The France attacks - debate thread (trigger warning)

[DarkPhoenix]

All talk moved to the lounge, condolences, information and debate all in here. Updated: 22/11/2015

 

[Flawed Genius]

This is a fantastic resource on what ISIS wants and why, and why their own operation is on a hair trigger as soon as it starts. Pretty essential reading if you are to understand why they do what they do. Very well researched.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...sis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFTwitter

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...611755418?sv=d69493d595bd7847b3eeee18a138dc7f


Special thanks to the Grand Mufti....


Worried about the innocent dying???? nope.

Just the ensuring Islamaphobia.


Give me a ****ing spell.

 

[Dodecahedron]

Everyone please stop calling this scum ISIS or ISIL.
It legitimizes them and their cause.
We are being encouraged to called them Daesh. They don't like it.
Spread the word.

 

[Event Horizon]

Europe (France included) have been fighting over in the Middle East for centuries, even during the Napoleon years.
And yet, there was never any bloodshed back home as a result of it. So what's different now?
Two things mainly. One, Europe is now so much weaker than it was, and so politically correct, and secondly, Islamist fanatics don't have to go far to cause carnage, as they are already living in Europe.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

If they don't like it I'll say it non stop for a week straight. Have noticed the media switch to using it a lot recently.


Hacker group anonymous French members have declared cyber war on daesh.

They did something similar after the hebdo attacks and got a major recruiting site taken down and up to 2k social media accounts of AL queda closed.

 

[Event Horizon]

Everyone please stop calling this scum ISIS or ISIL.
It legitimizes them and their cause.
We are being encouraged to called them Daesh. They don't like it.
Spread the word.

Mate, I heard this crap on Neil Mitchell program yesterday. Crock of shit if you ask me.
ISIS don't give two hoots about how we call them. They couldn't care less. And it won't make any difference to this problem.

What will make a difference, is that anyone suspected of radical plans or thoughts should be either jailed or better still deported. Not merely remaining free as a person of interest. And anyone going to Middle East to fight should remain there. No right of return.

 

[giantroo]

Europe (France included) have been fighting over in the Middle East for centuries, even during the Napoleon years.
And yet, there was never any bloodshed back home as a result of it. So what's different now?
Two things mainly. One, Europe is now so much weaker than it was, and so politically correct, and secondly, Islamist fanatics don't have to go far to cause carnage, as they are already living in Europe.

Can I ask you why they have migrated to Europe? Was it to cause carnage or what it for something else? Do you think they would leave their homes if it wasn't in peace?

 

[Event Horizon]

Can I ask you why they have migrated to Europe? Was it to cause carnage or what it for something else? Do you think they would leave their homes if it wasn't in peace?

For most people, it was just to live in better conditions and live in peace.
There is no doubt, that most people and Muslims included are decent people.
However, this doesn't change the fact that there is radical element to Islam that needs to be eradicated, with the help of Muslim leaders if possible.

 

[giantroo]

For most people, it was just to live in better conditions and live in peace.
There is no doubt, that most people and Muslims included are decent people.
However, this doesn't change the fact that there is radical element to Islam that needs to be eradicated, with the help of Muslim leaders if possible.

As you said, better conditions and to live in peace. What caused the deterioration in the first place?

 

[Event Horizon]

As you said, better conditions and to live in peace. What caused the deterioration in the first place?

I don't think you can say it's purely western fault. Although there is an element of that.
Lebanon has been devastated by civil war. Syria the same. It's not West's fault that dictators like Asad, Sadam, and Kaddafi did this to their own people for decades.

 

[giantroo]

I don't think you can say it's purely western fault. Although there is an element of that.
Lebanon has been devastated by civil war. Syria the same. It's not West's fault that dictators like Asad, Sadam, and Kaddafi did this to their own people for decades.

It is a massive element. Resources being a massive factor. And those dictators were not there before the lands were pillaged. Let me be clear that people do not jump on a boat to another land just for fun.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

http://www.news.com.au/video/id-B3eDZ2eDpRNd6risb93Ypc6960xm_5I1/What-ISIL-wants


I know a lot of people on here don't rate Waleed Aly but he's made a few really good points (again).

 

[Flawed Genius]

To be totally fair I don't think there's a bloke sitting in Raqqa reading Bigfooty going "bloody flaming hell they're calling us Da'esh again!"

 

[giantroo]

To be totally fair I don't think there's a bloke sitting in Raqqa reading Bigfooty going "bloody flaming hell they're calling us Da'esh again!"

