No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[Man of Men]

As a disclaimer, I am basing this only on gut feel so I want to hear none of your stats or evidence that prove me wrong. What else is the melt thread for

Why don't our players seem to run. We have brought in 4 players 2 lead up forwards, one pacing winger and a full back who also has a turn of pace. Add to that, we have brought in to the main side Langdon and Weller (I know they were arguably there last year). All these guys are quick players and with the possible exception of Hamling should be best suited by running the ball. We have Crozier, Taberner and Sheridan just outside the main side, again all players who's game style revolves around movement. Why is it that we seem so insistent to slow the ball down after a mark. Last year from half back Crozier was providing some running from behind just to change the play up. He was barely honoured but at least he did it. Walters did it on Sunday night and we all of a sudden looked marginally better. We don't have the players to play a contested marking game and we don't seem to be able to manage an effective contested midfield game from the stoppages, sure we get the numbers but it doesn't seem effective.
Our forwards seem to start all over the ground and then lead to the same spot. They are all pacy or leading players except Griffin, why are they not able or willing to try and break away on a solo lead, why do they insist on getting sucked in to the contest. If we're playing guys like Griffin, Sandi or Taberner in the forward line that's not a bad thing either. They don't take as many marks as maybe they should but if we can see that why can't the rest of our team see that as well. They might not take the mark but very often the ball is there front and centre. As soon as the ball is going to a Taberner or Griffin marking contest I feel like I know exactly where I'd need to be. And you know what. If they do take the mark then that player could receive the handball on the way through instead.
Even our contested mids get caught stationary far too often. Effective Hill, Mundy and Fyfe clearances come from players on the move. Guys like Neale or Blakely may be there for the more in tight contested stuff, but you're so much easier to tackle if you are having to try and accelerate after you've got the ball.

TL;DR We've got pace, why don't we use it!

 

[Allikat]

Poopmobile?!?! Im livid.

I know! It's meant to be shiny & pretty, not gross & poopy

 

[freo84]

As a disclaimer, I am basing this only on gut feel so I want to hear none of your stats or evidence that prove me wrong. What else is the melt thread for

Why don't our players seem to run. We have brought in 4 players 2 lead up forwards, one pacing winger and a full back who also has a turn of pace. Add to that, we have brought in to the main side Langdon and Weller (I know they were arguably there last year). All these guys are quick players and with the possible exception of Hamling should be best suited by running the ball. We have Crozier, Taberner and Sheridan just outside the main side, again all players who's game style revolves around movement. Why is it that we seem so insistent to slow the ball down after a mark. Last year from half back Crozier was providing some running from behind just to change the play up. He was barely honoured but at least he did it. Walters did it on Sunday night and we all of a sudden looked marginally better. We don't have the players to play a contested marking game and we don't seem to be able to manage an effective contested midfield game from the stoppages, sure we get the numbers but it doesn't seem effective.
Our forwards seem to start all over the ground and then lead to the same spot. They are all pacy or leading players except Griffin, why are they not able or willing to try and break away on a solo lead, why do they insist on getting sucked in to the contest. If we're playing guys like Griffin, Sandi or Taberner in the forward line that's not a bad thing either. They don't take as many marks as maybe they should but if we can see that why can't the rest of our team see that as well. They might not take the mark but very often the ball is there front and centre. As soon as the ball is going to a Taberner or Griffin marking contest I feel like I know exactly where I'd need to be. And you know what. If they do take the mark then that player could receive the handball on the way through instead.
Even our contested mids get caught stationary far too often. Effective Hill, Mundy and Fyfe clearances come from players on the move. Guys like Neale or Blakely may be there for the more in tight contested stuff, but you're so much easier to tackle if you are having to try and accelerate after you've got the ball.

TL;DR We've got pace, why don't we use it!

Agree with you there. We have a quick side on paper. We should be beating teams on the spread and using our pace on the outside. But a few of our ball users take so long to pick an option and end up bombing the ball to a contest.

Why don't our forwards lead out from the forward 50 and why does Walters insist on trying to mark with the big boys instead of crumbing the ball when it gets brought to ground.

