The Next Tier

[Enviable Tradition]

The key to our chances next year and beyond us really going to be our next tier of players (plus our father sons and NGA)

We have the top end talent. Especially if we add NWM.

Every clubs supporters over rate their next tier but I really feel like we have a good number of young players that whilst they won't all make it can potentially develop and make us better.

This is going to be the make or break group for us. Guys who I think can either improve as AFL players or improve to become AFL players.

Sinn
Jones
Liddy
Jackson
Moraes
Cochrane
Evans
Berry
Whitlock
Lorenz
Barrett
Lai
Walsh
Ramm

It's a decent sized list and there are probably a few others that could surprise, though I think less likely.

How do you rate the potential of this list? Is it good enough for them to develop and for us to have proper depth?

 

[The Hobo]

The best way to look at it is - IF we were to delist them today, how many would get picked up.

I've often said this - who is our Joe Richards, Esava, Lukoscious etc. The players that aren't able to break into their teams 22 consistently, and want to move elsewhere for more opportunities.

When was the last time we lost a player who was looking for more opportunity? This highlights that "the next tier" is not good enough, as they're not getting any suitors.

In summary - given the season is a write off, i'd be getting some games into a number of the unknowns to see what they can do before making a decision.


Sinn - Already AFL level, has become a very good defender this season
Jones - Already AFL level - yes has lots of room to improve, but is absolutely AFL level
Liddy - TBA, could be handy depth in a good squad
Jackson - Showing good signs
Evans - Showing Good signs
Berry - TBA, not sure what we are to make of this
Whitlock - TBA, looking likely
Lorenz - TBA, but not looking likely
Barrett - TBA
Lai - TBA, think he gets a go before seasons end
Walsh - Not looking likely
Ramm - TBA

 

[PJ Power]

Re Lorenz, he has looked every bit as good as Jackson at SANFL level and is two years younger. Let’s not write him off until he has played some non-sub games for the AFL side

 

[El_Scorcho]

I think we have an upcoming key defender cliff we have to deal with, but aside from that I'm very confident we have a list that can contend.

While we need a few of these guys to come on, we do have a stack of our established players yet to enter their prime years, with really only Aliir, Rioli and Wines key players the wrong side of 30. DBJ is 29 but has plenty of years left, then the next group of established players are 27 or younger. We are going to age into a contending list. Teams that win flags tend to have their prime movers in that 25-32 age bracket.

People worry about the key defensive depth, but we cover it in the short to medium term by having Jones and Bergman who can play tall at a very good level. Aliir is very important to us though and we need him to stay fit.

Sinn and Jones I think are already most of the way there. Both are excellent defensively and they'll get more confident with ball in hand once they're out of the Hinkley system.

There are question marks on the forward line because it's purely theoretical at the moment, but I like what we have up there. Remember that we're playing a system that has intentionally ignored the forward line in order to kick Hospital balls to the Charlie Dixon for the last decade. Hinkley doesn't care for forward craft, he doesn't care about making lives easier for his forwards, and I can't see how Carr could be worse. Georgiades has established himself as the gun, and now it's time to see whether Marshall and Lukosius can get into some form and we can develop a system that allows them to be successful.

With Rioli seemingly on the way out or at least not that reliable, it'd be really nice if Berry or Barrett or someone else could turn into that creative goalsneak type that Rioli has been for us at his best. But ultimately a lot of the goals we fail to get are because our system sucks and our team is not properly mentally prepared to play. You will likely see significant advancements in this area simply by Carr resetting standards and getting the players to believe in themselves.

I look at Ryan Harris as an example of someone who was an assistant coach in a system that wasn't working and stepped up and immediately reset expectations and standards and had immediate success. I really hope Carr can be that for us.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

This will be one of the more important aspects of Starting the Carr. Hinkley is such an inept coach that the gameplan has been bad and the roles given to players haven't been defined enough. Carr needs to teach every player what is expected of them in their role and then anything else is a bonus.

Our top end talent is really good depending on how you cut it. Butters, Rozee, Horne-Francis, Bergman, Georgiades, Ratugolea, Rioli, Aliir.

It is the next level that need to start really moving especially those who have been 4 or 5 years on the list. The guys I am looking at Burgoyne, Sinn, Lachie Jones, Visentini and Lukosius. These are guys who have the talent to take their play to the next level. If these guys come good, we really shoot up the ladder.

