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The Non-Essendon Thread V

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No, I think if you go by what you hear out of the coaches he's seen as a fairly vital cog. You need the whole mix to go the whole way, and when you see something like the Adelaide game last year it's good to know that in an emergency, there's another midfield rotation who could step up.

As for Walker, I think he's very valuable if he camps deep in the forwardline, but he can only ever be a foil. Not the main avenue.
 
I guess that makes sense. You definitely need your serviceable players along with your key players to get a good mix. Monfries definitely adds to that.

And who knows, now that he's 3 weeks away with an injury, we might get a reality check as to how useful he is to our list (if we hadn't already seen that in the first quarter against Freo).

I just don't think Walker would be any better with a tall CHF at the helm. I could probably see Garlett and Betts having a little more impact (even though Betts is good at getting his own ball most of the time) - but not Walker. He takes his hangers here and there, and provides a target, but he's a year older than Monfries and doesn't seem like the player that will make any more of an impact than he is already.

With that said, Carlton would be much worse without him when you take into account of their forward line, and they have plenty of other problems to deal with. The whole Carlton list is a scattered mess when you consider the age spread and the future.
 
Dude kicked 50-odd goals last year. That's pretty useful. I don't think he'll get any better, but I don't think you'd turn your nose up at him if he wanted to come to your club.
 

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One of the things I find most baffling about Carlton is the size of their midfielders. Or lack thereof.

Of course we still have some way to go in that area; look no further than Melksham, for example. But I'm referring to players such as Carazzo, Simpson, Murphy and Gibbs. They have all been around far longer than Melksham, Zaka, Howlett and Myers, yet most of them look like marathon runners. Judd is about the only one who is really built.
 
I was just having a look at his stats and I my impression before looking at the stats was so different than the reality. He also hasn't been playing for as long as i thought he had been!

Although i completely agree that he can take a good grab and he does kick straight. Last year was the only year he has kicked more than 30 goals, for some reason i had it in my head that he had been doing that on a regular basis since he started. in 2011 He also had more disposals than any other year. He looks on track to do that but with far less goals
Not sure if that is a result of changes in the game or in his playing role.

So the question is (Unless his role changes) whether a bloke who averages 17 touches and a goal a game is an important cog.
I am not sure, but he is worth his spot in the 22 that's for sure.

Cake: irregardless is not a real word. you are mixing 2 different words up.
 
Dos23 said:
One of the things I find most baffling about Carlton is the size of their midfielders. Or lack thereof.

Of course we still have some way to go in that area; look no further than Melksham, for example. But I'm referring to players such as Carazzo, Simpson, Murphy and Gibbs. They have all been around far longer than Melksham, Zaka, Howlett and Myers, yet most of them look like marathon runners. Judd is about the only one who is really built.
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Judd's a little weed. Strong core etc. etc. etc. but to look at, there's bugger all on him.

Murphy's a solid little unit.
 
Dos23 said:
One of the things I find most baffling about Carlton is the size of their midfielders. Or lack thereof.

Of course we still have some way to go in that area; look no further than Melksham, for example. But I'm referring to players such as Carazzo, Simpson, Murphy and Gibbs. They have all been around far longer than Melksham, Zaka, Howlett and Myers, yet most of them look like marathon runners. Judd is about the only one who is really built.
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Because they have based their gameplan on being quick. So they do alot of running and only Judd plays both an inside and outside role. Generalizing of course.

I sometimes think that perhaps the coaching staff saw our game style under knights realized they were always getting cut up and went the speed route. While the rest of the comp was turning to contested footy. They don't handball as much as us but they used to be seen as a "slow" team, where as now I'd rate them as the fastest team at moving the ball with leg speed. (There are faster teams through actual ball use).
 
Call Me Cake said:
I guess that makes sense. You definitely need your serviceable players along with your key players to get a good mix. Monfries definitely adds to that.

And who knows, now that he's 3 weeks away with an injury, we might get a reality check as to how useful he is to our list (if we hadn't already seen that in the first quarter against Freo).
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Beating Geelong without him proved Watson's usefulness.... ;) Specious.
See how Bob Murphy goes, this time around. Monfries played him very well last year.

I just don't think Walker would be any better with a tall CHF at the helm. I could probably see Garlett and Betts having a little more impact (even though Betts is good at getting his own ball most of the time) - but not Walker. He takes his hangers here and there, and provides a target, but he's a year older than Monfries and doesn't seem like the player that will make any more of an impact than he is already.
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They have a a flaky 6'5" tall forward, and the other defenders go on the ruckman and Walker (a light 6'2"ish flanker).
Did you watch the prelim? Glass on Walker went a loooong way to winning it for WCE.
Bring in a proper CHF, means whichever of Hampson/Warnock/Kreuzer is down there gets the third in line, Walker gets a favourable match-up.
 
