The Iraqi Spokesman Attempting A Message ?

[GhostofJimJess]

Just as I'm working up some serious sympathy for the Iraqi people, a couple of their spokesmen come along and blow it all by opening their mouths.

Did anyone else happend to catch the press conference given by the two Iraqi frontmen on CNN around 9pm tonight? You know, where one of them carried on about "Villains" and "Al Capone" for about half an hour or so, and the other guy wielded a machine gun in front of the press.

There's one thing that should have been pointed out to these guys beforehand - If you want to have any credibility when talking to intelligent people, you need to concede on a few points that these intelligent people already know to be true.

Denying the obvious just makes you look very silly. Maybe they have shot down 2 helicopters inside Iraq. No confirmation by the US yet, but maybe so. But to deny that the Coalition have gained a foothold inside Iraq, or have taken any surrenderees prisoner, or have hit any military targets with their missiles, is pure delusion.


But then I had another thought as I attempted to analyze the words of this spokesman (whose name, unfortunately, I missed). In his diatribe, he mentioned the words "we would sacrifice our families for Saddam Hussein".

Those words were powerful for me. As a parent, and husband, and son ... there is NO leader that I would sacrifice my family for.

At the very most, I would sacrifice myself for a cause, but never my family. I'm sure others with kids, or parents, here would understand my meaning.

So then I had another thought ... was this guy attempting to send some kind of coded message to us ... Something along the lines of "They have my family, and they will be murdered if I don't carry on with this verbal muck"

How else could the guy get his message across !?

 

[Ripper]

You could be right on the money.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

The bloke was the Information Minister. He's been on again tonight spouting the same stuff ....

Iraqi Information Minister ... kind of like the Orwellian "Department Of Truth" isn't it.

 

[Dr.Grouse]

You think the Iraqis are bad ...

What about Tommy Frankenstein's big speech:

... Sometimes our ground forces support our naval forces ... And sometimes our naval forces support our air forces ... and sometimes our ground forces support our air forces ... and sometimes our air forces support our ground forces ....

And the fat cretin went on like this for several minutes ... flanked by a row of military types trying to look important.

... and the stupid thing was, there were all these journos busily taking notes ...

At least the Iraqi propaganda merchants have got a bit of character.

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
... Iraqi Information Minister ... kind of like the Orwellian "Department Of Truth" isn't it ....

It amazes me that you can bring up Orwell ... and yet you can't see the Orwellian connotations in any of the crap that the Yanks are feeding us.

You've taken doublethink to a new plane.

 

[redback]

Originally posted by Dr.Grouse
It amazes me that you can bring up Orwell ... and yet you can't see the Orwellian connotations in any of the crap that the Yanks are feeding us.

You've taken doublethink to a new plane.

Agree the US are the greedy pigs, thay think they are the only ones smart enough to run the world.

 

[Katthawk]

Originally posted by Dr.Grouse
It amazes me that you can bring up Orwell ... and yet you can't see the Orwellian connotations in any of the crap that the Yanks are feeding us.

You've taken doublethink to a new plane.

And you are determined never to believe anything anyone says unless they agree with you eh!

 

[Diego]

Originally posted by Katthawk
And you are determined never to believe anything anyone says unless they agree with you eh!

The true sign of a Socialist.


Doc your views bore me b/c they are not rational and have such an element of anti American sentiment.

 

[CharlieG]

Ah... gotta love these Dr Grouse types...

If a right-wing poster called someone against the war a 'fat cretin', you'd jump all over them. We'd go blind from the viscous diatribes delivered about discrimination, respect, idiocy yada yada yada...

But because you're saying it about an American, of course it's perfectly fine. Nothing is too offensive to be said about a Yank.

Doublethink? I've never read George Orwell but how about double standards?

 

[iceman]

im taking anything both sides say with a grain of salt, one minute the US are saying theyve taken control of Umm Qasr, the next, the Iraqis say theyre still resisting there

the truth is hard to find

 

[Weaver]

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess


But then I had another thought as I attempted to analyze the words of this spokesman (whose name, unfortunately, I missed). In his diatribe, he mentioned the words "we would sacrifice our families for Saddam Hussein".

Those words were powerful for me. As a parent, and husband, and son ... there is NO leader that I would sacrifice my family for.

I think one has to be careful and not assume that everyone is of the same culture.

