No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[Banker]

So in other words Ross only wants first round draft picks to make an attacking plan work?

He might proclaim to be a no excuse coach but he sure does like to make it known the 'lack of talent' at his disposal.

 

[Banker]

Okay so I am confused
You mention Gameplan...What exactly is the game plan in your opinion??
I actually think we have tried to be more attacking this year than previous, just lack the skills to pull it off

We need a game plan that has balance as our forward structure is still a mess.

It's true we have been more attacking but a complete change is needed if we want to win a flag. Ross will get us to finals but we will only be a number opposed to genuine chance.

 

[blue shark]

Harley bennell is not the answer, fagan with a bunch of kids with fewer superstar win the match , sort out your players and tweak your game plan to suite the young individual who is available.

I always worry about coaches that come out of the Hawk system, they know how to carve up zones, and even when rebuilding, don't have
the cattle, they are a chance
againt low scoring teams.
We looked good when scoring more earlier in the season, just the leaky goals, defense looked poor.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Okay so I am confused
You mention Gameplan...What exactly is the game plan in your opinion??
I actually think we have tried to be more attacking this year than previous, just lack the skills to pull it off

I agree.

To me, the modern game is all about skills, especially skills under pressure. More important than effort even. It is the key to getting fluent ball movement.

In the last few weeks there have been so many times a Docker has got both hands on the ball without getting a stat (handpass or kick) because they fumble it. Our low possession count compared to the opposition has more to do with not being able to convert a fumble into a possession than players not making an effort to get to the contest.

 

[Lach72]

In an ideal world our front half would look more like this:
Ballantyne Apeness Yarran
Bennell, McCarthy Walters.
That's what was recruited.
It's all turned to shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kingswood71]

At times this year, our game plan has looked awesome!....Attacking football resulting in multiple forward entries and large scoring quarters.
It then has gone to crap.
I dont think seriously that the game plan is to blame....when we get it right, we score and win (Dogs, Melbourne games for example).

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I agree.

To me, the modern game is all about skills, especially skills under pressure. More important than effort even. It is the key to getting fluent ball movement.

In the last few weeks there have been so many times a Docker has got both hands on the ball without getting a stat (handpass or kick) because they fumble it. Our low possession count compared to the opposition has more to do with not being able to convert a fumble into a possession than players not making an effort to get to the contest.

It's also the lack of spread. We're so static when we have the ball with the exception of a few passages of play where we really looked good. It's especially evident on the kick-outs and I think it's both an inability (the mental side a fair bit I think) to hit the targets we need to and also too rigid a system. Croz was in the back half very briefly yesterday and straight away picked a player out a couple of times that I don't think any of our other regular backmen would have. Ditto Ryan, looks to have that ability. Need to get the ball in his hands more.

I think it is one reason why Brad Hill looks so ****ing good for us. He actually ****ing works to create an option.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

At times this year, our game plan has looked awesome!....Attacking football resulting in multiple forward entries and large scoring quarters.
It then has gone to crap.
I dont think seriously that the game plan is to blame....when we get it right, we score and win (Dogs, Melbourne games for example).

A comment that stuck out to me after the Dogs game from Ross was that the players feedback was that the game plan needed to be simplified. And that's the impression I gathered from those games. Get ball, look to move it quickly and directly. I think a rigidity or an overly systematic approach has crept back into the game since then. Time to go back to basics.

 

[ydraw]

It's also the lack of spread. We're so static when we have the ball with the exception of a few passages of play where we really looked good. It's especially evident on the kick-outs and I think it's both an inability (the mental side a fair bit I think) to hit the targets we need to and also too rigid a system. Croz was in the back half very briefly yesterday and straight away picked a player out a couple of times that I don't think any of our other regular backmen would have. Ditto Ryan, looks to have that ability. Need to get the ball in his hands more.

I think it is one reason why Brad Hill looks so ******* good for us. He actually ******* works to create an option.

Yeah Croz got the ball deep in defense at one point and laced out a 60m pass to Fyfe.

 

[Cobbler]

I think we need to, as a bigfooty community, take a collective breath.

It was clearly evident that yesterday's performance wasn't just a one or 2 players performed badly performance.

Ok everyone with me 'breathe in... hold for 3 seconds... breathe out...'

Now on this next turn we'll breathe in and hold for 3 seconds. When we breathe out we'll send out with our breath all the negative thoughts we have about our players.

