The Perth Thread

[Scotland]

**** me no wonder my ears were burning...

 

[Scotland]

I can safely place my hand on the bible (or any other work of fiction) and state that I have never harmed a cyclist, deliberately or otherwise.

I'd be flat out lying if I said that the thought hadn't crossed my mind, though. If you cycle down Kings Park Rd towards Subiaco, cross the slip lane turn off to Thomas St then go through the lights onto Bagot Rd regardless of what phase they are in then I should be allowed to run you over with a disproportionately sized, impractical 4WD.

 

[kfc1]

I can safely place my hand on the bible (or any other work of fiction) and state that I have never harmed a cyclist, deliberately or otherwise.

I'd be flat out lying if I said that the thought hadn't crossed my mind, though. If you cycle down Kings Park Rd towards Subiaco, cross the slip lane turn off to Thomas St then go through the lights onto Bagot Rd regardless of what phase they are in then I should be allowed to run you over with a disproportionately sized, impractical 4WD.

> Complains when cyclists obey the road rules
> Complains when cyclists break the road rules

 

[Scotland]

> Complains when cyclists obey the road rules

No. Complains when cyclists use the road when they have a (feeble suggestions to the contrary aside) perfectly good cycle path right next to it.

I never claimed they broke any road rules by doing this - which they don't, just that they are dicks - which they are.

 

[kfc1]

If you cycle down Kings Park Rd towards Subiaco, cross the slip lane turn off to Thomas St then go through the lights onto Bagot Rd regardless of what phase they are in then I should be allowed to run you over with a disproportionately sized, impractical 4WD.

Used to go through that intersection a lot, can't say I wasn't half hoping to see a red light runner get their karma. If you're going to ride on the road, obey the bloody road rules, it's not that complicated. Unfortunately there are moron drivers and moron riders.

 

[Nothing]

On the MBR discussion, most groups of cyclists ride counter-clockwise around the river, and most do it in the morning. This is going against the flow of peak hour traffic, on a double lane road. Which is the best choice for a group of cyclists. As has been pointed out, having over 10 cyclists ride along that path together would be incredibly dangerous for the walkers, runners and slower cyclists using that path. There was someone killed a few years ago on a cycle path in Perth because they stepped out in front of a cyclist, who was doing ~30km/hr. In your world, that would happen all the time.

Why do they ride along there? Well the river circuit is ~50km where riding in that direction you can avoid most of the busy roads in Perth in the morning. There are a couple of points (MBR, Stirling Highway near Claremont, Freo bridges) where you can't avoid major arteries, but at least these are going against the flow of peak hour traffic.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

On the MBR discussion, most groups of cyclists ride counter-clockwise around the river, and most do it in the morning. This is going against the flow of peak hour traffic, on a double lane road. Which is the best choice for a group of cyclists. As has been pointed out, having over 10 cyclists ride along that path together would be incredibly dangerous for the walkers, runners and slower cyclists using that path. There was someone killed a few years ago on a cycle path in Perth because they stepped out in front of a cyclist, who was doing ~30km/hr. In your world, that would happen all the time.

Why do they ride along there? Well the river circuit is ~50km where riding in that direction you can avoid most of the busy roads in Perth in the morning. There are a couple of points (MBR, Stirling Highway near Claremont, Freo bridges) where you can't avoid major arteries, but at least these are going against the flow of peak hour traffic.

Why don't cyclists use their bells to warn pedestrians? They get an attitude when you remind them.

 

[kfc1]

Why don't cyclists use their bells to warn pedestrians? They get an attitude when you remind them.

There's a wide variety of reasons so it depends on the individual; some have had bad experiences with pedestrians either abusing them for ringing the bell or doing something erratic after hearing the bell and causing an incident.
My rule of thumb is that I will ring the bell as a courtesy if its going to be a tight squeeze, or the peds are being erratic, but if I'm passing 1m+ away on a wide path or at very low speed I won't bother as the bell potentially causes more issues than it solves.
It is irritating when you get passed close by a faster cyclist with no warning too, as bikes don't have rear view mirrors.

 

[Nothing]

Why don't cyclists use their bells to warn pedestrians? They get an attitude when you remind them.

As KFC says sometimes it creates more issues. Most of the time there's insufficient room or people are unwilling to leave the path. Take that stretch of MBR in question.The cycle path is fine for a cyclist to pass a walker and even if there is another walker or runner coming in the opposite direction it is achievable without too much problem. The problem is trying to fit 10+ cyclists past, in an efficient, safe and timely manner. Walkers wont move (nor should they have to), so you get a concertina-ring of people. Then add another group of 10+ riding into the city and it creates more incidents.

In morning peak hour the groups traveling counter-clockwise are best served to all (except Scotland) to ride on the road.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

As KFC says sometimes it creates more issues. Most of the time there's insufficient room or people are unwilling to leave the path. Take that stretch of MBR in question.The cycle path is fine for a cyclist to pass a walker and even if there is another walker or runner coming in the opposite direction it is achievable without too much problem. The problem is trying to fit 10+ cyclists past, in an efficient, safe and timely manner. Walkers wont move (nor should they have to), so you get a concertina-ring of people. Then add another group of 10+ riding into the city and it creates more incidents.

In morning peak hour the groups traveling counter-clockwise are best served to all (except Scotland) to ride on the road.

Are the groups using cycling for transport, or are they training?

