The Lions' New Logo

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

wow. all interesting s**t.

 

[Lace Out]

Fitzroy $1.33 Brisbane Lions $3.00

 

[GingerGreatness]

Fitzroy $1.33 Brisbane Lions $3.00

I lol'd. Gold!

 

[Old Den]

The Brisbane Lions administration believe they have their smoking gun...

The emblem on the top-left could destroy Fitzroy's case entirely.

If Fitzroy's challenge is unsuccessful, there would appear to be some doubt that the Fitzroy Football Club can afford to cover Brisbane's legal costs.

They may have no option but to withdraw their claim before such evidence even gets debated.

Looks like some of the old Fitzroy people didn't mind having a Lion with a big head and an arse that would fit into a pickle bottle - and using Collingwood's colours.

 

[western royboy]

If that is the basis of the Brisbane defence then Bowers and Co are bigger fools than I had given them credit for. Surely they must realis that there are and were any number of emblems / characters around for each club. I began barrcking for Fitzroy in 1978. Lo loved their colours, jumper and the Lion logo. When the wheels fell off in 1996, I was living in Sydney, I attended the last game in Melbourne and the funeral at Subi. In 1997 I admit to being agnostic, however as I may have stated before, I came on board because the colours and more imortantly the LION were still present and that was enough to convince me that Fitzroy still existed in some small way.

I cannot believe the crap that this administration has gone on with or the manner in which it has behave both pre and post the logo / jumper issue.

I am 100% behind the team, however like a lot of people here I am way beyond concerned with the current management bot CEO and Chairman. His speach at the B&F lacked understanding and smacked of Noel Gordon's infamous gloat which was the reason I remained agnostic in the first place.

If an opportunity comes to give Kelly & Bowers the heave, count me in!

 

[BuntonRules]

The Brisbane Lions administration believe they have their smoking gun...

The emblem on the top-left could destroy Fitzroy's case entirely.

The emblem on the top left is an improvement on the Paddlepop!

 

[guzroo]

The emblems presented in the article appear to be quite weak evidence and as Last of the Roys has already stated, prove nothing more than Fitzroy used different lions on their merchandise as all clubs, including Brisbane have done.

The Fitzroy lion logo referred to in the merger agreements, is depicted in a number of AFL and Brisbane Lions trademarks lodged and registered between 1984 and 2002, by Fitzroy, the VFL-AFL and the Brisbane Lions. The lion in those trademarks has been variously described as "Lion, Paw on Football" and "Lion standing, Paw on Ball". I haven't seen the trademarks themselves, but I've been told that the trademarks also show a picture of "the Fitzroy Lion."

In any case, there's no doubt that THE Fitzroy Lion Logo is at the very least a "Lion, Paw on Football". Any other rendition of a Lion presented, even if used in official club and league merchandise, would therefore appear to be irrelevant.



I've been told what the legal costs will be, if Fitzroy lose. While I'm not at liberty to disclose that figure, I can assure you that, if accurate (and I have no reason to believe that it isn't) Fitzroy can cover the legal costs.



I'm sure the Brisbane Lions are hoping for that. Their case doesn't appear that strong.

As much as I dislike bowers I think their argument has merit and will probably win. If Fitzroy has had a number of different logos how do you determine without any reasonable doubt which is to be used in perpetuity especially if a number of different ones were also trademarked.

 

[POBT]

I also think the club administration's argument has merit. It seems to be leaning towards an uncertainty argument - that the deed lacks sufficient certainty on this issue.

However, I would go back to the term "The Fitzroy Lion". If the intention was that the logo could be any lion, the term used would be "a lion". If the intention was that the logo would be one of the lions used by Fitzroy, the term used would be "a Fitzroy lion". The fact that the term is "The Fitzroy Lion" gives an indication that the intent of the parties was to identify a particular design and that other designs were therefore ruled out. It then stands to reason that whatever logo design was used by Fitzroy at the time of the merger would be taken to be "The Fitzroy Lion".

