The health of the game

[magpies42]

I wonder what our game will look like 10 years from now, and whether it will be worth watching. There has been a strong and persistent move away from hard at it contested football, the physical aspect is slowly being legislated out of the game. The trend is concerning for me as a fan. The physicality is the key differentiator, and our games point of difference. The shift to running up and down the ground like a basketball team, rubbing players out for next to no contact, outlawing the good old shirt front and bone crunching tackles...these are all aspects that make our game unique.

I can see the reasons why concussion is cause for concern and the duty of care from a legal perspective, and although causality has not yet been entirely established I can see the writing on the wall.

Has anybody else seen this as deterioration and a move away from what football is supposed to be, or are you happy with the state of the game and the way things are heading?

 

[TradeDraft]

Chance it be Touch Footy with all the Concussions

 

[magpies42]

Chance it be Touch Footy with all the Concussions

That’s my concern, at times it reminds me of basketball than football.

 

[bunter]

From my perspective, footy has evolved over the years from a brutal physical contest with some real hit men / hard men ruling the roost to one with some incredibly athletic players with equally the same desire for the ball rather than the man. Instead of the hard men decking blokes behind the play we now have the hard men refusing to move off their line in the attack on the ball, awesome stuff. I loved footy in the old days but equally love it now, brutal no compromise footy. The rules as always will follow the current social feeling but a quick trip to your local footy ground will quickly show you what an incredibly unique game we have with regards to contact.
Having said all that, in any era we have all seen the elite stars, fair and skilled that would walk into any team.
I’m not rubbishing your concern but footy is moving with the times, away from trench warfare to mobile warfare. It won’t survive if concussion concerns are not taken into account, it’s still a bloody hard game to be played with a decent amount of courage if you want to play at the highest level.

 

[Kappa]

I wonder what our game will look like 10 years from now, and whether it will be worth watching. There has been a strong and persistent move away from hard at it contested football, the physical aspect is slowly being legislated out of the game. The trend is concerning for me as a fan. The physicality is the key differentiator, and our games point of difference. The shift to running up and down the ground like a basketball team, rubbing players out for next to no contact, outlawing the good old shirt front and bone crunching tackles...these are all aspects that make our game unique.

I can see the reasons why concussion is cause for concern and the duty of care from a legal perspective, and although causality has not yet been entirely established I can see the writing on the wall.

Has anybody else seen this as deterioration and a move away from what football is supposed to be, or are you happy with the state of the game and the way things are heading?

The reality is players have never been stronger, faster or fitter than today, and the hits are a LOT harder and happen way more often than in the past with amateur players.

Yes, there is a lot less fights and coward punches in the modern game, and players do get suspended more for hitting opponents heads...but is that a bad thing?

You act like that will turn away fans, when in reality the mothers who watch the sport don't want their kids playing a brutal and dangerous game, when they see all in fights and coward punches they are more likely to put their kids in soccer or basketball teams instead

 

[TradeDraft]

That’s my concern, at times it reminds me of basketball than football.

Also Rugby with the Huge Scrums

 

[Robroy22]

The reality is players have never been stronger, faster or fitter than today, and the hits are a LOT harder and happen way more often than in the past with amateur players.

Yes, there is a lot less fights and coward punches in the modern game, and players do get suspended more for hitting opponents heads...but is that a bad thing?

You act like that will turn away fans, when in reality the mothers who watch the sport don't want their kids playing a brutal and dangerous game, when they see all in fights and coward punches they are more likely to put their kids in soccer or basketball teams instead

Don't bite Rob....don't bite Rob....just DON'T bite Rob!!!

 

[JB1975]

I sometimes wonder if I enjoy footy as much as I used to, for a number of reasons, but there has never been any doubt in my mind that the game continues to be a grueling physical contest which demands as much mental toughness and fortitude as it ever did.

My recommendation is to sit close to the boundary, listen to the clash of athletic bodies being hurled at each other at high velocity. Nothing soft to be seen there.

 

[magpies42]

I sometimes wonder if I enjoy footy as much as I used to, for a number of reasons, but there has never been any doubt in my mind that the game continues to be a grueling physical contest which demands as much mental toughness and fortitude as it ever did.