Then you've got those 2nd year types who haven't played a lot but have potential like Jackson, Logan Evans, Lorenz, Joe Berry, Moraes and Cochrane. These guys have the right to push for spots. If a couple of those made head way, it will really boost the squad.

And then those yet to get a game with some potential. Whitlock, Lai, Barrett.

In the next three years, we might bring in 4 elite potential players in Wanganeen-Milera, Dougie Cochrane, Zemes Pilot and Louis Salopek. That would be quite the hall with a few others popping their heads up.

I'm buoyant on the list and I'm buoyant on Carr.

I think Carr will move us back to where we want the team playing.

 

[The Hobo]

I think we have an upcoming key defender cliff we have to deal with, but aside from that I'm very confident we have a list that can contend.

While we need a few of these guys to come on, we do have a stack of our established players yet to enter their prime years, with really only Aliir, Rioli and Wines key players the wrong side of 30. DBJ is 29 but has plenty of years left, then the next group of established players are 27 or younger. We are going to age into a contending list. Teams that win flags tend to have their prime movers in that 25-32 age bracket.

People worry about the key defensive depth, but we cover it in the short to medium term by having Jones and Bergman who can play tall at a very good level. Aliir is very important to us though and we need him to stay fit.

Sinn and Jones I think are already most of the way there. Both are excellent defensively and they'll get more confident with ball in hand once they're out of the Hinkley system.

There are question marks on the forward line because it's purely theoretical at the moment, but I like what we have up there. Remember that we're playing a system that has intentionally ignored the forward line in order to kick Hospital balls to the Charlie Dixon for the last decade. Hinkley doesn't care for forward craft, he doesn't care about making lives easier for his forwards, and I can't see how Carr could be worse. Georgiades has established himself as the gun, and now it's time to see whether Marshall and Lukosius can get into some form and we can develop a system that allows them to be successful.

With Rioli seemingly on the way out or at least not that reliable, it'd be really nice if Berry or Barrett or someone else could turn into that creative goalsneak type that Rioli has been for us at his best. But ultimately a lot of the goals we fail to get are because our system sucks and our team is not properly mentally prepared to play. You will likely see significant advancements in this area simply by Carr resetting standards and getting the players to believe in themselves.

I look at Ryan Harris as an example of someone who was an assistant coach in a system that wasn't working and stepped up and immediately reset expectations and standards and had immediate success. I really hope Carr can be that for us.

We're already at the key defender cliff. We have 3 talls, that play every week when available. We have 0 backups capable of stepping in at a reasonable level. It's why we keep having to move Bergman back and robbing our midfield.

We have no ruck depth either, as we have 3 who are not AFL quality when compared to other team. I'd rank Soldo or Sweet as bottom 5 rucks in the comp. Visentini is developing well, but what is his ceiling? Probably bottom 8 at absolute best unless he works out how to be a forward as well.

No 2nd ruck (Forward/Ruck) option at all - Finlayson is the only one on the list suited, but is in horrendous form and off field distractions for him means he's not a reliable option.

Midfield is good, and decent depth, but no Wines type backup, and very noticeable when he's not there.

No wing depth at all

No small forward depth - Richards looking decent, and Rioli a huge risk of end of season retirement. Nobody else to step in. When McEntee is likely the next one in, it shows the lack of depth here.

 

[The Hobo]

In the next three years, we might bring in 4 elite potential players in Wanganeen-Milera, Dougie Cochrane, Zemes Pilot and Louis Salopek. That would be quite the hall with a few others popping their heads up.

I'm buoyant on the list and I'm buoyant on Carr.

I think Carr will move us back to where we want the team playing.

All unknowns except NWM. By the time the rest come in and get up to speed, we likely lose Aliir, Wines, Rioli, Burton and possibly even Marshall. There are no obvious replacements for any of these at the club today (possible Ramm for Aliir, but far too early to tell)

And that's assuming everyone else maintains or improves their form, nobody else wants to go home etc etc etc.

 

[PJ Power]

We're already at the key defender cliff. We have 3 talls, that play every week when available. We have 0 backups capable of stepping in at a reasonable level. It's why we keep having to move Bergman back and robbing our midfield.

We have no ruck depth either, as we have 3 who are not AFL quality when compared to other team. I'd rank Soldo or Sweet as bottom 5 rucks in the comp. Visentini is developing well, but what is his ceiling? Probably bottom 8 at absolute best unless he works out how to be a forward as well.