The side looked so disorganised and you could tell that they didn't know where to be or who to kick the ball to. The amount of times two Dockers went for a mark and spoiled each other or just plain spoiled when Fyfe is about to mark (looking at you Griff) was driving me crazy.

We looked much better in the 4th qtr when we tried to move the ball quickly by foot and executed the shallow entries inside 50.




Not melty enough??





On SM-G930F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[salim malik]

As a disclaimer, I am basing this only on gut feel so I want to hear none of your stats or evidence that prove me wrong. What else is the melt thread for

Why don't our players seem to run. We have brought in 4 players 2 lead up forwards, one pacing winger and a full back who also has a turn of pace. Add to that, we have brought in to the main side Langdon and Weller (I know they were arguably there last year). All these guys are quick players and with the possible exception of Hamling should be best suited by running the ball. We have Crozier, Taberner and Sheridan just outside the main side, again all players who's game style revolves around movement. Why is it that we seem so insistent to slow the ball down after a mark. Last year from half back Crozier was providing some running from behind just to change the play up. He was barely honoured but at least he did it. Walters did it on Sunday night and we all of a sudden looked marginally better. We don't have the players to play a contested marking game and we don't seem to be able to manage an effective contested midfield game from the stoppages, sure we get the numbers but it doesn't seem effective.
Our forwards seem to start all over the ground and then lead to the same spot. They are all pacy or leading players except Griffin, why are they not able or willing to try and break away on a solo lead, why do they insist on getting sucked in to the contest. If we're playing guys like Griffin, Sandi or Taberner in the forward line that's not a bad thing either. They don't take as many marks as maybe they should but if we can see that why can't the rest of our team see that as well. They might not take the mark but very often the ball is there front and centre. As soon as the ball is going to a Taberner or Griffin marking contest I feel like I know exactly where I'd need to be. And you know what. If they do take the mark then that player could receive the handball on the way through instead.
Even our contested mids get caught stationary far too often. Effective Hill, Mundy and Fyfe clearances come from players on the move. Guys like Neale or Blakely may be there for the more in tight contested stuff, but you're so much easier to tackle if you are having to try and accelerate after you've got the ball.

TL;DR We've got pace, why don't we use it!

The thing is training sims involve quick ball movement and a play on style . Why it doesn't translate to game day is hard to work out. Pressure, not following the game plan, lack of confidence in team mates? The players dont seem to trust team mates in a one on one situation down the ground and stop to find some one free that then turns into performing the perfect pass that 9 times out of ten doesn't come off. I think the boys need to develop trust in their team mate that the team mate will win the ball. Hopefully a few wins and the gelling of the new boys will create that trust .

 

[DudleyDocker]

The thing is training sims involve quick ball movement and a play on style . Why it doesn't translate to game day is hard to work out. Pressure, not following the game plan, lack of confidence in team mates? The players dont seem to trust team mates in a one on one situation down the ground and stop to find some one free that then turns into performing the perfect pass that 9 times out of ten doesn't come off. I think the boys need to develop trust in their team mate that the team mate will win the ball. Hopefully a few wins and the gelling of the new boys will create that trust .

100% - they certainly don't play the style they train, hopefully that style becomes ingrained with time.

 

[meima]

100% - they certainly don't play the style they train, hopefully that style becomes ingrained with time.

Wait for Next year when jonno and Dawson gone.

 

[Admiral Byng]

As a disclaimer, I am basing this only on gut feel so I want to hear none of your stats or evidence that prove me wrong. What else is the melt thread for