My recommendation is to sit close to the boundary, listen to the clash of athletic bodies being hurled at each other at high velocity. Nothing soft to be seen there.

Absolutely still a hard game

The reality is players have never been stronger, faster or fitter than today, and the hits are a LOT harder and happen way more often than in the past with amateur players.

Yes, there is a lot less fights and coward punches in the modern game, and players do get suspended more for hitting opponents heads...but is that a bad thing?

You act like that will turn away fans, when in reality the mothers who watch the sport don't want their kids playing a brutal and dangerous game, when they see all in fights and coward punches they are more likely to put their kids in soccer or basketball teams instead

From my perspective, footy has evolved over the years from a brutal physical contest with some real hit men / hard men ruling the roost to one with some incredibly athletic players with equally the same desire for the ball rather than the man. Instead of the hard men decking blokes behind the play we now have the hard men refusing to move off their line in the attack on the ball, awesome stuff. I loved footy in the old days but equally love it now, brutal no compromise footy. The rules as always will follow the current social feeling but a quick trip to your local footy ground will quickly show you what an incredibly unique game we have with regards to contact.
Having said all that, in any era we have all seen the elite stars, fair and skilled that would walk into any team.
I’m not rubbishing your concern but footy is moving with the times, away from trench warfare to mobile warfare. It won’t survive if concussion concerns are not taken into account, it’s still a bloody hard game to be played with a decent amount of courage if you want to play at the highest level.

It is absolutely still a tough game, and more is required of the player today than ever before. That goes for a lot of sports though.

I’m not talking about knocking guys out behind the play, there is no courage in that...something changed for me when Nic Nat got suspended for tackling Karl Amon a couple of seasons ago.

They have relaxed the rule recently but it s**t me when a free kick was given for a tackle that slipped ever so slightly above the shoulder line. Again I understand the reasons behind it, and understand the reasons why we look after the head, but it is a deviation from what I grew up watching and what I understand football to be. Today’s game is still tough and good viewing, but the concern I have is 10 years from now if the current trend continues what will we be watching?!

 

[Kappa]

Don't bite Rob....don't bite Rob....just DON'T bite Rob!!!

Please don't argue with reality!

Do you think Olympic athletes were stronger and fitter in the 80s too?

 

[noideaatall]

Sorry to be direct on this but we could all teleport back to Rome and gladiators 2k years ago if that is what we think sport is all about.

I am 56 so grew up in an age where footy was not touch footy. I loved watching the physical and brutal side of footy in the 80/90's, I've grown up from that. Two years ago I took my six year old to play his first game of footy. He was wearing runners playing on an eight year old wearing studs who spent the whole game threatening to jump on his feet. My little boy has never been interested in footy since. We have spent his whole life teaching him violence is not the answer, so has his school and every other adult institution in his life. We won't be back.

I carry injuries from my sporting days, I am sure most of you do. They are a part of any sporting game where your body is put on the line. Any attempt to reduce those injuries, particularly those deliberately caused, is ok by me. The world has changed, if footy doesn't it will die anyway. For those who lament they no longer get to watch and celebrate injuries I suggest they find a teleport. Or pull on a jumper and become the watched. Polly Farmer was a hero, Sam Newman has always been an idiot. I wonder what they will find if his brain is donated.

 

[Markfs]

The reality is players have never been stronger, faster or fitter than today, and the hits are a LOT harder and happen way more often than in the past with amateur players.

Yes, there is a lot less fights and coward punches in the modern game, and players do get suspended more for hitting opponents heads...but is that a bad thing?

You act like that will turn away fans, when in reality the mothers who watch the sport don't want their kids playing a brutal and dangerous game, when they see all in fights and coward punches they are more likely to put their kids in soccer or basketball teams instead

well said. I just had a look at the 1966 grand final.
Not that i wanted to take too much of it but after 10 minutes, i saw a lot of shocking kicking, very little tackling and strangely UNdesperate players. If the video didn't say it I wouldnt have thought this was a grand final from the lack of pressure. You do see a few arms being thrown around and probably a few of them hit opponents in the face.......and i saw a few nice uncontested marks......but nothing to reminisce about...