'Breathe in... hold for 3 seconds... breathe out... and with it send out those negative thoughts. Send out that completely inept performance from team selection, to playing style, to skill errors galore. Send out those fumbles, highlighted by Sheridan dropping that handball by Blakely and those 2 marks by our new forwards.
Speaking of forwards, Kersten - pull your head out of your arse. This bloke swaggers about like he's owning it, but he fell behind his opponent on every contest in the air, EVERY CONTEST.
Speaking of contests, Collins - MATE... you got a call up... good for you... IF I EVER SEE A DEFENDER STAY AT GROUND LEVEL LIKE YOU DID AGAIN, IT WILL BE IN THE AMATUER LEAGUES AT KELMSCOTT. I'm sorry to all the Collins lovers, but he stayed down on multiple times and the times he did attack the contest, he missed the ball... EVERY TIME! I wanted to give him a go, but he was next to useless.
But in terms of useless rankings... SUTCLIFFE. Are you punting on the opposition Sutcliffe? Here's a bet I'll make. YOU"RE GONE MATE.
Griffen... FMD... Ok, I'll give you a few words of encouragement... it's not your fault... it's not your fault... look at me son... it's not your fault. It's not your fault that when you have 5-6 players running along side you, you choose to sink the slipper into the ball and send it 55m to the oppositions chest. Clearly someone had a word, because you then tried to dance around 4 players when the right play was to boot it long... HTB!!!! Mate you have the footy IQ that is equivalent to a brick winning the Dux in a classroom at Harvard. If you were a horse I'd put you down.
Fyfe... yeah you. If you're not fit, take a break otherwise you shouldn't escape mention. Your body language reminds me of when Jonathon Trott walked out to bat in his last tests... I can see the fear. Hunched over and breathing heavily doesn't fool anyone... you hear that Stephen Hill? DOESN"T FOOL ANYONE.
Sheridan... you were a reasonably high draft pick. If you were a company, you'd be ENRON. Just full of hot air and the collapse is inevitable.
Crozier... I want to like you... I want to like how when you take a mark around 50m out you turn you back and go through your routine and have that air of confidence about you... I want to know you'll kick straight, BUT... you're about as reliable a set shot on goal as Mayne was when we're up by 3 goals and about to get a run on. Here's an idea... IF YOU GO THROUGH THE SAME F#$%ING ROUTINE EVERY TIME AND MISS EVERY TIME... IS IT TIME TO CHANGE IT?
Spurr... I'm going to nickname you fish... you must only have eyes on the side of your head. STOP BEING A SAFE SACK AND START LEADING BY EXAMPLE. Sending the ball 15-17m sideways to an open player is about as aggressive as Geoff Marsh was when opening the batting. YOU ARE the reason our defense sucks balls.
No Michael Johnson... that doesn't mean you're good. You like to point... well I'm pointing in a direction and it's right at the exit door. You could probably find your way there, but you're the type that pushes when you're meant to pull or pulls when you're meant to push. SORT IT OUT JOHNO OR F OFF.
Tucker... you're the only one that didn't lay a tackle. NOT EFFING GOOD ENOUGH. Being tackled constantly, doesn't equate to getting involved in the contest mate. you're suppose to be young and agile, but you're about as elusive as a tackling bag.
Did I EFFING mention KERSTEN - He has 3 speeds. Slow, but finds the balls sometimes. Slow, but doesn't find the ball. Slow... makes Taberner on a wet day look like Wayne Carey in his day. YOU WERE ON TABERNER LEVEL yesterday.
McCarthy - Ok I'll choose my words carefully here. Having depressions and illness is a very serious issue. I can understand that and hope you're recovering. BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE EFFING right to pass it on to Freo supporters. Clunk a mark... kick a goal... EFFING shave that pathetic mo and whilst at it top knots should only be permitted to top players. SHAVE THE BLOODY HAIR.
ROSS LYON - You have all pre-season or all week to work out a play from kick ins. Give the ball to Ryan. He can kick it and doesn't look scared to go long. You'll thank me in 3 years when he's a gun and reliable kick. If you EFFING let Johnson kick in again I'll change your nickname from Ross is Boss to Ross is Lost... believe me, social media will pick it up within a week and you'll be under the pump more then Harvey was in his final days.

Slow breathing works!

 

[Nightrain]

We need to hire a witch doctor and get him to ward off the mockers hanging over any player we put in our forward line. Seems whoever we put in there becomes a squib instantly. I reckon Buddy would be 10% the player if he came and played for us.

Not much more than we didn't know already;
- Sutcliffe delist
- Sherridan keep him at Peel
- S.Hill give him a month off. Clearly not right.
- McCarthy maybe a stint at peel would help him find form. Has been Taberner like the past few weeks.
- Griffiin to make way for Darcy. I have been waiting for Griff to turn it on but he proved yesterday he is incapable of even offering a contest. A shell of his peak.

 

[Carnthedockers]

So in other words Ross only wants first round draft picks to make an attacking plan work?

He might proclaim to be a no excuse coach but he sure does like to make it known the 'lack of talent' at his disposal.