Why don't our players seem to run. We have brought in 4 players 2 lead up forwards, one pacing winger and a full back who also has a turn of pace. Add to that, we have brought in to the main side Langdon and Weller (I know they were arguably there last year). All these guys are quick players and with the possible exception of Hamling should be best suited by running the ball. We have Crozier, Taberner and Sheridan just outside the main side, again all players who's game style revolves around movement. Why is it that we seem so insistent to slow the ball down after a mark. Last year from half back Crozier was providing some running from behind just to change the play up. He was barely honoured but at least he did it. Walters did it on Sunday night and we all of a sudden looked marginally better. We don't have the players to play a contested marking game and we don't seem to be able to manage an effective contested midfield game from the stoppages, sure we get the numbers but it doesn't seem effective.
Our forwards seem to start all over the ground and then lead to the same spot. They are all pacy or leading players except Griffin, why are they not able or willing to try and break away on a solo lead, why do they insist on getting sucked in to the contest. If we're playing guys like Griffin, Sandi or Taberner in the forward line that's not a bad thing either. They don't take as many marks as maybe they should but if we can see that why can't the rest of our team see that as well. They might not take the mark but very often the ball is there front and centre. As soon as the ball is going to a Taberner or Griffin marking contest I feel like I know exactly where I'd need to be. And you know what. If they do take the mark then that player could receive the handball on the way through instead.
Even our contested mids get caught stationary far too often. Effective Hill, Mundy and Fyfe clearances come from players on the move. Guys like Neale or Blakely may be there for the more in tight contested stuff, but you're so much easier to tackle if you are having to try and accelerate after you've got the ball.

TL;DR We've got pace, why don't we use it!

Not TL;DR at all. I agree totally. When we were at our best tow or three years ago we transitioned the ball much more quickly and instinctively. Movement, leads, targets, quick and direct kicks. Now we seem to have lost the basics of quick uncontested ball movement. In addition our contested ball has gone too.

 

[AAACockburn]

We have gone from a no excuses club to a Coach making excuses every presser.
Ross has conceded the fact since half way through 2015 that we need to find more avenues into goals and he is working on it.
He knows where the problem lies and he is implementing strategies to overcome it.
phuc me I don't know what shoe shop Ross goes to but those Cobblers need to phuc right off at least them shitty Nike Jordans changed every year.
I have seen the same s**t dished up every week of the season every year since then with no implications of better footy.

Oh we are in a rebuild but I can't see Suban,Dawson and Pearce in the future of a Freo team.

What excuse are you going to come up with next week Ross?
If only he put as much effort into his coaching as he does his cliches he might get somewhere.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Our footy is yuck.

 

[freo1997]

We have gone from a no excuses club to a Coach making excuses every presser.
Ross has conceded the fact since half way through 2015 that we need to find more avenues into goals and he is working on it.
He knows where the problem lies and he is implementing strategies to overcome it.
phuc me I don't know what shoe shop Ross goes to but those Cobblers need to phuc right off at least them shitty Nike Jordans changed every year.
I have seen the same s**t dished up every week of the season every year since then with no implications of better footy.

Oh we are in a rebuild but I can't see Suban,Dawson and Pearce in the future of a Freo team.

What excuse are you going to come up with next week Ross?
If only he put as much effort into his coaching as he does his cliches he might get somewhere.

Mate you complete me. Couldn't agree more.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

How often in life are we really ready when we encounter adverse challenges for the first time? Being out of your comfort zone and pushing your limits is how you learn and grow.

Personally, I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment that we'll damage thw kids by throwing them in the deep end. As we saw with Cmac/Sonny on the weekend, we have players willing to fly the flag from a physical perspective, and if these kids can't learn and bounce back from getting their arses handed to them by a veteran from a game sense perspective, then they're not cut out for AFL footy, ever.

IMO, as long as they're getting decent game time and not utterly physically irrelevant, then they're going to learn infinitely more from an AFL match than WAFL.

 

[Proud SJW]

Under 24?

The average age of the Bulldogs premiership side was 24.

That's not a rebuild. Not in the common parlance.

Also has a lot to do with the draft. Thing is, when you look at the bulldogs, they've had some fairly advantageous picks in the last few years.
Stringer, MaCrae and Hrovat came from picks 5,6 and 21 in the 2012 draft. Bontempelli at pick 4 in 2013.
We haven't had picks like that since 2009, at least. That's 7 years ago now.

GWS and GC got all the picks other than those in the top 10 in those years.
Poetic licence employed there to some extent, but I'm sure you get my drift. Pick 10 these days is more like pick 20, after you take the concessions and academies into account.
If anyone think s this s**t has ended recently, think again. GWS and GC are going to be trading those early picks for a few years yet.

It's been fairly established in the last few years that with the way the AFL draft works, you have to bottom out for a few years to get anything decent back.
Been a while since we've done that.
It's a simple truth that in the last 5 years or so, the AFL draft has been ****ed. Dilution of talent, unfairness, AFL trying to make the game a national obsession, whatever justification you have for the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant. It is what it is.