Unfortunately, the club doesn't need to prove that the new logo is "The Fitzroy Lion". All they have to prove is that the term lacks sufficient certainty and so that clause is void as a consequence of that uncertainty. On the other hand, Fitzroy have to argue that the term "the Fitzroy Lion" is sufficiently certain and that there is no plausible alternative interpretation.

This isn't a clear cut case, IMO. I think the Fitzroy argument may be slightly stronger but the Lions will have more resources (including from the AFL, probably) to throw at their case.

 

[Old Den]

If that is the basis of the Brisbane defence then Bowers and Co are bigger fools than I had given them credit for. Surely they must realis that there are and were any number of emblems / characters around for each club. I began barrcking for Fitzroy in 1978. Lo loved their colours, jumper and the Lion logo. When the wheels fell off in 1996, I was living in Sydney, I attended the last game in Melbourne and the funeral at Subi. In 1997 I admit to being agnostic, however as I may have stated before, I came on board because the colours and more imortantly the LION were still present and that was enough to convince me that Fitzroy still existed in some small way.

I cannot believe the crap that this administration has gone on with or the manner in which it has behave both pre and post the logo / jumper issue.

I am 100% behind the team, however like a lot of people here I am way beyond concerned with the current management bot CEO and Chairman. His speach at the B&F lacked understanding and smacked of Noel Gordon's infamous gloat which was the reason I remained agnostic in the first place.

If an opportunity comes to give Kelly & Bowers the heave, count me in!

I am content to leave it to the Court to decide the merit of the Club's position IF it does proceed as far as a Court hearing concerning the logo and will be remaining 100% behind the team regardless of the outcome.

After the merger having the Lion emblazoned on the jumper to replace the Fitzroy emblem in a design that still shouts Fitzroy,produced a result that close to all Brisbane Lions' supporters have become attached and I think it would have been wiser for the Club to have simply added the new logo in much the same manner as it appears on other merchandise.

There is no doubt that negative feedback regarding the white clash strip resulted in its demise and also positive vibes re the near Fitzroy away strip has resulted in its extended use.

 

[Football Pope]

The trouble with the Brisbane arguement .... Not one of the various Fitzroy lions logos they are producing resemble their own padle pop lion... not sure on the relevance of them suggesting it...but nonetheless after 12 years why are they suddenly unsure which lion it is that is to be used in perpetuity??

The merger agreement or the deed of company arrangement would detail [FONT=&quot][/FONT]what that lion was at the time of the merger agreement being signed ..The killer punch for Brisbane is Fitzroy was trading as a company under administration..The administrator would have ensured all sellable items which would have included the lion logo were registered trade marks of the company, up to date and in order,then they would have been photographed and catalogued..in case of a receiver being appointed.....



.

 

[Roylion]

If Fitzroy has had a number of different logos how do you determine without any reasonable doubt which is to be used in perpetuity especially if a number of different ones were also trademarked.

Only one Fitzroy lion was trademarked. That was the one that the Brisbane Lions used from 1997-2009. It was the one the Fitzroy Lions used from 1965 and the one that appeared on the breast of official Fitzroy jumpers from 1968-1982. In my view there appears to be little doubt, what "the Fitzroy lion logo" actually refers to.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Will members of the public be able to view the proceedings?

If so... any of our Vic crew wish to volunteer as a court reporter?

We also need those iconic courtroom sketches... preferably ones that make Michael Bowers look like Darth Vader without his mask.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Only one Fitzroy lion was trademarked. That was the one that the Brisbane Lions used from 1997-2009. It was the one the Fitzroy Lions used from 1965 and the one that appeared on the breast of official Fitzroy jumpers from 1968-1982. In my view there appears to be little doubt, what "the Fitzroy lion logo" actually refers to.

This

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Will members of the public be able to view the proceedings?

If so... any of our Vic crew wish to volunteer as a court reporter?

We also need those iconic courtroom sketches... preferably ones that make Michael Bowers look like Darth Vader without his mask.

This is the Bowers our emails & calls have been going to.

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5blbv4WFriM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5blbv4WFriM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[MacMum]

Only one Fitzroy lion was trademarked. That was the one that the Brisbane Lions used from 1997-2009. It was the one the Fitzroy Lions used from 1965 and the one that appeared on the breast of official Fitzroy jumpers from 1968-1982. In my view there appears to be little doubt, what "the Fitzroy lion logo" actually refers to.