No 2nd ruck (Forward/Ruck) option at all - Finlayson is the only one on the list suited, but is in horrendous form and off field distractions for him means he's not a reliable option.

Midfield is good, and decent depth, but no Wines type backup, and very noticeable when he's not there.

No wing depth at all

No small forward depth - Richards looking decent, and Rioli a huge risk of end of season retirement. Nobody else to step in. When McEntee is likely the next one in, it shows the lack of depth here.

Agree with all of this.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

This is gonna be brutally harsh, but I feel like for us to win a flag quite a few of these guys will need to either be replaced by better prospects (Zemes/Cochrane etc), replaced by ready made players at the right time, or carried. This absolutely does not apply to Whitlock.

I reckon most clubs would have a better "next tier" list than this.

 

[Coobk001]

I think if I look at who is near certain to be in the side in 5 years

FF: ??????, Georgiades, ???????
HF: ??????, ????????, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, ????????
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: ?????, ????????, ??????
R: ???????, JHF, Butters
INT: ???????, ????????, ??????

I can really only come up with this. That's a real worry.

Question Marks: Sinn, Jones, Visentini, Whitlock, Moraes, Berry, Evans, Ramm, Drew, Richards, SPP, Jackson, Marshall, Lukosius, Walsh, Mead, Liddy, Lord, Lorenz, Cochrane

Highly likely the question marks could end up like

FF: ??????, Georgiades, Lukosius
HF: ??????, Whitlock, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, Berry
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: L Jones, Ramm, Sinn
R: Visentini, JHF, Butters
INT: Moraes, Drew, ????????, ??????

That still leaves gaps everywhere. So for mine, we're in real trouble list and structure wise with a lack of picks coming in. We'll need to nail free agency and drafting of mature agers over the next few years IMO to stave off a complete collapse.

The ray of light of Cochrane, Pilot, Salopek, Rodan is good, but really we'll need to find a way to get picks inside of these guys and double up on the talent coming in.

 

[El_Scorcho]

We're already at the key defender cliff. We have 3 talls, that play every week when available. We have 0 backups capable of stepping in at a reasonable level. It's why we keep having to move Bergman back and robbing our midfield.

Key defender is a recruitment priority I agree, but we've got 3 solid to great key defenders who are going to be able to play most weeks, with Bergman and Jones to back up. It's not a disaster.

We have no ruck depth either, as we have 3 who are not AFL quality when compared to other team. I'd rank Soldo or Sweet as bottom 5 rucks in the comp. Visentini is developing well, but what is his ceiling? Probably bottom 8 at absolute best unless he works out how to be a forward as well.

Sweet hasn't even played 50 AFL games. Visentini is 22, one of 3 players 22 or younger who have even played a game at 1st ruck in the AFL this season. They'll both improve with time.

Neither of them are stars in 2025 or 2026, but we're in a far better ruck position than we were with Lycett and nobody.

No 2nd ruck (Forward/Ruck) option at all - Finlayson is the only one on the list suited, but is in horrendous form and off field distractions for him means he's not a reliable option.

I think we'll find a way to make this work. Between Marshall/Lukosius/Whitlock, one of them or a mixture of them are going to have to take on some ruck duties. I don't think Finlayson is a clearly better ruck than an average tall replacement in 2025.

Midfield is good, and decent depth, but no Wines type backup, and very noticeable when he's not there.

No wing depth at all

No small forward depth - Richards looking decent, and Rioli a huge risk of end of season retirement. Nobody else to step in. When McEntee is likely the next one in, it shows the lack of depth here.

I don't think small forward is a problem moving forward, we've just invested fairly heavily. We have Berry/Cochrane/Barrett/McKinley all young and coming through. It's also a relatively easy position to recruit for.

Wing depth is similar. We tend to play our natural outside mids/wingers as halfbacks, and when most people are fit we don't need all of Sinn/Rozee/Bergman/Burgoyne/Farrell/Evans/Jones playing halfback, some can push up higher.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I think if I look at who is near certain to be in the side in 5 years

FF: ??????, Georgiades, ???????
HF: ??????, ????????, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, ????????
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: ?????, ????????, ??????
R: ???????, JHF, Butters
INT: ???????, ????????, ??????

I can really only come up with this. That's a real worry.

