help open our premiership window).

This is where the mids have to be drilled enough to LOOK for the 1st option ie the leading fwd, 2nd option the fwd in an advatagous position but then kick it to his advantage and finally the 3rd and default option kicking to a contest and relying on a mark or stoppage with the crimbers coming in as well. It also comes down to the fwds TIMING the leads properly.

 

[THE_GUN]

Watching tonights game has reinforced my view about our round 1 clash with carlton and our Foward structure
I believe that we should go in with only 2 Big Fowards in Riewoldt & Vickery and have King,Sheds,Nahas around them and the 6th foward 1 of the resting Delidio,Newman,Martin,Cotchin.

Carltons backline looked very suspect against the brisbane small/medium fowards

 

[telsor]

I wanted him as a CHF, I really did.

But then I saw him kicking out from full back. With the advantage of the goal square, plus how far he can kick it, even if the opposition do mark it they will be marking it close to the wing. I think this is a huge advantage to us.

Maybe he can play CHF but take all the kickouts from FB

I think they've got that move 1 kick off.

Play him 30-40 out from the kick ins, and if he looks like he gets free or has a very good matchup (lets face it, he's BIG and can take a grab) then kick it to him...He then turns around and bang...The ball is on the edge of our F50.

As a bonus, he could play that role from CHF.

 

[telsor]

Really? who takes their spot then ?

I see Newman taking King's spot...Defensive minded forward who can act as a general up there. He's bigger, a better player generally, and more particularly has a much longer/more accurate kick on him. The only downside I see to it is his age means it's only a relatively short term fix.

 

[nut]

I see Newman taking King's spot...Defensive minded forward who can act as a general up there. He's bigger, a better player generally, and more particularly has a much longer/more accurate kick on him. The only downside I see to it is his age means it's only a relatively short term fix.

Not sure yet where they will play Newman... But if King is fit he will play and Nahas has booked himself a spot already IMO.

Need to stop thinking short term fixes are bad, those days are over....... We are now playing for the moment.

 

[tiggywigs]

Watching tonights game has reinforced my view about our round 1 clash with carlton and our Foward structure
I believe that we should go in with only 2 Big Fowards in Riewoldt & Vickery and have King,Sheds,Nahas around them and the 6th foward 1 of the resting Delidio,Newman,Martin,Cotchin.

Carltons backline looked very suspect against the brisbane small/medium fowards

Carlton got smashed in the middle (apart from the second quarter), which meant the Lions had plenty of options going forward.

Carlton's defence looked a lot more solid in the second quarter when their midfield held the ascendancy.

Carlton's level of intensity around the ball for the majority of the match was well down on what it is likely to be come round one.

That means we will have to make a lot more entries from defence than Brisbane did last night (though to be fair when they did that the Lions looked surprisingly good).

Moving the ball forward from our defence will generally give their defence much more time to get organised, hence the need for a joint marking/crumbing attack via an aerial contest when the lead up options have been covered.

Having only two talls will drastically increase the chance of the high ball being a low percentage play.

Given that our midfield contain a lot of crumbing goal kickers that can get involved in scoring entries (not just when resting), I would be a lot more comfortable with a third (mobile) tall.

And we have an option.

For all his faults (real or imagined), McGuanne is mobile, has a good attack on the contest and can clunk them.

(Cue for the daggers and throwing axes.)

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Why didn't we take the best KPF from the state leagues with our Aaron Edwards pick, surely this would've helped our structure more than AE?

 

[THE_GUN]

@ Tiggywiggs

2 tall marking fowards are sufficient to establish what you have mentioned, Also with the defence including Rance,Chaplin,Batchelor,Griffiths we have that 3rd tall in griffiths to create that 3rd tall option if required as batchelor can also play the negating tall option.

Martin,Delidio,Newman,Cotchin,Houli & even Tuck & Grigg at times are long goal kickers, a few of our goals will be kicked from 30-50 out from goal by these players.
King,Nahas,S.Edwards will be extremely dangerous around goal as well as giving us alot of defensive pressure in our foward line. I honestly believe that carlton will struggle to cover 3 smalls whilst alsokeeping tabs on our rotating mids

HF: Newman - Vickery - S.Edwards
F: Nahas - Riewoldt - King
With Rotations of Delidio,Martin,Cotchin,Tuck,Conca

 

[theflea]

Watching tonights game has reinforced my view about our round 1 clash with carlton and our Foward structure
I believe that we should go in with only 2 Big Fowards in Riewoldt & Vickery and have King,Sheds,Nahas around them and the 6th foward 1 of the resting Delidio,Newman,Martin,Cotchin.

Carltons backline looked very suspect against the brisbane small/medium fowards

Yes gun they way the lions went about it is something i want to see with our fwd line.

 

[tiggywigs]

Yes gun they way the lions went about it is something i want to see with our fwd line.