"Rebuilding", in the parlance of the last 5 years or so, has been a matter of who can work with what is left (after GWS and GC have looted the draft) better than the next guy.
The "common parlance" ain't what it used to be. It won't be for a few more years yet.

 

[ydraw]

Yeah that's a good point.
I'd argue that a number of those are more ready than Logue, not necessarily physically so but mentally in terms of knowing team structure and reading play.
It's also worthwhile noting where those clubs, brisbane and carlton specifically, stand in terms of rebuild and expectation to perform. They're just about the only clubs everyone can agree are no chance of making finals.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we did just as badly as those clubs last year, and most objective footy fans rate Freo no chance of making finals either.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we did just as badly as those clubs last year, and most objective footy fans rate Freo no chance of making finals either.

If we're still doing as badly in 5 years we will be approaching their levels of shitness

 

[ydraw]

If we're still doing as badly in 5 years we will be approaching their levels of shitness

If we keep refusing to develop any young players, we will be.

 

[ydraw]

Oh we are in a rebuild but I can't see Suban,Dawson and Pearce in the future of a Freo team.

What excuse are you going to come up with next week Ross?
If only he put as much effort into his coaching as he does his cliches he might get somewhere.

It's pretty obvious that despite what they tell the media, the club hierarchy still rates us a chance of playing finals. We wouldn't be playing guys like Johnson, Suban, Dawson or Pearce if we were actually in a rebuild. Sandilands is a different story because we don't have anyone young to replace him yet. But those other 4 players could be swapped for younger players on our list tomorrow, and that is what would happen if we were actually rebuilding.

The fact is that the club is lying about their intentions. We are not rebuilding. Nothing we have done to date suggests that we are. They are in a state of wait and see how the season goes first (with Fyfe and Sandilands back) before they make up their minds on that front.

If we are something like 1-4 after round 5 then that is when you'll see the rebuild actually begin.

 

[danstar]

New cars always seem to end up covered in poop from birds its like those disgusting birds go oh look a shiny new car lets s**t all over that now

 

[blue shark]

It's pretty obvious that despite what they tell the media, the club hierarchy still rates us a chance of playing finals. We wouldn't be playing guys like Johnson, Suban, Dawson or Pearce if we were actually in a rebuild. Sandilands is a different story because we don't have anyone young to replace him yet. But those other 4 players could be swapped for younger players on our list tomorrow, and that is what would happen if we were actually rebuilding.

The fact is that the club is lying about their intentions. We are not rebuilding. Nothing we have done to date suggests that we are. They are in a state of wait and see how the season goes first (with Fyfe and Sandilands back) before they make up their minds on that front.

If we are something like 1-4 after round 5 then that is when you'll see the rebuild actually begin.

We have drafted three players that are physically ready now in Logue, Darcy, Cox and Strnadica could
maybe debut by years end.
Could young Darcy take over the forward/ruck position? At least he is not a liability when the ball hits
the ground, has footy smarts, have him as the lone power forward, others leading away, Walters front
and centre.
Darcy already has more athletic prowess than Sandi, Griff combined.

 

[DudleyDocker]

If we keep refusing to develop any young players, we will be.

Darcy Tucker was recruited last year and is more or less a permanent fixture now.
Weller, Langdon and Blakely the year before - same deal.
Harley Balic (last year also) will get a run in the the next week or two and get the chance to show what he can do.

We have four new recruits who we need to integrate into our team - changing the team radically every week is not going to help that.

You can be as negative as you like - which seems to be your thing - but I'm waiting until mid-season rather than criticizing what might or might not happen.

 

[Crippa]

Using your parameters then: Hawthorn 2005, Western Bulldogs 2012, Freo late 2016.

Hawthorn

Rd 1, 2005: 1723 games experience / average age 23 (years).350 (days) / 3 players aged 29+ / 12 players aged 23< / 12 players with less than 50 games experience.

Rd 22, 2005: 1680 games / 23.154 / 3 29+ / 11 23< / 11 players 50< games.

Rd 1, 2006: 1836 games / 24.74 / 3 29+ / 9 23< / 8 players 50< games.