Question Marks: Sinn, Jones, Visentini, Whitlock, Moraes, Berry, Evans, Ramm, Drew, Richards, SPP, Jackson, Marshall, Lukosius, Walsh, Mead, Liddy, Lord, Lorenz, Cochrane

Highly likely the question marks could end up like

FF: ??????, Georgiades, Lukosius
HF: ??????, Whitlock, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, Berry
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: L Jones, Ramm, Sinn
R: Visentini, JHF, Butters
INT: Moraes, Drew, ????????, ??????

That still leaves gaps everywhere. So for mine, we're in real trouble list and structure wise with a lack of picks coming in. We'll need to nail free agency and drafting of mature agers over the next few years IMO to stave off a complete collapse.

The ray of light of Cochrane, Pilot, Salopek, Rodan is good, but really we'll need to find a way to get picks inside of these guys and double up on the talent coming in.

That ?????? between Rozee and Farrell has Wanganeen-Milera written all over it

Edit: Just removed a query on why BZT wasn't here because I see you said in 5 years time so perhaps you think he will be too senior.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I think if I look at who is near certain to be in the side in 5 years

FF: ??????, Georgiades, ???????
HF: ??????, ????????, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, ????????
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: ?????, ????????, ??????
R: ???????, JHF, Butters
INT: ???????, ????????, ??????

I can really only come up with this. That's a real worry.

Question Marks: Sinn, Jones, Visentini, Whitlock, Moraes, Berry, Evans, Ramm, Drew, Richards, SPP, Jackson, Marshall, Lukosius, Walsh, Mead, Liddy, Lord, Lorenz, Cochrane

Highly likely the question marks could end up like

FF: ??????, Georgiades, Lukosius
HF: ??????, Whitlock, ?????????
C: Burgoyne, Bergman, Berry
HB: Rozee, ????????????, Farrell
FB: L Jones, Ramm, Sinn
R: Visentini, JHF, Butters
INT: Moraes, Drew, ????????, ??????

That still leaves gaps everywhere. So for mine, we're in real trouble list and structure wise with a lack of picks coming in. We'll need to nail free agency and drafting of mature agers over the next few years IMO to stave off a complete collapse.

The ray of light of Cochrane, Pilot, Salopek, Rodan is good, but really we'll need to find a way to get picks inside of these guys and double up on the talent coming in.

BZT and Ratugolea are both only 26 and will be playing at 31.

This sort of exercise is too speculative to be super useful. 5 years is an eternity in footy.

If you'd done this exercise in 2020, you'd probably only have been very confident and ultimately correct with Wines, DBJ, Butters, Rozee, SPP as best 22 players, with others like Bergman/Farrell/Georgiades/Marshall possibly in your maybe pile.

If you'd done this in 2015 predicting the 2020 season, you'd have assumed that Wingard, Polec, Pittard and Trengove would still be mainstays by that point and they were all gone within a couple of seasons.

We'll recruit plenty of players over the next 5 years, from the draft and from elsewhere. Some players will surprise us with their development, others who seem like certainties will fall away.

 

[Interstater]

From a drafting perspective here is the last 5 years:

2024: 15 Berry, 33 Whitlock, 38 Moraes
2023: 48 Anastasopoulos, 52 Charleson, 57 Lorenz
2022: 36 McCallum, 53 Scully, 59 Marshall
2021: 12 Sinn, 55 Jackson, 56 Visentini, 60 Burgoyne
2020: 16 Jones, 49 Lord

I think it's fair to say Port have not picked up a genuine A-lister via the draft in the last 5 years, Sinn could get there though.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'm a huge believer that Hinkley has been a really bad coach who doesn't get the best out of his players and our recruiting has generally been pretty good.

It won't always be that way. Players will look better under a better coach. Collingwood supporters doing this exercise in 2017 would have been in the doldrums as well.

 

[El_Scorcho]

From a drafting perspective here is the last 5 years:

2024: 15 Berry, 33 Whitlock, 38 Moraes
2023: 48 Anastasopoulos, 52 Charleson, 57 Lorenz
2022: 36 McCallum, 53 Scully, 59 Marshall
2021: 12 Sinn, 55 Jackson, 56 Visentini, 60 Burgoyne
2020: 16 Jones, 49 Lord

I think it's fair to say Port have not picked up a genuine A-lister in the last 5 years, Sinn could get there though.

