No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[TheMcManusNose]

I'm not talking about why we're shit now, I'm wondering why can't we debut a host of young blokes into the teeth of a deep rebuild and turnaround the club as quickly as we did in 2008-2010?

We have a better coach now than then. What's stopping us?

I guess if you want to make that comparison you probably have to wait and see where we finish in 2018. Given we spent both 08 and 09 around the basement. Mind you we missed in 07 as well but i'd concede that wasn't really the start of the rebuild.

Relative strength of the competition was probably less too. You had Geelong, St. Kilda and the Pies as the teams to beat. The Hawks were still mired in injury trouble and list turnover. Everyone else was pretty pus apart from maybe the Dogs. Luck too probably. Jagging a genuine gun mid from the rookie draft, picking #3 and #4 in the last two years and having those players contribute all season.

 

[DaveLister]

TFW no Pav

 

[Gussman]

Kick it to Pav still being employed by some of the boys against geelong when they kicked it right out of bounds. Old habits die hard.

 

[Docker82]

I guess if you want to make that comparison you probably have to wait and see where we finish in 2018. Given we spent both 08 and 09 around the basement. Mind you we missed in 07 as well but i'd concede that wasn't really the start of the rebuild.

Relative strength of the competition was probably less too. You had Geelong, St. Kilda and the Pies as the teams to beat. The Hawks were still mired in injury trouble and list turnover. Everyone else was pretty pus apart from maybe the Dogs. Luck too probably. Jagging a genuine gun mid from the rookie draft, picking #3 and #4 in the last two years and having those players contribute all season.

That really was a quick rebuild though and it showed in 2011. As soon as a few injuries struck we went bust.

I think we are in a better spot than we were in 2008 tbh. Palmer, Mayne, Hinkley, Warnock and Ibbotson were just about all we had in terms of newish players. Weller, Blakely, Tucker, Langdon, A.Pearce and Apeness is a much better group.

I'm just not quite we can find the players we need this time around as fast for the following reasons:

1. We had Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin, Johnson and Tarrant (who we lost) back then. KPPs take longer to develop and all those guys were elite talents and in the prime of their career. This time we have the midfield but not the KPPs (we've got a decent start here though).

2. Our mature aged drafting was fantastic. I'm not sure this will ever be repeated. In 2008/2009 we drafted Ballantyne, Broughton, Barlow and Silvagni. We took a short cut or two here and it came off wonderfully. If we can match that I'll be very impressed.

3. At the end of 2009 who did we lose from the squad that was overly important? Same could be said for almost every year afterwards until 2015 with the exception of 2010 where we lost Tarrant and Hasleby. Players like McPhee and Grover were easily replaced. Sandilands obviously the big one (no pun intended) to lose over the next few years. A few others that will go and won't be overly easy to replace IMO.

 

[Freo]

not all of us. Some of us were screaming for Weller & or Blakely & Langon to be blooded to change up what was a team that seemed to be dying in front of our eyes.

Uh huh, we were. Still are.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

That really was a quick rebuild though and it showed in 2011. As soon as a few injuries struck we went bust.

I think we are in a better spot than we were in 2008 tbh. Palmer, Mayne, Hinkley, Warnock and Ibbotson were just about all we had in terms of newish players. Weller, Blakely, Tucker, Langdon, A.Pearce and Apeness is a much better group.

I'm just not quite we can find the players we need this time around as fast for the following reasons:

1. We had Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin, Johnson and Tarrant (who we lost) back then. KPPs take longer to develop and all those guys were elite talents and in the prime of their career. This time we have the midfield but not the KPPs (we've got a decent start here though).

2. Our mature aged drafting was fantastic. I'm not sure this will ever be repeated. In 2008/2009 we drafted Ballantyne, Broughton, Barlow and Silvagni. We took a short cut or two here and it came off wonderfully. If we can match that I'll be very impressed.

3. At the end of 2009 who did we lose from the squad that was overly important? Same could be said for almost every year afterwards until 2015 with the exception of 2010 where we lost Tarrant and Hasleby. Players like McPhee and Grover were easily replaced. Sandilands obviously the big one (no pun intended) to lose over the next few years. A few others that will go and won't be overly easy to replace IMO.

Yeah I broadly agree with you, it almost seems to be a bit inverse in terms of list composition. This time around we have a solid base of young mids, so much so that we almost can't fit them into the team. But it's our KPPs and HBFs where we're really lacking. As you say that's a more difficult problem to solve. I think a lot rests on Logue/Apeness/Collins/Darcy/Strnadica/Cox and whether a solid 3 or 4 of them can become genuine AFL players.

 

[Docker82]

Yeah I broadly agree with you, it almost seems to be a bit inverse in terms of list composition. This time around we have a solid base of young mids, so much so that we almost can't fit them into the team. But it's our KPPs and HBFs where we're really lacking. As you say that's a more difficult problem to solve. I think a lot rests on Logue/Apeness/Collins/Darcy/Strnadica/Cox and whether a solid 3 or 4 of them can become genuine AFL players.