 

[domus]

Sorry to be direct on this but we could all teleport back to Rome and gladiators 2k years ago if that is what we think sport is all about.

I am 56 so grew up in an age where footy was not touch footy. I loved watching the physical and brutal side of footy in the 80/90's, I've grown up from that. Two years ago I took my six year old to play his first game of footy. He was wearing runners playing on an eight year old wearing studs who spent the whole game threatening to jump on his feet. My little boy has never been interested in footy since. We have spent his whole life teaching him violence is not the answer, so has his school and every other adult institution in his life. We won't be back.

I carry injuries from my sporting days, I am sure most of you do. They are a part of any sporting game where your body is put on the line. Any attempt to reduce those injuries, particularly those deliberately caused, is ok by me. The world has changed, if footy doesn't it will die anyway. For those who lament they no longer get to watch and celebrate injuries I suggest they find a teleport. Or pull on a jumper and become the watched. Polly Farmer was a hero, Sam Newman has always been an idiot. I wonder what they will find if his brain is donated.

Why not ban the punch in boxing? No-one is forced to play the game. Every collision sport presents the possibility of concussion. We have brought in new rules which protect the player's head when he is attacking the pill. To even contemplate eliminating the bump is ridiculous. The game will become unrecognizable. The courage required to play our game is an important part of what makes watching it such an intoxicating experience. If you eliminate all risk then the courage once required to play the game, particularly at the highest level, is no longer needed. Courage is what separates the men from the boys so to speak. of course we had to move with the times and we have done that. A player's head has never been better protected than it is now. We also have strict rules about players who are concussed. What more do we need?

I would also like to see a percentage breakdown of how many players have serious concussion issues later in life compared to the total number of men who have played. I would hazard a guess that it is a tiny fraction of the population.

Dermie Brereton is crippled by footy injuries and wear and tear. His life has been greatly affected. Should we ban the knees to a man's ribs and kidneys in a marking contest? What about the defensive punch that occasionally connects with the back of the head? Perhaps when a player is running with the flight of the pill we should make a new rule which says all oncoming traffic must jump out of his way to ensure his safety. Where does it end?

Sam Newman is not an idiot. He is spot on with his observations regarding the fact that no-one has ever been forced to play the game. As I said-If you are not willing to risk injury, don't play.

 

[domus]

well said. I just had a look at the 1966 grand final.

Not that i wanted to take too much of it but after 10 minutes, i saw a lot of shocking kicking, very little tackling and strangely UNdesperate players. If the video didn't say it I wouldnt have thought this was a grand final from the lack of pressure. You do see a few arms being thrown around and probably a few of them hit opponents in the face.......and i saw a few nice uncontested marks......but nothing to reminisce about...

Yep. I think the modern player goes harder than any player from any era. Even the toughest of them all, Leigh Matthews believes today's players are the most courageous he has seen. He said that today, every player is expected to run wit the flight of the ball and not flinch as he approaches oncoming traffic. He said in his day, this was regarded as an exceptional act. If you don't do it now you are shamed by the media and made to feel you have let down your club. The wall to wall coverage also means every incident is caught on film and every moment of hesitation is replayed over and over again. I'll take Lethal leigh's word on the issue of toughness and courage.

I agree with the desperation on display too. I love the old games and watch them all the time but you do shake your head at what appear to be rather lame tackling efforts or attempts to spoil or win the pill in a contest. Today players seem to play as if their life is on the line in most grand finals.

 

[Kappa]

Why not ban the punch in boxing? No-one is forced to play the game. Every collision sport presents the possibility of concussion. We have brought in new rules which protect the player's head when he is attacking the pill. To even contemplate eliminating the bump is ridiculous. The game will become unrecognizable. The courage required to play our game is an important part of what makes watching it such an intoxicating experience. If you eliminate all risk then the courage once required to play the game, particularly at the highest level, is no longer needed. Courage is what separates the men from the boys so to speak. of course we had to move with the times and we have done that. A player's head has never been better protected than it is now. We also have strict rules about players who are concussed. What more do we need?