Too harsh and too negative.

It's way too early to tell for most of these guys, especially Berry Whitlock and Moraes who haven't even had a season.

Sinn and Jones have both established themselves as best 22 players despite injuries in their development. Jones still hasn't been beaten in a defensive 1v1 this season.

We only have 3 first round picks here, with a couple of the others traded for JHF who might end up being the best player in the competition, and 2nds traded for Aliir who is elite, and the likes of Riolo, Ratugolea and BZT who are good quality starters in their positions.

 

[Coobk001]

BZT and Ratugolea are both only 26 and will be playing at 31.

This sort of exercise is too speculative to be super useful. 5 years is an eternity in footy.

If you'd done this exercise in 2020, you'd probably only have been very confident and ultimately correct with Wines, DBJ, Butters, Rozee, SPP as best 22 players, with others like Bergman/Farrell/Georgiades/Marshall possibly in your maybe pile.

If you'd done this in 2015 predicting the 2020 season, you'd have assumed that Wingard, Polec, Pittard and Trengove would still be mainstays by that point and they were all gone within a couple of seasons.

We'll recruit plenty of players over the next 5 years, from the draft and from elsewhere. Some players will surprise us with their development, others who seem like certainties will fall away.

I reckon our core has been pretty consistent over the last period, when it hasn't is when we've been failing. I'm highlighting that ours is looking likely to enter an inconsistent phase and traditionally that has come aligned to some time in the bottom half of the ladder.

I see pain ahead, that's what I see.

 

[Macca19]

Sinn
Jones
Liddy
Jackson
Evans
Berry
Whitlock
Lorenz
Barrett
Lai
Walsh
Ramm

It's a decent sized list and there are probably a few others that could surprise, though I think less likely.

How do you rate the potential of this list? Is it good enough for them to develop and for us to have proper depth?

I'd say Sinn, Jones and Evans will be long term players. Jackson, Berry and Whitlock have potential but too early to tell. The others i'm doubtful will become anything

 

[El_Scorcho]

I reckon our core has been pretty consistent over the last period, when it hasn't is when we've been failing. I'm highlighting that ours is looking likely to enter an inconsistent phase and traditionally that has come aligned to some time in the bottom half of the ladder.

I see pain ahead, that's what I see.

I think we've got a young list which has been inconsistent as young lists are, and we've got a bunch of guys who haven't entered their primes who will do so over the next 5 years. The only players who are still vital who will definitely be gone in 5 are Wines, Aliir and maybe DBJ, although he could still be playing at 34.

We've also been very poorly coached in terms of attitude and application, and i'm hoping some of these guys will really hit their stride under Carr.

 

[The Hobo]

Key defender is a recruitment priority I agree, but we've got 3 solid to great key defenders who are going to be able to play most weeks, with Bergman and Jones to back up. It's not a disaster.

The fact we have no like for like replacements is a huge issue. Even if we moved Bergman or Jones to cover, we end up losing Bergman in midfield which is massive. They're also very undersized - they may be able to do the job here and there, but will get exposed in big games against good forwards.

Sweet hasn't even played 50 AFL games. Visentini is 22, one of 3 players 22 or younger who have even played a game at 1st ruck in the AFL this season. They'll both improve with time.

Neither of them are stars in 2025 or 2026, but we're in a far better ruck position than we were with Lycett and nobody.

They probably will improve, but do you see them ever becoming better than a bottom 5-8 ruck? Will they ever be Max Gawn, Grundy, Jackson, TDK, Witts, Cameron, English, Nankervis levels? I can't see it. Yes, it's a heck of a lot better than Lycett and nobody, but it's still simply not good enough. Rucks are SO important, and we've been smashed by enough of them in big finals to know the importance of having a good ruck. We haven't had a good ruck since Ryder, and even he was on one leg for a lot of the time he was with us.

I think we'll find a way to make this work. Between Marshall/Lukosius/Whitlock, one of them or a mixture of them are going to have to take on some ruck duties. I don't think Finlayson is a clearly better ruck than an average tall replacement in 2025.

Whitlock maybe, but Marshall and Lukoscious cannot ruck at all. Finlayson at his best is a good second ruck. I don't know if he will ever get back to that though.

I don't think small forward is a problem moving forward, we've just invested fairly heavily. We have Berry/Cochrane/Barrett/McKinley all young and coming through. It's also a relatively easy position to recruit for.