In time for next season though. I very much doubt it. Another KPF will be the hardest thing to get right IMO and should be allocated our highest pick in at least one draft when we're at the wrong end of the ladder.

I'm not as worried about the HBF as most tbh. It's not going to be solved straight away but we have guys developing. We've actually already poured more resources into backline than the Bulldogs have tbh. The seven defenders that played in the GF included a DFA, four rookies, a guy drafted in the PSD and a mid third round pick. Not saying its how we should do it. Just found it interesting.

 

[Lach72]

Dawson into the ruck against Collingwood that one time.

It's funny...I was just thinking that if we were to carry Dawson and didn't want to persist with two lumbering ruckmen...

Dawson is actually pretty smart in and around the contest, is mobile, can jump, can handball...

Personally I'd play Darcy instead of Griffin, but if you wanted to change things up a bit

 

[Nickos66]

It's funny...I was just thinking that if we were to carry Dawson and didn't want to persist with two lumbering ruckmen...

Dawson is actually pretty smart in and around the contest, is mobile, can jump, can handball...

He'd probably end up accidentally elbowing Fyfe or Neale in the chops in a stoppage and sending them down the race for some stitches.

 

[Freomaniac]

That really was a quick rebuild though and it showed in 2011. As soon as a few injuries struck we went bust.

I think we are in a better spot than we were in 2008 tbh. Palmer, Mayne, Hinkley, Warnock and Ibbotson were just about all we had in terms of newish players. Weller, Blakely, Tucker, Langdon, A.Pearce and Apeness is a much better group.

I'm just not quite we can find the players we need this time around as fast for the following reasons:

1. We had Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin, Johnson and Tarrant (who we lost) back then. KPPs take longer to develop and all those guys were elite talents and in the prime of their career. This time we have the midfield but not the KPPs (we've got a decent start here though).

2. Our mature aged drafting was fantastic. I'm not sure this will ever be repeated. In 2008/2009 we drafted Ballantyne, Broughton, Barlow and Silvagni. We took a short cut or two here and it came off wonderfully. If we can match that I'll be very impressed.

3. At the end of 2009 who did we lose from the squad that was overly important? Same could be said for almost every year afterwards until 2015 with the exception of 2010 where we lost Tarrant and Hasleby. Players like McPhee and Grover were easily replaced. Sandilands obviously the big one (no pun intended) to lose over the next few years. A few others that will go and won't be overly easy to replace IMO.

Acutally back in 2008 Freo only had 7 guys aged 23 or under so we have an ageing list. In 2016, we have 8 guys aged 23 or under but that is deceiving.

If you said about all our players aged 24 or under that increases to 15. That's because of what we picked up in the 2011 draft in Sheridan, Crozier, Sutcliffe and neale. Plus the 3 guys that were traded in that were also from the 2011 draft in Hamling, Kersten and Brad Hill.

 

[Freomaniac]

I'm not talking about why we're shit now, I'm wondering why can't we debut a host of young blokes into the teeth of a deep rebuild and turnaround the club as quickly as we did in 2008-2010?

We have a better coach now than then. What's stopping us?

Big Difference was Our main KPPs in Pav, Sandi, McPharlin and Johnson were ate their prime in 2008-10. Our midfield was crap and Ageing in 2008-9. Hence we made finals off the back of young guys of Barlow, Stephen hill, Fyfe, Clancee Pearce, Matt De Boer. Paul Hasleby and Mundy were our main inside mids. Ballantyne kicked like 32 goals from 21 games in 2010 as well.

 

[Docker82]

Acutally back in 2008 Freo only had 7 guys aged 23 or under so we have an ageing list. In 2016, we have 8 guys aged 23 or under but that is deceiving.

If you said about all our players aged 24 or under that increases to 15. That's because of what we picked up in the 2011 draft in Sheridan, Crozier, Sutcliffe and neale. Plus the 3 guys that were traded in that were also from the 2011 draft in Hamling, Kersten and Brad Hill.

I was only listing guys who were in their 1st-3rd year last year. Where are these 8 players from? Just the senior list? Even then I count ten in Apeness, A.Pearce, Grey, Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Hughes, Tucker, Balic and Collins.

Would've thought our 2008 list had a few players around the 23 mark as well. Mundy, Duffield, Murphy, Schammer, Campbell, Foster etc. Big difference there is that the drop off in quality after the first two is laughable. Having said Neale and B.Hill are the only two from that quality in 2016 with Hamling the best player from the rest. Point I'm trying to make though is there's not much point having those players ages if the players aren't much good. In comparison to 2008 though - yes we're well ahead.

 

[Freomaniac]

I was only listing guys who were in their 1st-3rd year last year. Where are these 8 players from? Just the senior list? Even then I count ten in Apeness, A.Pearce, Grey, Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Hughes, Tucker, Balic and Collins.

Would've thought our 2008 list had a few players around the 23 mark as well. Mundy, Duffield, Murphy, Schammer, Campbell, Foster etc. Big difference there is that the drop off in quality after the first two is laughable. Having said Neale and B.Hill are the only two from that quality in 2016 with Hamling the best player from the rest. Point I'm trying to make though is there's not much point having those players ages if the players aren't much good. In comparison to 2008 though - yes we're well ahead.