I would also like to see a percentage breakdown of how many players have serious concussion issues later in life compared to the total number of men who have played. I would hazard a guess that it is a tiny fraction of the population.

Dermie Brereton is crippled by footy injuries and wear and tear. His life has been greatly affected. Should we ban the knees to a man's ribs and kidneys in a marking contest? What about the defensive punch that occasionally connects with the back of the head? Perhaps when a player is running with the flight of the pill we should make a new rule which says all oncoming traffic must jump out of his way to ensure his safety. Where does it end?

Sam Newman is not an idiot. He is spot on with his observations regarding the fact that no-one has ever been forced to play the game. As I said-If you are not willing to risk injury, don't play.

On the radio today they were discussing it, and the experts predict that up to 80% of ex-players have some sort of mental capacity issue as a result of hits and knocks over a football career, from small things such as memory or cognitive issues, to major health issues.

I could of heard wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the number they were talking about, even players who didn't have lots of concussions still had mild issues, anytime the brain is injured it never heals.

 

[noideaatall]

... What more do we need?...

I don't have the answers domus and no disrespect but not going to go much further with this one as I know it will challenge many.

Years ago humans were entertained by people killing each other. Most humans have moved on. I hope/suspect that movement will continue and I doubt that will end at some point, change is the only certainty. Any change that will decrease the physical human toll of sport is ok by me. Courage doesn't separate men from boys, that is simply an old tale. A lot of boys died in ww1 because they were full of courage without the wisdom of age. People are changing in what they expect from life and sport. AFL will move with this or die out. As has been posted there is no lack of courage in the modern game. Why are we scared of the game changing?

 

[noideaatall]

Yeah but you've gotta be a fan of the UFC!

Whats that? Is that like that caged shite? Personally I like watching gypsy boxing on youtube. Deep down I am a roman.

 

[domus]

I don't have the answers domus and no disrespect but not going to go much further with this one as I know it will challenge many.

Years ago humans were entertained by people killing each other. Most humans have moved on. I hope/suspect that movement will continue and I doubt that will end at some point, change is the only certainty. Any change that will decrease the physical human toll of sport is ok by me. Courage doesn't separate men from boys, that is simply an old tale. A lot of boys died in ww1 because they were full of courage without the wisdom of age. People are changing in what they expect from life and sport. AFL will move with this or die out. As has been posted there is no lack of courage in the modern game. Why are we scared of the game changing?

Why are we scared of the game changing? If it is organic, tactical change it is generally embraced over time. When it is arbitrarily enforced change it can be infuriating and turn people away. The out of bounds on the full rule is the best I have seen as it improved the game dramatically. Protecting the player who has his head over the pill was needed and accepted by everyone. if you remove the fear factor from a contest then it does bring every body back to the field. If Leigh Matthews was coming at me from twenty metres away and the pill was in dispute in the Seventies, it would take every ounce of will power and courage to keep my eyes on the ball and not jump sideways or short step. If they remove the bump and it simply becomes quickest player to the ball gets right of way then a huge factor in the game no longer exists.

 

[domus]

On the radio today they were discussing it, and the experts predict that up to 80% of ex-players have some sort of mental capacity issue as a result of hits and knocks over a football career, from small things such as memory or cognitive issues, to major health issues.

I could of heard wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the number they were talking about, even players who didn't have lots of concussions still had mild issues, anytime the brain is injured it never heals.

I find that astonishing to be honest. Not questioning you, just whoever provided the stats. If that is true then suburban footballers must be almost at 100% strike rate as far as brain damage goes. Back in my day-early eighties, it was very willing and one umpire allowed for a lot of behind the play crap. None of my mates from that era have reported any issues. My son retired due to constant concussion so I am concerned about the issue and support commonesense rule changes. But the total elimination of the bump is ridiculous .