 

[kfc1]

Are the groups using cycling for transport, or are they training?

Both.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Both.

How many conflicts would be avoided if the people doing it for training went somewhere else? I'm assuming that group would represent a fair proportion of the cyclists moving at speed.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Lets all lay off Scotland, he makes some valid points and is probably a fair reflection on most driver's attitude towards cyclists.

The point we can all agree on is most of the cycle paths around perth are inadequate and this causes frustration with all road users.

Yeah- I was only joking, Scotland Hope you weren't offended by my last remark

 

[Kram]

 

[Teriyakicat]

Where'd you find that pic of me???

 

[kfc1]

How many conflicts would be avoided if the people doing it for training went somewhere else? I'm assuming that group would represent a fair proportion of the cyclists moving at speed.

Scotland is going to report back so we can see how many seconds he would save each week. That should give you your answer.

 

[Off The Couch]

Some bike riders with some serious anger management issues in this thread

 

[Nothing]

How many conflicts would be avoided if the people doing it for training went somewhere else? I'm assuming that group would represent a fair proportion of the cyclists moving at speed.

There really aren't that many places to ride. You might not think so, but they are utilising one of the better circuits for a 50km ride near the city. I'd be interested if you could map out a route that you feel is suitable for 20+ cyclists to ride at 6.30am. Back streets are out, because everyone is using them to pull out to head to work. Major arteries are out because you affect traffic. Cycle paths (for the most part) are inappropriate for that sized group.

Some bike riders with some serious anger management issues in this thread

The only people I've seen with "serious anger management issues" in this thread are the occasional motorist. Could you point out these posts?

 

[kfc1]

I assumed she was referring to me.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

There really aren't that many places to ride. You might not think so, but they are utilising one of the better circuits for a 50km ride near the city. I'd be interested if you could map out a route that you feel is suitable for 20+ cyclists to ride at 6.30am. Back streets are out, because everyone is using them to pull out to head to work. Major arteries are out because you affect traffic. Cycle paths (for the most part) are inappropriate for that sized group.

Perhaps you could map out a similar route on road for the amateur car and motorcycle racing enthusiasts.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the racers go to a track or get on a treadmill?

 

[Off The Couch]

The only people I've seen with "serious anger management issues" in this thread are the occasional motorist. Could you point out these posts?

I'm not going to lie, I'm a card carrying Lycra hater - they shit me no end.

I live in the City of Vincent and have seen over a million dollars of our rates poured into bike ways to make the CofV a safer place to ride and for what - to hear they aren't up to scratch because of the fear of car doors and them not being wide enough. I don't know what bikers expect tbh - how about cars just get the hell off the roads and we leave it to the Lycra set to fund the upkeep.

In saying that - being a former motor bike rider, I give them the respect required to make their journey a safe one - it doesn't mean I have to like it.

How's that for an anger management award

 

[Nothing]

Perhaps you could map out a similar route on road for the amateur car and motorcycle racing enthusiasts.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the racers go to a track or get on a treadmill?

There are no tracks that are suitable to road cycling. A treadmill (stationary trainer) is not viable for groups and as mentioned they often use these rides as transit as well. If they sat on the "treadmill" for 2 hours they weoyuld still need to ride to work. Or are you suggesting they then drive?

I'm not going to lie, I'm a card carrying Lycra hater - they shit me no end.

I live in the City of Vincent and have seen over a million dollars of our rates poured into bike ways to make the CofV a safer place to ride and for what - to hear they aren't up to scratch because of the fear of car doors and them not being wide enough. I don't know what bikers expect tbh - how about cars just get the hell off the roads and we leave it to the Lycra set to fund the upkeep.

In saying that - being a former motor bike rider, I give them the respect required to make their journey a safe one - it doesn't mean I have to like it.

How's that for an anger management award

I too live in the CoV. Unlike you I think it's fantastic that an inner city council is taking the steps to separate bike LANES. The issue is that car drivers still don't respect them as a lane that they are not meant to be in. As such, they will park in them, pull out from drives across them, open car doors into them (would you open a car door onto a car lane without looking).

 

[Reginald Perrin]

There are no tracks that are suitable to road cycling. A treadmill (stationary trainer) is not viable for groups and as mentioned they often use these rides as transit as well. If they sat on the "treadmill" for 2 hours they weoyuld still need to ride to work. Or are you suggesting they then drive?

You don't like the use of the term treadmill? Is it too hamsterish?

I'm suggesting they appreciate the multi-use aspect of the asset they are riding on and leave the racing to other venues. If they can't find any, they know what to do.

 

[kfc1]

Perhaps you could map out a similar route on road for the amateur car and motorcycle racing enthusiasts.

Those guys have their own routes they like to use. Routes to Bindoon, York, Mundaring Weir etc are popular with the motorcyclists and Lancelin with the cars. What's your point?

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the racers go to a track or get on a treadmill?

Yes, it would be. As long as they are obeying the road rules, there's no reason why they shouldn't be using whatever road or path they want, like any other road user.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Those guys have their own routes they like to use. Routes to Bindoon, York, Mundaring Weir etc are popular with the motorcyclists and Lancelin with the cars. What's your point?

For a start, those locations aren't in the city.

Yes, it would be. As long as they are obeying the road rules, there's no reason why they shouldn't be using whatever road or path they want, like any other road user.

So what you're suggesting is that we need to introduce speed limits for cyclists?