Actually, the 7 young guys that were aged 22 or under in 2008 was Rhys Palmer, Chris Mayne, Clayton Hinkley, Robbie Warnock, Marcus drum, Garrick Ibbotson, and Brock O Brien.

 

[jimboslice]

Okay, serious question... at what point do we start thinking of maybe finding a new coach? If this season is another bust I think questions will start being asked... could be a good time to bring in someone new with the new training facilities and the new stadium :/
I really don't like our style of footy. Hell even Richmond look more exciting

 

[Docker82]

Actually, the 7 young guys that were aged 22 or under in 2008 was Rhys Palmer, Chris Mayne, Clayton Hinkley, Robbie Warnock, Marcus drum, Garrick Ibbotson, and Brock O Brien.

Those blokes I listed were the 23 year olds. Born 1985 which in 2008 makes them 23 - just like if you were born in 1993 you're 23 in 2016.

 

[Freomaniac]

Those blokes I listed were the 23 year olds. Born 1985 which in 2008 makes them 23 - just like if you were born in 1993 you're 23 in 2016.

yeah fair enough. Just saying prior to 2008, our drafts from 2004-7 were very poor

 

[Gussman]

I have no problem with Ross not playing the younger players. But only if it works. If he insists on playing the oldest team possible but we then only win 4 or 5 games a season I have a problem.

If we are in a rebuild, development of our younger players should be the number 1 goal. Could be possible that Ross thinks that by holding off on their debut he's preparing them better and, rather then having them focus on opponents and matchups each week, they can focus on their development.

I'm not an specialized expert (but I am a bigfooty poster, so maybe a consultant or at least a professor) but if he does this strategy I would believe it would take them longer to rebuild as even though the players are fully developed, they would of had minimal exposure to AFL level football and would then have to adjust their game to meet slightly different standards to that of WAFL. Making what would be a 3 year rebuild into a 4, for example.

However I think we have the talent to be competitive this year. Could be pushing top 8 if:

- Bennell, Apeness and A.Pearce play about half the season (with good form).
- Fyfe gets back to early 2015 form.
- Sandi stays healthy.
- New players integrate quickly into the side.
- Ross fixes this/his shit.
- Croz, Balic, Grey, Logue, Darcy and Ryan develop enough to put pressure on the current under-performers to do better and provide good depth when needed.

Quite a bit to ask though, so I see us somewhere just outside the 8, 9-13 range.

 

[Unique Name]

What shits me.... is that Port despite beating Sydney in Round 1 are still a bit of a shit side, living off their 2014 'almost made a GF' fame. They'll end up around 9th-12th this year because they are one of the most inconsistent sides in the league. They have a long standing habit of losing games they shouldn't, recently Carlton, Freo and Melbourne games spring to mind.

They have 2 stars in Gray and Wingard but a pretty average side after that, Wines has never made the jump to A grade with his disposal issues and Boak has slid these past few years. Dixon isn't fit to shine Shultz's boots and the Hoff is fairly maligned by most Port supporters these days. Aaron Young has shown quite a bit though. Pittard is out injured at the moment and the rest of their back line is average/decent nothing to write home about. We beat these muppets last year with half our squad out.

Yet here we all are, here I am, expecting us to lose this game. Not because it's their home ground, not because they have a better squad than us, but because our gameplan is up shitcreek.

We should comfortable beat them in the midfield, but our forwardline structure is a mess and our strategies for exciting the backline are as poor as our skills coming off the backline.


10 Changes from last year's game against Port.

Out: Z Clarke, S Collins, T Smith, Ballas, Tabs, Mayne, Pav, Sherro, Crozier, Barlow
In: Sandi, Griffin, Fyfe, Johnson, Hamling, Kersten, B Hill, McCarthy, Langdon, Ibbo

 

[Lach72]

Sheridan is an in


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[rgauci]

Sheridan is an in


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We usually travel 23.

 

[wayToGo_]

Ross is a genius - he has lowered expectations so low that we'll unlikely even need this melt thread come Sunday.

 

[Proud SJW]

Kick it to Pav still being employed by some of the boys against geelong when they kicked it right out of bounds. Old habits die hard.

Given Pav was up in the commentary box?
... bit of undervalued humour there.

 

[Banker]

If we get thumped again Lyon will be under scrutiny.

Some players had to be dropped after basic mistakes. Even though Kersten was an absolute crab I think he did deserve another week to redeem himself.

 

[Freofalcon]

If we get thumped again Lyon will be under scrutiny.

Some players had to be dropped after basic mistakes. Even though Kersten was an absolute crab I think he did deserve another week to redeem himself.

I can't see us winning a game all year.

Ross to get an extension until 2045.

Is this the appropriate thread, Mods?

 

[Banker]

I can't see us winning a game all year.

Ross to get an extension until 2045.

Is this the appropriate thread, Mods?

And this is where I have an issue! Our team on paper isn't as bad or shouldn't be.

I wonder if Ross will get another gig if Freo were to sack him.