 

[Kappa]

I find that astonishing to be honest. Not questioning you, just whoever provided the stats. If that is true then suburban footballers must be almost at 100% strike rate as far as brain damage goes. Back in my day-early eighties, it was very willing and one umpire allowed for a lot of behind the play crap. None of my mates from that era have reported any issues. My son retired due to constant concussion so I am concerned about the issue and support commonesense rule changes. But the total elimination of the bump is ridiculous .

A lot of people have symptoms without even realising it, it may be a diminished cognitive ability, or memory problems that they put down to old age. How many suburban footballers play Football for 12 years? And if they did, then yea a lot would have issues.

 

[bunter]

Professional footballers now definitely as a whole are superior athletes, very skilled and aggressive.
The behind play enforcer who gained a reputation because he changed games by means beyond the rules is gone, was good in the day but a bit embarrassing to look back on with today’s standards in mind. Mind you I still love reminiscing about those old school battles every Saturday.
Blokes like Ian Stewart, Bobby Skilton, John Greening, Robbie Flower, Keith Greig etc... would today still be top draft picks. Class is timeless and it takes massive courage to play Australian Rules when you put your head over the ball, no matter what era we are discussing. Today’s players are equally as tough as their forebears, just maybe not as dirty (Toby Greene exempt).
The game is good to watch but the congestion is a bit of an issue for mine.

 

[magpies42]

Why not ban the punch in boxing? No-one is forced to play the game. Every collision sport presents the possibility of concussion. We have brought in new rules which protect the player's head when he is attacking the pill. To even contemplate eliminating the bump is ridiculous. The game will become unrecognizable. The courage required to play our game is an important part of what makes watching it such an intoxicating experience. If you eliminate all risk then the courage once required to play the game, particularly at the highest level, is no longer needed. Courage is what separates the men from the boys so to speak. of course we had to move with the times and we have done that. A player's head has never been better protected than it is now. We also have strict rules about players who are concussed. What more do we need?

I would also like to see a percentage breakdown of how many players have serious concussion issues later in life compared to the total number of men who have played. I would hazard a guess that it is a tiny fraction of the population.

Dermie Brereton is crippled by footy injuries and wear and tear. His life has been greatly affected. Should we ban the knees to a man's ribs and kidneys in a marking contest? What about the defensive punch that occasionally connects with the back of the head? Perhaps when a player is running with the flight of the pill we should make a new rule which says all oncoming traffic must jump out of his way to ensure his safety. Where does it end?

Sam Newman is not an idiot. He is spot on with his observations regarding the fact that no-one has ever been forced to play the game. As I said-If you are not willing to risk injury, don't play.

I’m crippled with injury, I played basketball...it’s a risk you take, if you don’t want to get hurt sit at home play Xbox and have a heart attack.

 

[Markfs]

I always think of Dermott giggling when he reminisces about guys getting hit but it's always about players getting punched .... often when they had no idea that it was coming. i've never found any of it entertaining. I've heard too many guys in too many bars talk about how tough they were in the past. And yet every single time I watch an old match I feel the frustration of the lack of urgency amongst the players. I just watched the state of origin thing and the pressure of first three quarters reminds me of one of those old games ....although todays players are a lot more skilfull. It's not rocket science, they are at it most of the working week.

 

[Black_White]

Football is a workplace. And as such will be subject to the same laws as all workplaces.
Do you want your workplace to permanently damage you?
Do you want to kiss your loved ones goodbye knowing you are going to work to be damaged?
This is the conundrum for AFL and all contact sports.
In Victoria the employer is held responsible for the most serious workplace injuries. In fact we have just had Workplace Manslaughter laws enacted in Victoria. So you can understand the imperative to protect the players.

 

[Kappa]

Football is a workplace. And as such will be subject to the same laws as all workplaces.
Do you want your workplace to permanently damage you?
Do you want to kiss your loved ones goodbye knowing you are going to work to be damaged?
This is the conundrum for AFL and all contact sports.
In Victoria the employer is held responsible for the most serious workplace injuries. In fact we have just had Workplace Manslaughter laws enacted in Victoria. So you can understand the imperative to protect the players.

Its critical for the games future too, young kids are going to turn away from the game if they see players constantly getting concussed, it used to be a tough thing, now people just worry about brain damage.