I think that's unfair. How's Clarko going now without Lewis and Mitchell? As ross says, you can only improve a players skill set so much at the top level. We should be howling at our recruiters, very low strike rate. They should be in the gun.

 

[fnerd]

I think that's unfair. How's Clarko going now without Lewis and Mitchell? As ross says, you can only improve a players skill set so much at the top level. We should be howling at our recruiters, very low strike rate. They should be in the gun.

So much this...I mean people carry on about clarko and most of it rightly so but look how hawks are travelling now?...and its not just the loss of mitchell and lewis but the slowing down hodge/gibson/burgoyne and a lack of up coming talent in key areas...all very similar to us.
I dont know how anyone can look at our side and say overall we're a talented team ,we have a decent top 6/7 but it falls away dramatically after that.
Like I said in another thread we are paying dearly for piss poor drafting and a flawed recruiting strategy.
Chris teflon Bond must simply be f**ked off asap to get the ball rolling

 

[fnerd]

So in other words Ross only wants first round draft picks to make an attacking plan work?

He might proclaim to be a no excuse coach but he sure does like to make it known the 'lack of talent' at his disposal.

You cant tell me when you look at our team atm and say its a talented side overall??

 

[FreoMonocle]

Like I said in another thread we are paying dearly for piss poor drafting and a flawed recruiting strategy.
Chris teflon Bond must simply be f**ked off asap to get the ball rolling

Both yes - and no. It's not so simple.

As with the Hawks who are currently up shit creek without a boat, we had a stack of successful years - and so the draft picks were poorer. Some players do come up at the worse end of the picks (e.g. Fyfe at #20 instead of #1) but the cream is typically found in the first handful of picks, not pick 11 to 18. (roughly what you get for being in the top 8 at the end of the year).

Then you factor in the years where the expansion teams get the first 12 picks, being in our good years, where we might get pick 11 to 18 for example - our first pick comes in more like #23 to 30.

Our busted draft picks such as Simpson, sure, that is a stuff up (but that kid could have been one hell of a player, in my opinion worth the roll of the dice on the pick we had). Other issues such as Morabito - can't be put on the recruiters and by crikey our list over the years could have done with him.

So yep, they could have recruited better in instances, but with the picks at hand (poor from success) coupled with the expansion years, well we aren't as flush with talent as a consequence due to circumstances beyond the recruiting department.

 

[fnerd]

Both yes - and no. It's not so simple.

As with the Hawks who are currently up shit creek without a boat, we had a stack of successful years - and so the draft picks were poorer. Some players do come up at the worse end of the picks (e.g. Fyfe at #20 instead of #1) but the cream is typically found in the first handful of picks, not pick 11 to 18. (roughly what you get for being in the top 8 at the end of the year).

Then you factor in the years where the expansion teams get the first 12 picks, being in our good years, where we might get pick 11 to 18 for example - our first pick comes in more like #23 to 30.

Our busted draft picks such as Simpson, sure, that is a stuff up (but that kid could have been one hell of a player, in my opinion worth the roll of the dice on the pick we had). Other issues such as Morabito - can't be put on the recruiters and by crikey our list over the years could have done with him.

So yep, they could have recruited better in instances, but with the picks at hand (poor from success) coupled with the expansion years, well we aren't as flush with talent as a consequence due to circumstances beyond the recruiting department.

Oh well aware its not that simple especially in regards to the expansion years , I dont sit here with hindsight thinking why we didnt pick x player over y at every pick....its more the no brainer one' s and type of player (list management comes in here) that we ve chosen
We ve desperately needed kpp's and the best to have come out during this time have a) not only been in our own backyard but b)quite cheap in terms of cost (ie darling at 26 being the highest pick used on any of them)
I get that its not an exact science but at the end of the day its a results based industry and like any other job, recruiting, you can either be good , mediocre or poor.We ve been somewhere in between that latter 2 imho.
Just for a quick reference compare us to adelaide(who I regard as the best in the business), in the same period , with similar picks , noting they ve been restricted in 2 drafts and lost half dozen top quality players the club is miles behind where they need to be, and thats challenging as in the top few clubs

 

[ydraw]

Both yes - and no. It's not so simple.

As with the Hawks who are currently up shit creek without a boat, we had a stack of successful years - and so the draft picks were poorer. Some players do come up at the worse end of the picks (e.g. Fyfe at #20 instead of #1) but the cream is typically found in the first handful of picks, not pick 11 to 18. (roughly what you get for being in the top 8 at the end of the year).

Then you factor in the years where the expansion teams get the first 12 picks, being in our good years, where we might get pick 11 to 18 for example - our first pick comes in more like #23 to 30.