I have been told by Arabic friends of mine that Arabic leaders are expected to be entertaining and dynamic when they speak, not conversational and subdued like our leaders.

There is a long tradition or oratory and speach making which is nurtured in the mosques and reached its height in Nasser's 4 hour calls for Pan-Arabism and nationalism.

It is perhaps best to think of many of these speaches as equivelent to those delivered by football coaches.

When a footy coach calls for his players to "kill em", "drive em into the dirt", "make them cry for their mums", "wipe them from the field and leave them bleeding" ... everyone understands that it is not to be taken literaly. Well rarely

Similarly "spill the blood of the infidel" and "fight to the last man" really sound good, but not too much should be read into the words.

 

[bulldogs1]

Here we go again. The standard line thrown up the right-wing types.

Give it a rest, boys.

Originally posted by Frosties_Flank
The true sign of a Socialist. ....... anti American sentiment.

 

[Frodo]

My wife calls him "Mr. Potatohead"

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Originally posted by CharlieG
Doublethink? I've never read George Orwell but how about double standards?

I'll give you a brief synopsis of Orwell, Charlie .. at least his work "1984"

- a totalitarian state, constantly at war with its neighbours.
- propaganda is prolific, to the point where people are forced to consciously will themselves to believe for fear of their safety i.e Doublethink
- overseen by "Big Brother", whose presence is everywhere in the form of gigantic posters peering down at the people
- TV set in every home to indoctrinate the proletariat into the state's way of thinking
- everybody simulates happiness with their leader, for fear of being dragged off to the Ministry of Love, never to be heard from again.
- includes Ministry of Plenty, which instigates shortages and rationing, whilst seemingly constantly spending on war
- a shrinking society, stifling any creativity, where even the vocab is diminishing as it may encourage imaginative thought. i.e. Newspeak

It was thought to originally be an allegorical tale by George Orwell paralleling such totalitarian states as Hitlers Nazi Germany, or more specifically Stalin's Russia, but there are certainly other far more contemporary parallels.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Re: Re: The Iraqi Spokesman Attempting A Message ?

Originally posted by Weaver
I think one has to be careful and not assume that everyone is of the same culture.

Certainly have never been accused of that assumption, Weaver ... though I missed the class at school where they told us that attachment to one's family was a "cultural" thing ...

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
I'll give you a brief synopsis of Orwell, Charlie .. at least his work "1984"

- a totalitarian state, constantly at war with its neighbours.

America fits that PERFECTLY. If you actually believe that the Republicans and Democrats are different parties, you are an ignorant ****.

- propaganda is prolific Is it ever !, to the point where people are forced to consciously will themselves to believe for fear of their safety i.e Doublethink This applies in America and Australia too. There are plenty of rednecks around willing to sink the boot into a protester or two ... There is plenty of peer pressure to conform in our society. It's really just a matter of degree. And DOUBLETHINK is ubiquitous. All the hysteria about the Iraqis' treatment of POWs is a classic example.



- overseen by "Big Brother", whose presence is everywhere in the form of gigantic posters peering down at the people
- TV set in every home to indoctrinate the proletariat into the state's way of thinking In the western world we dress Big Brother up in a clown suit and use him to sell hamburgers. And our "free" capitalist TV stations indoctrinate us in the forced religion of consumerism.
- everybody simulates happiness with their leader, for fear of being dragged off to the Ministry of Love, never to be heard from again. In the west we become very good at hiding our true feelings and keeping up appearances, for fear of being ostracised and treated like a social leper. We demonise the unemployed and other non-conformists. The repression is more psychological than physical ... but it's repression just the same.
- includes Ministry of Plenty, which instigates shortages and rationing, whilst seemingly constantly spending on war Wait until we get the bill for this present extravaganza .... and look at all the cuts to welfare, health and education that will surely follow.
- a shrinking society, stifling any creativity, where even the vocab is diminishing as it may encourage imaginative thought. i.e. Newspeak Just like the dumbing-down of youth culture in the western world these day ... like ... er ... whatever ... y'know ... like ...

It was thought to originally be an allegorical tale by George Orwell paralleling such totalitarian states as Hitlers Nazi Germany, or more specifically Stalin's Russia, but there are certainly other far more contemporary parallels.

There sure are, Jimmy, old Ghost ... There sure are.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Originally posted by Dr.Grouse
There sure are, Jimmy, old Ghost ... There sure are.

Couldn't agree more, Doc

...... except if you were right.