Mercurial89 said:
I sometimes think that perhaps the coaching staff saw our game style under knights realized they were always getting cut up and went the speed route. While the rest of the comp was turning to contested footy. They don't handball as much as us but they used to be seen as a "slow" team, where as now I'd rate them as the fastest team at moving the ball with leg speed. (There are faster teams through actual ball use).
Click to expand...

You say this like we aren't a fast moving team now because we're not under Knights - but we are ranked #1 for moving the ball from the kick-in to the forward line, from one end to the other. We are quicker in that aspect than any team in the competition + field kicking efficiency.

Slattery_20 said:
Beating Geelong without him proved Watson's usefulness.... ;) Specious.
See how Bob Murphy goes, this time around. Monfries played him very well last year.
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Haha, I didn't mean it like that. I meant we might actually do worse and lose.. but hopefully not. Otherwise, we might notice a change in our scoring ability, albeit still coming out winners. I'm not worried about the Doggies though, pathetic team. We're probably lucky his injury came at the right time, at least, what with the teams we're playing in the next three weeks (Dogs, Saints, Port)...

Slattery_20 said:
They have a a flaky 6'5" tall forward, and the other defenders go on the ruckman and Walker (a light 6'2"ish flanker).

Did you watch the prelim? Glass on Walker went a loooong way to winning it for WCE. Bring in a proper CHF, means whichever of Hampson/Warnock/Kreuzer is down there gets the third in line, Walker gets a favourable match-up.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Glass is a gun. I think Walker is Carlton's only proper outlook on a proper tall forward. There really isn't much to work with anyway. Hampson is not a forward and neither is Kreuzer. I still have my doubts on Kreuzer tbh, moves like a robot with buckets on his feet.

Not long ago, Monfries was our leading goal kicker. Did he improve with Crameri coming in? Did he improve with Ryder and Hurley making more of an impact up forward? He is still the same player. If anything, it's Davey and Jetta who have taken over and benefiting from this (small forwards in the same way that Garlett and Betts are to Carlton, despite Betts only being the one to match the former two in form). Whilst the Blues would be better off with a proper KPF or two, I just don't think it'll make Walker any more attacking than he already is, which isn't all that much to begin with.

And even then, Carlton would need to get those required KPF's through a deal, because they take much longer to develop... and players like Walker, Judd, Waite, Corrazzo, ect; aren't in the favourable position to wait, and neither is the rest of Carlton's list. Really should have been challenging now, and that's why many percieve Kennedy's move as the straw that ultimately broke the camel's back...
 

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Call Me Cake said:
Not long ago, Monfries was our leading goal kicker. Did he improve with Crameri coming in? Did he improve with Ryder and Hurley making more of an impact up forward? He is still the same player.
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Maybe, maybe not.

His numbers haven't improved, but these days he's only getting the amount of ball that a 5th-in-line type medium bloke should; rather than being asked to be a pseudo-CHF.
I think he's a much more effective player at what he's asked to do.
And (here's the bit that always seems to get lost?) we have a better forward line with him doing solidly in a much more realistic ask; than doing occasionally very well at a ludicrous assignment.

Whilst the Blues would be better off with a proper KPF or two, I just don't think it'll make Walker any more attacking than he already is, which isn't all that much to begin with.
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If they had a CHF his numbers would decline. Markedly. Like Monfries'. He'd have to forego a lot of the entries he gets.
But - and here's the important bit - it'd still make them a better side.

Walker, on a Hurn or Glass, is a very good player.
Walker, on a Glass or McKenzie, is a pop-gun.

Same story with shotgun Williams for the Hawks. Got used to being a pseudo-FF. Kicked a lot less when they had real forwards. Real story is he was just as effective in his role (3rd in line, rather than 1st), and part of a better team.
 
Respect for Andrew Bogut. I thought he spoke very well on EMT. A nice bloke to have around the club.
 

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Umm... he's a footballer who grew up in 1970s Sunbury... why would he not speak like that?

I don't minds Schwaz, I don't take him or his rumours too seriously.

FWIW I would be very very very surprised if Cloke moved. Keep in mind his 2nd manager (the guy who works out his media rights etc) has been talking to Collingwood for at least a month. These negotiations will be at least as complex as the Hurley deal was.
 

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The Non-Essendon Thread V

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