Not so much us, but definitely in Syria. People do get attacked and killed for it. Ironically, it was Assad who came up with the term to describe them and it was then picked up by Arab media after Daesh started killing high profile rebel leaders.

 

[chugginon]

If they don't like it I'll say it non stop for a week straight. Have noticed the media switch to using it a lot recently.


Hacker group anonymous French members have declared cyber war on daesh.

They did something similar after the hebdo attacks and got a major recruiting site taken down and up to 2k social media accounts of AL queda closed.

Just reading re that group on twitter . Haven't heard of them before

 

[giantroo]

Just reading re that group on twitter . Haven't heard of them before

Well they recently released names of members of the KKK group in America which brought up some high profile names. They will be doing the same with Daesh.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Just reading re that group on twitter . Haven't heard of them before

Really? Massive group, started on a board I used to frequent.

They've done some pretty impressive stuff with limited resources.
Made life hell for KKK members, bringing down their websites and causing them a large amount of financial pain.
Released information that led to Chinese military cyberattacks against the US being found.
Regularly track down and close down online pedophile networks.

Just don't confuse Anonymous the hacktivist group with Anonymous the general term for a user from 4chan (they've done some pretty shit stuff).

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Well they recently released names of members of the KKK group in America which brought up some high profile names. They will be doing the same with Daesh.

Those names released were incorrect and not released by Anonymous, it was another group trying to discredit anonymous by releasing false information, it caused a lot of pain for high ranking officials that work with the black communities of america.

 

[chugginon]

Really? Massive group, started on a board I used to frequent.

They've done some pretty impressive stuff with limited resources.
Made life hell for KKK members, bringing down their websites and causing them a large amount of financial pain.
Released information that led to Chinese military cyberattacks against the US being found.
Regularly track down and close down online pedophile networks.

Just don't confuse Anonymous the hacktivist group with Anonymous the general term for a user from 4chan (they've done some pretty shit stuff).

Well they recently released names of members of the KKK group in America which brought up some high profile names. They will be doing the same with Daesh.

I don't know how I missed the name of the group

 

[Feerits Elf]

Everyone please stop calling this scum ISIS or ISIL.
It legitimizes them and their cause.
We are being encouraged to called them Daesh. They don't like it.
Spread the word.

Yeah, but I prefer ISIS so I'll use that thanks.

 

[giantroo]

Also, US secretary of state John Kerry has repeatedly argued that Bashar Al Assad was a magnet for terrorists – a point that the Syrian president vigorously protested against at the weekend, arguing that it is the West and “especially France” that is to blame for Friday’s attacks in Paris. Mr Kerry has also stated that Mr Al Assad’s removal is vital for any hope for peace in the country.

Actually both are equally responsible. Assad should have been removed the moment he used chemical weapons killing 1500 people with 500 children among the casualties.

That fact he is still standing is why Daesh is there.




Coverage between Assad and Daesh even though what they have done is minuscule compared to what Assad has done. Only difference it they have targeted the west via social media and the media has given them what they have wanted.

 

[giantroo]

Really? Massive group, started on a board I used to frequent.

They've done some pretty impressive stuff with limited resources.
Made life hell for KKK members, bringing down their websites and causing them a large amount of financial pain.
Released information that led to Chinese military cyberattacks against the US being found.
Regularly track down and close down online pedophile networks.

Just don't confuse Anonymous the hacktivist group with Anonymous the general term for a user from 4chan (they've done some pretty shit stuff).

And on queue


Anonymous ‏@YourAnonCentral

One day after declaring war on ISIS, #Anonymous has taken down over 3,800 ISIS Twitter accounts.

 

[tiltraise]

Then ignore the religious side of it because there are some people on the board that are religious.

Not saying I'm necessarily a card carrying catholic or anything but I at least have the decency to allow others to express their sympathy as they wish and if it doesn't affect myself or others why should it matter.

Nothing against you mate its just that I find the constant barrage of religious doctrine deeply offensive.

It infests nearly every part of daily life you just cant get away from it.

I thought BF was a haven but alas there it was again staring me in the face on the NMFC board of all places.

I know you meant no offence and your heart was in the right place but to say it doesnt effect others simply isnt true.

 

[chugginon]

And on queue


Anonymous ‏@YourAnonCentral

One day after declaring war on ISIS, #Anonymous has taken down over 3,800 ISIS Twitter accounts.

Wow Just wow I will be reading more