I think I get your point and that of 'The Gun'.

The Lions were able to slice through the Blues defence like butter - but only when they were in control of the midfield.

I just don't think we will dominate the midfield battle.

At best, we will break even, which means lots of slower entries into the forward fifty.

That will expose Riewoldt to triple teaming because Vicks doesn't command that much respect at this stage of his career.

That means the long bomb attack will have an even lower probability than usual, which means our options going into attack will become very predictable and easier to counter.

A third marking tall will make it much harder for Carlton to triple or even double team Jack, and will force them to spread their defence.

By spreading their defence, we will increase the potency of our goal kicking mids (whether they are resting deep or following the ball into attack) by giving them more space to operate in.

Rather than the game against the Lions, I reckon we have to look at the pressure cooker games played at finals time to understand what is likely to happen in round one in front of 70k plus fans.

Vicks just doesn't have the presence to take the pressure off Jack by himself and it's a bit early to expect that Griff can play the swing job up forward to great effect (assuming that he can be spared down back).

McGuane is spectacularly unpopular with BF posters, but he actually has the physicality, speed and hands to cause Carlton a lot of trouble.

I guess we'll soon find out what Dimma and his brains' trust think - and how that works out.

 

[theflea]

I think I get your point and that of 'The Gun'.

The Lions were able to slice through the Blues defence like butter - but only when they were in control of the midfield.

I just don't think we will dominate the midfield battle.

At best, we will break even, which means lots of slower entries into the forward fifty.

That will expose Riewoldt to triple teaming because Vicks doesn't command that much respect at this stage of his career.

That means the long bomb attack will have an even lower probability than usual, which means our options going into attack will become very predictable and easier to counter.

A third marking tall will make it much harder for Carlton to triple or even double team Jack, and will force them to spread their defence.

By spreading their defence, we will increase the potency of our goal kicking mids (whether they are resting deep or following the ball into attack) by giving them more space to operate in.

Rather than the game against the Lions, I reckon we have to look at the pressure cooker games played at finals time to understand what is likely to happen in round one in front of 70k plus fans.

Vicks just doesn't have the presence to take the pressure off Jack by himself and it's a bit early to expect that Griff can play the swing job up forward to great effect (assuming that he can be spared down back).

McGuane is spectacularly unpopular with BF posters, but he actually has the physicality, speed and hands to cause Carlton a lot of trouble.

I guess we'll soon find out what Dimma and his brains' trust think - and how that works out.

We can do it imo but we have to change the way we do our fwd system plans.

 

[nut]

If you want to see what we are trying to do re:forwardline then watch Freo...

 

[BC9_]

Ahh, what forward line setup?

Being cheeky here.

 

[nut]

Ahh, what forward line setup?

Being cheeky here.

Well you are right... its more of a defensive set up in the forwardline. For Freo to win in the past they needed Pav to kick 6... tonight he hardly touched it but what he did do was hold the ball in etc...

 

[theflea]

Well you are right... its more of a defensive set up in the forwardline. For Freo to win in the past they needed Pav to kick 6... tonight he hardly touched it but what he did do was hold the ball in etc...

the only problem about that nut is we definately dont defend like freo.

 

[nut]

the only problem about that nut is we definately dont defend like freo.

But its what we are working towards IMO..... it explains why Jack doesnt lead and if he does its to the pockets where we can force a stoppage if he doesnt mark the ball.
On a side note it makes the recruitment of Aaron Edwards seem very strange.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

But its what we are working towards IMO..... it explains why Jack doesnt lead and if he does its to the pockets where we can force a stoppage if he doesnt mark the ball.
On a side note it makes the recruitment of Aaron Edwards seem very strange.

Why play Vickery who ain't great in chasing and Nahas who is ordinary in tight contested footy ?
Astbury should be playing as our lead up full forward and Griffith should be playing CHF 45-50 Metres out , well within his range , and Jack should be our 3rd tall .

 

[BC9_]

Well you are right... its more of a defensive set up in the forwardline. For Freo to win in the past they needed Pav to kick 6... tonight he hardly touched it but what he did do was hold the ball in etc...

I don't think we can get a decent forward line setup without Vickery playing well.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I don't think we can get a decent forward line setup without Vickery playing well.

I agree...
I'll go even further and suggest if we dont have a hard nosed physical presence at CHF willing to put his body on the line and intimidate the opposition backs...
Willing to fly for and contest marks in the Forward line...to crash packs and spill the ball for our crumbers...to help lock the ball inside our 50 meter arc..
We will struggle both score and game wise... ...

 

[theflea]

But its what we are working towards IMO..... it explains why Jack doesnt lead and if he does its to the pockets where we can force a stoppage if he doesnt mark the ball.
On a side note it makes the recruitment of Aaron Edwards seem very strange.

I can understand what we are trying to do, its just we still have to be more clinical in our approach.