Our busted draft picks such as Simpson, sure, that is a stuff up (but that kid could have been one hell of a player, in my opinion worth the roll of the dice on the pick we had). Other issues such as Morabito - can't be put on the recruiters and by crikey our list over the years could have done with him.

So yep, they could have recruited better in instances, but with the picks at hand (poor from success) coupled with the expansion years, well we aren't as flush with talent as a consequence due to circumstances beyond the recruiting department.

This is just an excuse for poor development of our players.

Geelong have only finished outside the 8 once since 2007 and they haven't had any problems recruiting. Nor have other clubs.

At some point we're going to have to accept that we just haven't done very well at developing the players we did draft rather than blame a perfect storm of bad luck and expansion teams and finishing in the wrong position in the wrong year.

 

[Carnthedockers]

This is just an excuse for poor development of our players.

Geelong have only finished outside the 8 once since 2007 and they haven't had any problems recruiting. Nor have other clubs.

At some point we're going to have to accept that we just haven't done very well at developing the players we did draft rather than blame a perfect storm of bad luck and expansion teams and finishing in the wrong position in the wrong year.

The cats have a lot more players to pick from. They have long been a destination club, and can attract players from all of australia, not just one state like we can. Their success has created a culture that players want to be in. They have also had a better recruiting record.

 

[Square Peg]

Both yes - and no. It's not so simple.

As with the Hawks who are currently up shit creek without a boat, we had a stack of successful years - and so the draft picks were poorer. Some players do come up at the worse end of the picks (e.g. Fyfe at #20 instead of #1) but the cream is typically found in the first handful of picks, not pick 11 to 18. (roughly what you get for being in the top 8 at the end of the year).

Then you factor in the years where the expansion teams get the first 12 picks, being in our good years, where we might get pick 11 to 18 for example - our first pick comes in more like #23 to 30.

Our busted draft picks such as Simpson, sure, that is a stuff up (but that kid could have been one hell of a player, in my opinion worth the roll of the dice on the pick we had). Other issues such as Morabito - can't be put on the recruiters and by crikey our list over the years could have done with him.

So yep, they could have recruited better in instances, but with the picks at hand (poor from success) coupled with the expansion years, well we aren't as flush with talent as a consequence due to circumstances beyond the recruiting department.

This is a fair way off the mark. Hawthorn won multiple flags because they traded away picks to get players they needed to fill holes in their list. They are paying the price now but they have the silverwear to prove the success of the strategy.
Bond sat on his hands for years when the window was open because he said it would bring us 'sustained success' to draft instead of trade. It's worked out so well hasn't it?

 

[Geoff]

Son Son rucking was the final straw for me last night. And to cap it off he got down for holding. How much lower will we sink?

 

[estibador]

Wouldn't be bad to see something that resembles defensive effort from the captain.

I don't think you can fault his defensive efforts this season, he's been one of our most desperate players in pressure acts all season. It's his offensive game that's been well down on his best.

Got absolutely SMASHED by Andrews today.

I don't want to hear any "Oh he's been out for x amount of time" bullshit to excuse him either. I'm sick of hearing it. Players have been out for longer periods of time with more serious physical injuries that actually effect your fitness and have come back golden and proved a point.

How many of those players were young key position players with 20 games to their name?

I feel some people got so caught up in the idea of McCarthy being our forward line saviour that they've lost perspective of where he's actually at in his development at the moment.

 

[scon]

Delist if he can't jag a ton.
Recruiters shit.

 

[malpaso]

Aren't we in a rebuild? Nuff said..

 

[FreoMonocle]

This is just an excuse for poor development of our players.

Geelong have only finished outside the 8 once since 2007 and they haven't had any problems recruiting. Nor have other clubs.

At some point we're going to have to accept that we just haven't done very well at developing the players we did draft rather than blame a perfect storm of bad luck and expansion teams and finishing in the wrong position in the wrong year.

By the same token, Hawthorn and Sydney this year. 14 and 17 on the ladder. Sustained success is good in those successful years, but it comes with a future cost.

 

[FreoMonocle]

This is a fair way off the mark. Hawthorn won multiple flags because they traded away picks to get players they needed to fill holes in their list. They are paying the price now but they have the silverwear to prove the success of the strategy.
Bond sat on his hands for years when the window was open because he said it would bring us 'sustained success' to draft instead of trade. It's worked out so well hasn't it?

We had our hat in the ring for quite a few trades. But a) who wants to go to W.A. - native born sandgropers (Buddy, Taylor) refused to return, let alone anyone without any connections wanting to come over. And b) players have grown up in the nineties and noughties with Freo as the joke of the competition.

Trading has turned a corner with our 4 amigos from last year, hopefully it continues because we can't fill all the holes in our list with drafting.