Wing depth is similar. We tend to play our natural outside mids/wingers as halfbacks, and when most people are fit we don't need all of Sinn/Rozee/Bergman/Burgoyne/Farrell/Evans/Jones playing halfback, some can push up higher.

I don't think any of these names is going to be a Rioli replacement. We need a smart/tricky small forward that can conjure goals out of nothing. All I haven't seen enough of Barrett, but the others all seem like they're more half forwards rather than your typical small forward that stays in the 50 and crumbs.

 

[agmsy]

Sinn
Jones
Liddy
Jackson
Evans
Berry
Whitlock
Lorenz
Barrett
Lai
Walsh
Ramm

I would add Moraes and Cochrane to this list, not that they change the profile of this tier very much.

From a drafting perspective here is the last 5 years:

2024: 15 Berry, 33 Whitlock, 38 Moraes
2023: 48 Anastasopoulos, 52 Charleson, 57 Lorenz
2022: 36 McCallum, 53 Scully, 59 Marshall
2021: 12 Sinn, 55 Jackson, 56 Visentini, 60 Burgoyne
2020: 16 Jones, 49 Lord

I think it's fair to say Port have not picked up a genuine A-lister via the draft in the last 5 years, Sinn could get there though.

I think JHF is functionally equivalent to a genuine A-lister from the draft. It's not like we'd be angry if we'd traded out what we did for North's draft pick instead of the player one year hence.

If I had to bet, I would say it's as likely as not that at least Burgoyne, Jones, and Sinn play 150+ games, which would bracket them in the top 15% of AFL games played. Maybe that's not exactly the same as "A-lister", but it's not a category overflowing with plodders and spuds, either.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

All unknowns except NWM. By the time the rest come in and get up to speed, we likely lose Aliir, Wines, Rioli, Burton and possibly even Marshall. There are no obvious replacements for any of these at the club today (possible Ramm for Aliir, but far too early to tell)

And that's assuming everyone else maintains or improves their form, nobody else wants to go home etc etc etc.

The only two out of those five I'm worried about is Aliir and Rioli.

We need another key defender for Aliir.
We need a pesky small forward who can kick goals in Rioli.
Both of those can be hard to get.

Wines, Burton and Marshall we should be able to find better replacements.
Wines is not an impactful midfielder.
Burton is useless.
Marshall was waning when he was on the field and has concussion issues.

Cochrane, Pilot and Salopek are unknown but I've seen highlights of Cochrane and he's looking the goods. Pilot has infinite potential and we will see how Sal Jr develops. I put them in because they should really come in and with their natural talent and ability start pushing early.

 

[The Hobo]

I'm a huge believer that Hinkley has been a really bad coach who doesn't get the best out of his players and our recruiting has generally been pretty good.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest this. The evidence actually points the other way - at least in terms of getting the best out of his players.

Note - getting the best out of your players doesn't necessarily translate to a winning game plan - so let's separate those two out for a minute and focus purely on getting the best out of your players.

I also believe if the recruiting was good, but Kenny just didn't get the best out of the players, I think other teams could see this 'talent' and would pick them up to develop them under their 'superior' coach.

The main evidence I have to support my theory for both of the statements is this:

• Players that leave Port have not improved at their new home. Billy Frampton is the one and only exception to this. Every other player has gone on to play at the same/similar level, or worse. Frampton also went to the Crows and failed before he finally succeeded at Collingwood.
  • (Impey may have a small claim, but he left us quite young and had plenty of development to come. I don't think he's developed significantly above expectation regardless)
• Players delisted by Port rarely get picked up by other teams, and the few that do (Narkle, Francis Evans, Bonner) have not gone on to do any better

What is the evidence to suggest Hinkley has not got the best out of his players?
What is the evidence to suggest our recruiting has generally been pretty good?

 

[Peninsula Boy]

You just have to wait and see what Carr is going to do with the team.

I have the same ideas as Scorcho, that the list is pretty good and Hinkley is a poor coach and doesn't get the most out of the team or his individual players. I think a new coach in Carr could give us 3 to 5 goals.

With regards to the Hobo and how he sees it the other way, I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Obviously Carr gets a bit of time but it should be fairly obvious one way or the other early to mid round in 2026.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I would add Moraes and Cochrane to this list, not that they change the profile of this tier very much.

True, added.