Well, thats it then!.....Fitzroy 1........Bowers + Co 0


RoyLion, it is always a pleasure to read your factual posts....no BS, just down to the nitty gritty of the matter..

Your knowledge of all things Fitzroy, before and after merger often astounds me......cheers + much respect to you

 

[LuckyLuke]

Will members of the public be able to view the proceedings?

If so... any of our Vic crew wish to volunteer as a court reporter?

We also need those iconic courtroom sketches... preferably ones that make Michael Bowers look like Darth Vader without his mask.

Happy to volunteer if I know the date and time in advance. I'll get in touch with the FFC to find out when/where this might take place. I should be able ot spare a few hours in my day to take some notes on proceedings if it gets that far.

I'm not a very good artist, but i should be able to do some stick figures for you.

 

[BuntonRules]

Well, thats it then!.....Fitzroy 1........Bowers + Co 0


RoyLion, it is always a pleasure to read your factual posts....no BS, just down to the nitty gritty of the matter..

Your knowledge of all things Fitzroy, before and after merger often astounds me......cheers + much respect to you

I fully support MacMum's sentiments. Thanx for the education on our history, RoyLion.

This is from today's Courier Mail-

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26696639-10389,00.html

 

[Hollow Knight]

I fully support MacMum's sentiments. Thanx for the education on our history, RoyLion.

This is from today's Courier Mail-

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26696639-10389,00.html

We've been discussing these revelations for a couple of pages now Bunton.

Thoughts on the implications of it are mixed.

 

[lizard4mi]

It must be asked:

If the Brisbane Lions Administration post-merger were unsure of precisely which Lion they were obliged (and had agreed) to use in perpetuity what steps, if any, did they take to seek clarification?
AND
How did they come to settle on a representation of a lion identical to the one used by Fitzroy immediately prior to the merger? Just coincidence?

The answers will indicate whether the current administration are willfully ignoring the merger agreement or are simply incompetent.

 

[Football Pope]

It must be asked:

If the Brisbane Lions Administration post-merger were unsure of precisely which Lion they were obliged (and had agreed) to use in perpetuity what steps, if any, did they take to seek clarification?
AND
How did they come to settle on a representation of a lion identical to the one used by Fitzroy immediately prior to the merger? Just coincidence?

The answers will indicate whether the current administration are willfully ignoring the merger agreement or are simply incompetent.

Yes! Unfortunately it's gone past the point of putting their hands up & saying we stuffed up...we got it wrong....sorry.. Our adviser neglected to inform us that was in the merger agreement...let's fix it..... and move on...

 

[Roy Fitzlion]

Happy to volunteer if I know the date and time in advance. I'll get in touch with the FFC to find out when/where this might take place.

A date yet to be confirmed in April, as stated by a Brisbane offical last Friday. They may know the date by now.

 

[guzroo]

Did the AFL need to approve the new lions logo before it could be used?

If Fitzroy then win the case could the Brisbane Lions take the AFL to court for approving an invalid logo and possibly seek some sort of damages or compensation?

 

[Football Pope]

Here's an article fom last December....

An old edition of The Lions Tale.....Dated August 2000, the main article in that magazine told of a "new and modern logo for season 2001".

And there was, but the old Fitzroy lion, the one introduced in 1965 and pictured side-on with paw proudly placed on a football, was incorporated in it.

The club's then-marketing manager Judy Kilby said the "trademark lion", as per "terms of the merger", had to be used "entirely and in perpetuity"

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-without-a-fight/story-e6frf9jf-1225810753002

 

[stitchface]

Did the AFL need to approve the new lions logo before it could be used?

If Fitzroy then win the case could the Brisbane Lions take the AFL to court for approving an invalid logo and possibly seek some sort of damages or compensation?

I asked this at the AGM but Bowers gave me a nothing answer!

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

yeh, the answer was....... "we had the logo approved by the AFL. We assume they did all relevant checks (ie. we didn't do any relevant legality checks..) They approved it, therefore we are righteous"

C***.