Rd 22, 2006: 2016 games / 24.121/ 5 29+ / 9 23< / 7 players 50< games.

Rd 1, 2007: 1231 games / 23.51 / 0 29+ (oldest Croad 27.22) / 9 23< / 11 players 50< games.

Western Bulldogs

Rd 1, 2012: 1833 games / 24.256 / 6 29+ / 9 23< / 11 players 50< games.

Rd 23, 2012: 1659 games/ 24.79 / 3 29+ / 8 23< / 12 players <50 games.

Rd 1, 2013: 1774 games / 24.339 / 5 29+ / 10 23< / 13 players 50<games.

Rd 23, 2013: 2256 games / 25.109 / 5 29+ / 9 23< / 8 players 50< games.

Rd 1, 2014: 1932 games / 25.134 / 5 29+ / 9 23< / 10 players 50< games.

Fremantle

Rd 1, 2016: 2608 games / 26.320 / 6 29+ / 4 23< / 3 players 50<games (premiership mode).

Rd 16, 2016: 2389 games / 25.277 / 5 29+ / 7 23< / 7 players 50< games (game after bye, season over, play the kids mode).

Rd 23, 2016: 2620 games / 26.177 / 7 29+ / 6 23< / 6 players 50< games (farewell Pav mode).

Rd 1, 2017: 2449 games / 26.161 / 8 29+ / 5 23< / 7 players 50<games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a team in rebuild mode we are far more conservative than the Hawks and Dogs have been in theor rebuilds than other teams in the same boat.

Your sample size of 5 games under 3 rebuilds does suggest that we've been more conservative in terms of the age and experience profile of the teams we've fielded, compared to the Hawks and the Dogs when they were rebuilding. We won't know for sure, though, until someone crunches the numbers for all our games under the rebuild, then makes the relevant comparisons.

Either way, this is a non-issue. It is a symptom, not the cause of the problem.. The real issue is the age profile of the list. Yes, that will be rectified next year, which is excellent. But the notion that 2 years later we will suddenly transmute into premiership material strikes me as fantasy.

 

[Crippa]

Darcy Tucker was recruited last year and is more or less a permanent fixture now.
Weller, Langdon and Blakely the year before - same deal.
Harley Balic (last year also) will get a run in the the next week or two and get the chance to show what he can do.

We have four new recruits who we need to integrate into our team - changing the team radically every week is not going to help that.

You can be as negative as you like - which seems to be your thing - but I'm waiting until mid-season rather than criticizing what might or might not happen.

Say that again Dudley

 

[Tazmania]

I've been thinking that we need a name change, something that reflects our new game style and lets everyone know what we're about.

I racked my brains trying to think of a team whose playing style reminded me of what I saw on the weekend. With players spoiling each other, failing to hit targets let alone spot them, handballs flying wild...lack of scoring...only one team came to mind.

 

[Mudd]

Darcy Tucker was recruited last year and is more or less a permanent fixture now.
Weller, Langdon and Blakely the year before - same deal.
Harley Balic (last year also) will get a run in the the next week or two and get the chance to show what he can do.

We have four new recruits who we need to integrate into our team - changing the team radically every week is not going to help that.

You can be as negative as you like - which seems to be your thing - but I'm waiting until mid-season rather than criticizing what might or might not happen.

I think Ross has something up his sleeve.

 

[Crippa]

It's pretty obvious that despite what they tell the media, the club hierarchy still rates us a chance of playing finals. We wouldn't be playing guys like Johnson, Suban, Dawson or Pearce if we were actually in a rebuild. .

Is one allowed to express positive appreciation for a melt in a Melt Thread? Yes.

Thank you so much for posting this. I had no idea the club was thinking this. Jeepers, imagine if Tucker, Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Sunshine all got to play finals together. Makes me laugh just to think of Langdon's beaming face.

I don't for one moment believe we'll play finals. But I'm an incurable pessimist with zero cred

 

[Big Animal]

Ross needs to move on from this as his go to on the weekends:

and give something else a try for a change.

You might actually like it if you try it Ross. Go on, give it a go.

[Disclaimer: I don't actually believe Ross reads my BF posts. Arc's and Salim's yes. But not mine]